*Author

Offline CuCN

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1756
  • Reputation Power: 25
  • CuCN is a proud Wyrm taking wing for the first time.CuCN is a proud Wyrm taking wing for the first time.CuCN is a proud Wyrm taking wing for the first time.CuCN is a proud Wyrm taking wing for the first time.CuCN is a proud Wyrm taking wing for the first time.
  • Toxic
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 5th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 4th Birthday Cake
Re: Looking for Bias in RNG... (Testing) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=52956.msg1117239#msg1117239
« Reply #12 on: December 25, 2013, 05:53:07 am »
The nymph bug is unrelated. The problem there is that the 50% chance of a respin for nymphs was not applied to Purple Nymphs.

Offline KeepsTopic starter

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 440
  • Reputation Power: 9
  • Keeps is a Spark waiting for a buff.
  • New to Elements
Re: Looking for Bias in RNG... (Testing) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=52956.msg1117241#msg1117241
« Reply #13 on: December 25, 2013, 06:01:40 am »
Still there is a seed bias one way or the other, confirmed by adobe.  Along with the function not being secure, but this is just a game so whatever on that crypto side.

Offline TribalTrouble

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2000
  • Country: us
  • Reputation Power: 23
  • TribalTrouble is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.TribalTrouble is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.TribalTrouble is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.TribalTrouble is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 10th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 8th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 6th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 5th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 4th Birthday Cake
Re: Looking for Bias in RNG... (Testing) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=52956.msg1117267#msg1117267
« Reply #14 on: December 25, 2013, 01:05:05 pm »
*Zanzarino sees thread about looking for Bias in the RNG* *Waits a year or so* *Changes chances to be opposite of what they were when the testing started* :P

Good luck guys. :)

Offline CuCN

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1756
  • Reputation Power: 25
  • CuCN is a proud Wyrm taking wing for the first time.CuCN is a proud Wyrm taking wing for the first time.CuCN is a proud Wyrm taking wing for the first time.CuCN is a proud Wyrm taking wing for the first time.CuCN is a proud Wyrm taking wing for the first time.
  • Toxic
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 5th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 4th Birthday Cake
Re: Looking for Bias in RNG... (Testing) https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=52956.msg1117496#msg1117496
« Reply #15 on: December 27, 2013, 06:35:54 am »
The math.random() function in action script produces the same seed pattern so there is a seed pattern.
Still there is a seed bias one way or the other, confirmed by adobe.
Where was this confirmed?
Quote
In addition, if Zanz did not build the function correctly, he can build a strong bias in effect doubling the odds for one particular result,  just like the old nymph bug.
An incorrectly built function can affect odds even without a biased RNG (e.g. nymph bug).
Quote
Adobe has replaced the function starting with Flash version 11 see:
http://help.adobe.com/en_US/FlashPlatform/beta/reference/actionscript/3/flash/crypto/package.html
Math.random() is still listed in the "related functions" from your link, and neither this page or the one for Math.random() indicate anything about it being replaced. generateRandomBytes() returns a ByteArray and uses "cryptographically strong functions provided by the operating system", while Math.random() returns a Number and "is calculated in an undisclosed manner".
Quote
So what does this mean?
It means, random is far from random in this game, not even close to a decent pseudo random.  It means one person might have great 'luck' with a deck while another person does not.  It also means, you can force a deck to play better over short bursts than long bursts.  In other-words, a person playing 10 games a day might continuously win with a deck, while a person playing 100 games, might win the first 10, but not the next 20 or 30 because the more you play the more likely you will have bad draws, if you have a deck that continuously draws well the first 5 or 10 games you play it.

It means, that certain cards are more or less effective any given game, and depending on how zanz built this, the results are completely predictable.
This doesn't sound like what an improperly seeded pRNG would result in, but I can't really tell until I know what the nature of the seed bias being claimed is.

 

blarg: