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Elements the Game => Cards => Fire => Topic started by: Kamietsu on January 29, 2010, 12:26:58 am

Title: Immolation | Cremation
Post by: Kamietsu on January 29, 2010, 12:26:58 am
(http://elementscommunity.org/images/Cards/Immolation.png)(http://elementscommunity.org/images/Cards/Upgrade.png)(http://elementscommunity.org/images/Cards/Cremation.png)

Discuss
Title: Re: Immolation/Cremation
Post by: bsurma on February 23, 2010, 05:15:47 pm
This is one of the most useful cards in mono fire decks. 7+11 quanta (or 9+11) is REALLY huge. After cremating a small Photon or Brimstone Eater, you can summon almost instantly a Lava Golem or a giant Crimson Dragon.

Title: Re: Immolation/Cremation
Post by: Glorioustickman on March 01, 2010, 03:18:09 am
I had a Fire deck once, and this was really useful in my opinion. Like Bsurma said, you can cremate a Photon and use the profit for a Crimson Dragon.
Title: Re: Immolation/Cremation
Post by: plastiqe on March 01, 2010, 08:07:26 pm
Fire's best combo card, you can pull off some wicked first turns if you pull the right opening hand.  The downside, like any combo is that it takes more than one card to work effectively.  When you don't have a creature to blow up it sucks holding two or three of these in your hand.

Also, this is a great counter for fire if you're having trouble with pillar denial.
Title: Re: Immolation/Cremation
Post by: SirElven on April 02, 2010, 05:27:46 pm
This is so awesome when you can chain out 2 pheonix's turn 1.
Title: Re: Immolation/Cremation
Post by: yaladilae on April 02, 2010, 10:03:29 pm
my favorite card for fire

makes fire duo deck not needing burning pillar at all
Title: Re: Immolation | Cremation
Post by: TheOwner on September 15, 2010, 03:16:12 pm
I love the Cremation + Supernova + Phoenix, rush it offers a lot of power and options.
Title: Re: Immolation | Cremation
Post by: Immolation on September 24, 2010, 11:41:12 pm
I just love Immolation. And...



FIRE


Title: Re: Immolation | Cremation
Post by: 9jacob4 on September 27, 2010, 07:57:27 am
the cremation card would open up lots of new card sombos
Title: Re: Immolation | Cremation
Post by: Numnut on October 12, 2010, 04:47:00 pm
Has anybody thought of making this card an attack item?  Being able to cremate an opponents creature would be very useful.  You could make the owner of the creature be the one to always receive the quanta, or you could make whoever used the card receive the quanta.
Title: Re: Immolation | Cremation
Post by: miniwally on October 12, 2010, 05:36:15 pm
Has anybody thought of making this card an attack item?  Being able to cremate an opponents creature would be very useful.  You could make the owner of the creature be the one to always receive the quanta, or you could make whoever used the card receive the quanta.
Cards that do not take the creatures HP into account before killing them have already been said never to be put into the game by zanz.
Title: Re: Immolation | Cremation
Post by: Numnut on October 12, 2010, 05:48:42 pm

Cards that do not take the creatures HP into account before killing them have already been said never to be put into the game by zanz.
I'm glad that doesn't apply to our own creatures at least.  I've had to immolate my own golems when they get antimattered at high levels.   
Title: Re: Immolation | Cremation
Post by: asymmetry on October 12, 2010, 05:51:21 pm
Has anybody thought of making this card an attack item?  Being able to cremate an opponents creature would be very useful.  You could make the owner of the creature be the one to always receive the quanta, or you could make whoever used the card receive the quanta.
Cards that do not take the creatures HP into account before killing them have already been said never to be put into the game by zanz.
Exception: Shockwave on frozen creature.
Title: Re: Immolation | Cremation
Post by: Numnut on October 12, 2010, 07:48:12 pm
I also just saw a post from Scared Girl in the card creation area that mentioned how mutation can kill a creature regardless of HP/Damage.  So the cards exist in game, I think it's all a question of power for the card. Where shockwave/freeze requires two cards and an existing condition.  For cremation I think it would stay balanced so long as the quanta went to the owner of the creature, and not just the player of the card.
Title: Re: Immolation | Cremation
Post by: smuglapse on October 12, 2010, 08:10:17 pm
I also just saw a post from Scared Girl in the card creation area that mentioned how mutation can kill a creature regardless of HP/Damage.  So the cards exist in game, I think it's all a question of power for the card. Where shockwave/freeze requires two cards and an existing condition.  For cremation I think it would stay balanced so long as the quanta went to the owner of the creature, and not just the player of the card.
For many decks you face, the quanta gain would be useless, so that is pretty far from balanced.
Title: Re: Immolation | Cremation
Post by: Colloray on November 20, 2010, 08:03:43 pm
Cremation (not immolation) shud burn 1 of the opponent's quantums 4 each element other than fire and give them 9 fire quantum wen used on them exept wen they'r fire themselvs; then the thing they al ready do.

Cremation (not immolation) on opponet:
 :aether, :air, :darkness, :death, :earth, :entropy, :gravity, :life, :light, :time, :water = lose one of each element, get 9 fire quantums
 :fire = get one of each element, get 9 fire quantums
Title: Re: Immolation | Cremation
Post by: Numnut on November 21, 2010, 07:32:44 pm
Cremation (not immolation) shud burn 1 of the opponent's quantums 4 each element other than fire and give them 9 fire quantum wen used on them exept wen they'r fire themselvs; then the thing they al ready do.

Cremation (not immolation) on opponet:
 :aether, :air, :darkness, :death, :earth, :entropy, :gravity, :life, :light, :time, :water = lose one of each element, get 9 fire quantums
 :fire = get one of each element, get 9 fire quantums
That would be interesting.  Not sure how the coding would work for that, though.
Title: Re: Immolation | Cremation
Post by: wildgoldenpk on May 03, 2011, 07:04:59 am
This card should cost a few  :fire
Title: Immolation | Cremation
Post by: ~Napalm on October 05, 2011, 05:09:01 am
(http://i51.tinypic.com/6gxxyu.png)

Discuss.
Title: Re: Immolation | Cremation
Post by: Xenocidius on October 05, 2011, 05:46:50 am
To be honest, this seems to be an attempt to cut off some of Fire's rush power, pushing it even further towards the stall direction. And Fire should never be a stall element.
Title: Re: Immolation | Cremation
Post by: furballdn on October 05, 2011, 05:50:50 am
The main nerf that this change does is that phoenixes are nerfed. You can no longer drop one phoenix per immolation. While it is a pretty big nerf, it's not that bad, and some phoenix immolation decks are still playable if you change the number of phoenixes and have a mark of fire or something.
Title: Re: Immolation | Cremation
Post by: willng3 on October 05, 2011, 06:00:29 am
It barely affects Cremation rushes and Immo rushes now turn back to Golems to maintain their speed. 

Yes, this was mainly intended to nerf the potential of Phoenixes which were *possibly* too strong originally.  Not exactly the end of the world, the creature's still hard as heck to put down and hits the field fast.
Title: Re: Immolation | Cremation
Post by: Rember on October 05, 2011, 06:09:27 am
RIP  :fire

We had good times together.
Title: Re: Immolation | Cremation
Post by: ~Napalm on October 05, 2011, 06:14:50 am
Can haz Ash Eater buff nao? ::)
Title: Re: Immolation | Cremation
Post by: Contrary on October 05, 2011, 06:27:56 am
Kind of disappointing, I thought the Phoenix Immolation synergy was really cool, and this shuts down a lot of creative decks that used that (Soul Catcher Immolation for example). I think Grabbix won't work so well anymore but I imagine Ubah Stompy will probably be fine minus a Fire Spirit or whatever. I mean it may have a larger effect than I'm estimating but I think Nova Immolation decks will be just as strong.

I kind of wish they let Fire be super master rusher and just nerfed it in other ways (I thought the Deflag nerf was a good step).
Title: Re: Immolation | Cremation
Post by: Sevs on October 05, 2011, 06:34:36 am
Can haz Ash Eater buff nao? ::)
that would be awesome
Title: Re: Immolation | Cremation
Post by: furballdn on October 06, 2011, 01:14:26 am
Can haz Ash Eater buff nao? ::)
Ash eater now generates 7 :fire per turn.
Title: Re: Immolation | Cremation
Post by: Holokausti on October 06, 2011, 06:17:00 am
Bye bye Grabbix, you will be missed.
Title: Re: Immolation | Cremation
Post by: zombie0 on October 07, 2011, 02:29:58 pm
this guts my pillarless lava deck so much.  i cannot express how serious a difference the one :fire made

1)  able to play 2nd golem second turn off turn one cremation
2)  able to play cremation for 6 point fire lance with the one :fire from the previous turn
3)  able to play golem x1 minor phoenix x2
4)  able to absorb black hole with 1 extra :fire to use
5)  better able to fight off discord

combined with explosion nerf, ouch  :(  cremation was the one card players could use better than AI, this reduces player advantage relatively (AI always has quantum advantage with 2x 3x mark)

like others have said, fire stall suffers not at all.  no idea what format developers are basing nerf/buffs around.  anyone know?  platinum arena?  1v1 duels?  themed forum events?  nerf golem rush but not :entropy rainbow, life, or graboid rushes?  so random...
Title: Re: Immolation | Cremation
Post by: Djhopper :) on October 07, 2011, 04:09:58 pm
Could grabbix be saved?

by Djhopper :)
Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 58u 58u 58u 58u 58u 58u 590 590 590 590 590 590 5f9 5f9 5f9 5f9 5f9 5f9 5fc 5fc 5fc 5fc 5fc 5fc 8pm


I reckon this could be tweaked to work.

Come help me tweak it!

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,27783.0.html

(It's under PvP decks)

Title: Re: Immolation | Cremation
Post by: Pineapple on October 07, 2011, 09:25:59 pm
Could grabbix be saved?

I reckon this could be tweaked to work.

Come help me tweak it!
/end off-topic (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32117.msg434631#msg434631)
Title: Re: Immolation | Cremation
Post by: jmdt on October 07, 2011, 10:34:12 pm
You know...everyone says fire should be about speed, but why?  Fire's deal is destruction.  This works 3 fold in this game and similar in other games as well.  1.) destroying creatures and permanents with recless abandon.  2.) Having high capibilities for large direct damage to the opponent. 3.) Have strong but slightly expensive creatures.

None of those 3 ideas leads me to think of :fire as a speed element.  Immolation adds speed to :fire, but control and direct damage really should be fire's big thing; the thing that sets it apart.  The thing that made :fire so hard to counter was that it could both rush and stall with the best of other elements.  Fire should not be the best at stalling, nor should it be the best at rushing, but it should have a fence around control and damage growth (be it direct or from big critters). 

Elements like :light should always stall better and elements like :life should always rush better.  :fire has been too good at too many things and spoiled people.  I promise this change is best for the game.
Title: Re: Immolation | Cremation
Post by: Acsabi44 on October 10, 2011, 03:06:58 pm
... You know...everyone says fire should be about speed, but why?  Fire's deal is destruction.  This works 3 fold in this game and similar in other games as well...
...None of those 3 ideas leads me to think of :fire as a speed element.
Please check out Red in MtG. Red is indeed about speed.
IMO  :fire is the closest thing Elements should have to Red.
 :fire should be about speed.
Title: Re: Immolation | Cremation
Post by: ndclub on October 10, 2011, 04:40:39 pm
You know...everyone says fire should be about speed, but why?  Fire's deal is destruction.  This works 3 fold in this game and similar in other games as well.  1.) destroying creatures and permanents with recless abandon.  2.) Having high capibilities for large direct damage to the opponent. 3.) Have strong but slightly expensive creatures.

None of those 3 ideas leads me to think of :fire as a speed element.  Immolation adds speed to :fire, but control and direct damage really should be fire's big thing; the thing that sets it apart.  The thing that made :fire so hard to counter was that it could both rush and stall with the best of other elements.  Fire should not be the best at stalling, nor should it be the best at rushing, but it should have a fence around control and damage growth (be it direct or from big critters). 

Elements like :light should always stall better and elements like :life should always rush better.  :fire has been too good at too many things and spoiled people.  I promise this change is best for the game.
Literally agree on every point here. Not just because I wanted to see fire a little less dominant, but because like other posts here he is backing it up with reasons.
Title: Re: Immolation | Cremation
Post by: The_Mormegil on October 10, 2011, 04:46:52 pm
You know...everyone says fire should be about speed, but why?  Fire's deal is destruction.  This works 3 fold in this game and similar in other games as well.  1.) destroying creatures and permanents with recless abandon.  2.) Having high capibilities for large direct damage to the opponent. 3.) Have strong but slightly expensive creatures.

None of those 3 ideas leads me to think of :fire as a speed element.  Immolation adds speed to :fire, but control and direct damage really should be fire's big thing; the thing that sets it apart.  The thing that made :fire so hard to counter was that it could both rush and stall with the best of other elements.  Fire should not be the best at stalling, nor should it be the best at rushing, but it should have a fence around control and damage growth (be it direct or from big critters). 

Elements like :light should always stall better and elements like :life should always rush better.  :fire has been too good at too many things and spoiled people.  I promise this change is best for the game.
This largely depends on our interpretation of the game. While our single views may or may not be correct, as in they may or may not be shared by zanzarino, many people that loved Fire grew attached to its rush capacity. Stallier players normally do not like Fire (the element of reckless destruction) as much. Which of course leads to a good deal of whining towards this change, not just for the obvious reasons of "OMG y u nerfed my dek!!!!!" but also for flavor reasons.
Title: Re: Immolation | Cremation
Post by: OldTrees on October 10, 2011, 06:40:47 pm
... You know...everyone says fire should be about speed, but why?  Fire's deal is destruction.  This works 3 fold in this game and similar in other games as well...
...None of those 3 ideas leads me to think of :fire as a speed element.
Please check out Red in MtG. Red is indeed about speed.
IMO  :fire is the closest thing Elements should have to Red.
 :fire should be about speed.
Red is about Impulse and Chaos. This means Reactions (Instants), Haste (Haste), Energy (Bolt) and more. Red can do decent damage based stalling through reactions and energy (Fire Stall).

EtG =/= MtG (Green =/= Life)

Fire should be about destruction.
Title: Re: Immolation | Cremation
Post by: Contrary on October 13, 2011, 01:25:51 am
I thought Fire was about mutual destruction, hurting yourself to hurt your opponent. About sacrificing for more damage. That why Fire cards have shitty health and you have stuff like Rage Potion and Immolation- really I think immolation is the most thematically appropriate card for fire. I don't really mind Fire being good at rushing. I mean it's not like Life only rushes! The are masters of cheap spam and healing as well.

And besides its stalling abilities are taking massive nerfs.
Title: Re: Immolation | Cremation
Post by: rowcla on October 19, 2011, 11:58:04 am
really hate this, it doesnt make much difference to me as i have cremations but stacks of people I know are running immo pheonix rushes, which this completely kills off as they cant immo into a pheonix now, I guess it was a pretty powerful card but nonetheless...
Title: Re: Immolation | Cremation
Post by: Anarook on January 05, 2012, 01:35:43 am
WTH, its been nerfed!
This screws over so many newer player rush decks!
Terrible decission!
Title: Re: Immolation | Cremation
Post by: furballdn on January 05, 2012, 01:43:40 am
WTH, its been nerfed!
This screws over so many newer player rush decks!
Terrible decission!
Someone's late~
It got nerfed in 1.29, so you can't summon a phoenix immediately after using an immolation. There are some builds around it like 1.29 grabbix though.
Title: Re: Immolation | Cremation
Post by: Anarook on January 05, 2012, 01:46:45 am
yeah, been away a while, I hang out on forums instead of playing.
Went to play today and noticed something was very, very wrong...
still, Terrible idea!
Title: Re: Immolation | Cremation
Post by: furballdn on January 05, 2012, 01:52:37 am
yeah, been away a while, I hang out on forums instead of playing.
Went to play today and noticed something was very, very wrong...
still, Terrible idea!
It was nerfed because it really is quite powerful in an unupped environment. One photon, boom, suddenly a phoenix.
Title: Re: Immolation | Cremation
Post by: glennfoo on February 28, 2012, 11:05:03 pm
ya sad... it really slows players down a lot.... so many fire cards got nerfed
Title: Re: Immolation | Cremation
Post by: LD_Raine on April 20, 2012, 12:28:52 am
What was this card before it got nerfed?
Title: Re: Immolation | Cremation
Post by: furballdn on April 20, 2012, 12:29:55 am
What was this card before it got nerfed?
Generate 7 :fire | 9 :fire along with 1 of each element.
Title: Re: Immolation | Cremation
Post by: Chapuz on February 09, 2013, 12:07:32 am
This is a very useful card but they keep making it weaker.
It has been nerfed because immophoenix was totally OP. You could make heavy damage by turn 1-2 with just photons, immos and phoenixes
Title: Re: Immolation | Cremation
Post by: cowPICKLE on March 02, 2013, 12:28:08 am
Immoliation + OVVVVVEEEEEERRRRRR POOOOOOOWWWWWWEEEEERRRRED IT gives you 6  :fire and 1 :aether :air :darkness :death :earth :entropy :gravity :life :light :time :water


ERMEHGURD
Title: Re: Immolation | Cremation
Post by: Andermani on April 06, 2013, 01:09:46 am
Is it just me, or does the AI not understand the joy of using immo on a phoenix? I tested an arena deck using immo and phoenix as well as photon, and it never used immo on phoenix; always waited to get a photon.
Title: Re: Immolation | Cremation
Post by: blarp on April 06, 2013, 06:57:21 am
Is it just me, or does the AI not understand the joy of using immo on a phoenix? I tested an arena deck using immo and phoenix as well as photon, and it never used immo on phoenix; always waited to get a photon.

ai has a lot of issues :P
Title: Re: Immolation | Cremation
Post by: Embrada on June 22, 2013, 06:15:47 am
if you have a bunch of low cost cards you use Immoliation to put a few ash eaters or something in play
Title: Re: Immolation | Cremation
Post by: Chapuz on June 22, 2013, 02:15:25 pm
if you have a bunch of low cost cards you use Immoliation to put a few ash eaters or something in play
Actually, the most common uses of immolation are with Photons/Gnome riders + Lava golems. Ash eaters use to be too expensive to immolate and too weak for main attackers.
Title: Re: Immolation | Cremation
Post by: BeefSupreme on June 23, 2013, 08:38:52 am
if you have a bunch of low cost cards you use Immoliation to put a few ash eaters or something in play
Actually, the most common uses of immolation are with Photons/Gnome riders + Lava golems. Ash eaters use to be too expensive to immolate and too weak for main attackers.
They just sit around, eat ash, and generate quanta.

EDIT: They generate quanta, right?  ?_?
Title: Re: Immolation | Cremation
Post by: kaempfer13 on June 23, 2013, 10:20:08 am
if you have a bunch of low cost cards you use Immoliation to put a few ash eaters or something in play
Actually, the most common uses of immolation are with Photons/Gnome riders + Lava golems. Ash eaters use to be too expensive to immolate and too weak for main attackers.
They just sit around, eat ash, and generate quanta.

EDIT: They generate quanta, right?  ?_?
Only if they are feeded with brimstones.
blarg: