*Author

Offline EspithelTopic starter

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2705
  • Reputation Power: 0
  • Espithel hides under a Cloak.
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 11th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 10th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 9th Birthday CakeGive us the video.Slice of Elements 7th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 6th Birthday CakeZanz Christmas Present Competition - Winner
What is the strongest possible Elements card? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67176.msg1289065#msg1289065
« on: May 13, 2019, 12:41:32 am »
This is a thought experiment I've had on my hiatus from here, while designing other card games. What is the strongest possible card in Elements? This is more of a philosophical exploration of what constitutes "power" in a card game, because there are several approaches one could take to answer that question.

Obviously, there are cards that can claim to be the "strongest", such as Sundial being a ridiculous defensive option, Fractal single-handedly winning games, and Nova being astronomically efficient for its generation...
But Sundial, Fractal, and Nova are all non-comparable: They are put into different decks for different reasons and do different things. Surely, the strongest card would be supreme to all other obvious - without question.

Here are the rules:
- You can invent any new mechanic you want. We don't care if the card even works.
- The textbox can be as crammed as you want. We don't care if the card even fits on an elements card.

So, let's start simple. You're probably thinking of four very simple, elegant words right now:


But, we can go one better. What if you don't draw the card?



Now, we've degenerated the game into a coinflip. Whoever goes first casts this card and wins. But, even this can be made stronger.



This is where things get weird. This card is obviously "stronger" than the above card.
However, think about the previous iteration. Both players would obviously play 6 copies of that card, because why wouldn't they?
What happens if two of this card is cast at the same time?

Either:
1) The person who goes first resolves their copy before or after the other player. This is more powerful in the sense it wins "quicker", but the result is the exact same as the previous iteration.
2) All players play and resolve their copy at the same time, resulting in either a draw or nothing happening. This is blatantly weaker than the previous iteration.

However, even still, we can go one stronger.



Now you don't even have to put the card in your deck! You just automatically win! Take that, Plat decks!
... Except this doesn't deal with the problem. Both players have equal access to this card, meaning that this card results in a draw, or absolutely nothing.

And, finally, do you want to know a card stronger than this?



...We've come full circle. This is stronger than the previous iteration because the previous iteration makes the game either a draw, or does absolutely nothing. This card does something if it doesn't draw, and is an answer to the "do we get to play a game or not" mindgames meta of "is this card in your possession or not", should it draw.

But, can we get even stronger? Yes, most likely.

I'm going to leave this here for everyone else to chime in.
If this sparks a good discussion, then maybe we'll do other topics like "What is the longest possible Elements effect text?" or "What is the most average card possible?" or "What if there were 50 elements?" I'd be interested to see how this goes.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2019, 12:43:36 am by Espithel »

Offline andretimpa

  • Master of Gravity
  • *
  • ******
  • Posts: 3812
  • Country: br
  • Reputation Power: 58
  • andretimpa is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.andretimpa is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.andretimpa is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.andretimpa is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.andretimpa is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.andretimpa is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.andretimpa is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.andretimpa is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.andretimpa is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.andretimpa is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.andretimpa is truly a Titan, worthy of respect and acknowledgement.
  • OMG how did I get here I'm not good with computers
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 12th Birthday Cake14th Trials - Master of GravitySong of the Day Tourney Most Creative DeckSlice of Elements 11th Birthday Cake13th Trials - Master of GravitySlice of Elements 10th Birthday CakeArt Competition - RedecoratingSlice of Elements 9th Birthday CakeArt Competition: MS Paint #9 WinnerArt Competition: League of the Battle Champion WinnerArt Competition: Foil ArtWeekly Tournament WinnerSlice of Elements 8th Birthday CakeArt Competition: Paint With Elements - The Elemental AvatarsSlice of Elements 7th Birthday CakeCompetition - A Challenge of Challenges1st Place WC Winner: October 20151st Place Weekly Challenge Winner: September 2015Weekly Design August 2015 - GoldWeekly Design July 2015 - SilverSlice of Elements 6th Birthday CakeForum Brawl #4 WinnerPaint with Elements Competition WinnerSlice of Elements 5th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament WinnerSlice of Elements 4th Birthday Cake
Re: What is the strongest possible Elements card? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67176.msg1289074#msg1289074
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2019, 04:18:47 am »
Card Name: Bring back Frozengaia
Effect: If this card is in your possession you win, even if your opponent has one copy of this. Don't ask.

Do I win?
Every time a graboid evolves, an elemental gets his wings.
:gravity Guild (old), War 9 & 13 (gen) / :time Brawl 2 & 3, War 7 & 14 / :death War 8 & 12 / :fire Brawl 4 / :entropy Brawl 5 / :darkness War 10

Offline Zso_Zso

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1682
  • Country: ca
  • Reputation Power: 23
  • Zso_Zso is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.Zso_Zso is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.Zso_Zso is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.Zso_Zso is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.
  • ghost of a past wizzard
  • Awards: Weekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament Winner 2019.10.26Weekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament Winner - June 29Weekly Tournament WinnerSlice of Elements 10th Birthday CakeGold Donor7th Trials - Master of LightSlice of Elements 4th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerSlice of Elements 3rd Birthday Cake
Re: What is the strongest possible Elements card? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67176.msg1289107#msg1289107
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2019, 04:15:10 pm »

Card Name: There Can Be Only One!
Effect: If this card is in your possession you win every game instantly.

Simple twist: the card is unique, only one player can own it!


Roses aren't red, Violets aren't blue.
They are just a simulation, and so are you!

Offline DoubleCapitals

  • Master of Earth
  • *
  • Posts: 747
  • Country: sg
  • Reputation Power: 27
  • DoubleCapitals is a proud Wyrm taking wing for the first time.DoubleCapitals is a proud Wyrm taking wing for the first time.DoubleCapitals is a proud Wyrm taking wing for the first time.DoubleCapitals is a proud Wyrm taking wing for the first time.DoubleCapitals is a proud Wyrm taking wing for the first time.
  • *whistle*
  • Awards: 14th Trials - Master of EarthSlice of Elements 11th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 10th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 9th Birthday Cake11th Trials - Master of TimeSlice of Elements 8th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 6th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 4th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 3rd Birthday Cake
Re: What is the strongest possible Elements card? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67176.msg1289109#msg1289109
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2019, 04:32:29 pm »



The 6 Infinity Shards are the non spells (ie. :gravity:earth:life:water:air:darkness). It should say unique Infinity shard btw
L R L R STOP & DASH & UP & TALK B B A B S(tart)

Offline InsignificantWeeaboo

  • Newsletter Writer
  • *
  • ****
  • *
  • Posts: 798
  • Country: us
  • Reputation Power: 15
  • InsignificantWeeaboo is a Blue Crawler starting to think about his first run.InsignificantWeeaboo is a Blue Crawler starting to think about his first run.InsignificantWeeaboo is a Blue Crawler starting to think about his first run.
  • Ah, I see you're a man of culture as well.
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 10th Birthday CakeWriting Competition: Draw Seven WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerCard Design Competition - The Oracle's New Year's Party WinnerWriting Competition: Haphazard Heroics WinnerDeckbuilding Competition - The Mastery Gauntlet WinnerWriting Competition: H.E.A.T. WinnerSlice of Elements 9th Birthday Cake
Re: What is the strongest possible Elements card? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67176.msg1289110#msg1289110
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2019, 04:58:30 pm »
The 6 Infinity Shards are the non spells (ie. :gravity:earth:life:water:air:darkness). It should say unique Infinity shard btw

On one hand, it's debatable on whether or not :earth is a spell. On the other hand, there probably weren't enough non-spells to make 6
O-oooooooooo AAAAE-A-A-I-A-U-JO-oooooooooooo AAE-O-A-A-U-U-A-E-eee-ee-eee AAAAE-A-E-I-E-A-JO-ooo-oo-oo-oo EEEEO-A-AAA-AAAA
Team :gravity Gen. (War #12)
Team :gravity Soldier (War #13)
Team :light Soldier (War #14)

Offline MasterWalks

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 559
  • Country: us
  • Reputation Power: 0
  • MasterWalks hides under a Cloak.
  • 12 year old mobile gamer
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 13th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 12th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament Winner (2020.12.06.)Slice of Elements 11th Birthday CakeWar #13 Winner - Team DarknessSlice of Elements 10th Birthday CakeWriting Competition: The Elemental Cookbook - A Compendium and Comprehensive Compilation of Culinary Creations WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerBronze DonorTeam Deckbuilding/Writing Competition - A Matter of Logistics Winner
Re: What is the strongest possible Elements card? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67176.msg1289113#msg1289113
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2019, 05:31:59 pm »
I see your 6 card win condition and raise you a 5 card win condition

X4
+
X1
:gravity War 12
:darkness War 13
:fire War 14
Credit to Wyand for Profile Picture

Offline dawn to dusk

  • Master of Light
  • *
  • ******
  • Posts: 2693
  • Country: aq
  • Reputation Power: 53
  • dawn to dusk brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.dawn to dusk brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.dawn to dusk brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.dawn to dusk brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.dawn to dusk brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.dawn to dusk brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.dawn to dusk brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.dawn to dusk brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.dawn to dusk brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.dawn to dusk brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.
  • Awards: 14th Trials - Master of LightSlice of Elements 11th Birthday Cake13th Trials - Master of LightWar #12 - Sportsmanship AwardSlice of Elements 10th Birthday CakeCard Design Competition - The Fool Winner12th Trials - Master of LightDeckbuilding Competition - Elelections WinnerSlice of Elements 7th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Design July 2015 - Bronze9th Trials - Master of LifeWeekly Tournament WinnerSlice of Elements 6th Birthday CakeWar #8 - Sportsmanship Award8th Trials - Master of LifeSlice of Elements 5th Birthday Cake
Re: What is the strongest possible Elements card? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67176.msg1289135#msg1289135
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2019, 10:51:34 am »
So what if you counter your card with "Your opponent loses the game. Can be cast after your opponent wins. At the start of the game, draw this card." Which can be played reactively to the opponent winning the game.

Offline Submachine

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4987
  • Country: gb
  • Reputation Power: 95
  • Submachine is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.Submachine is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.Submachine is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.Submachine is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.Submachine is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.Submachine is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.Submachine is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.Submachine is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.Submachine is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.Submachine is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.Submachine is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.Submachine is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.Submachine is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.Submachine is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.Submachine is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.
  • Who needs a Sub?
  • Awards: Weekly Tournament Winner (2020.09.27.)Weekly Tournament WinnerSlice of Elements 10th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerSlice of Elements 7th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Design July 2015 - GoldSlice of Elements 5th Birthday CakeBattle League 3/2013 3rd PlaceWeekly Tournament Winner
Re: What is the strongest possible Elements card? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67176.msg1289136#msg1289136
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2019, 10:59:04 am »
I would go with Zso_Zso's idea. This theory works best if only one instance exists of the card. Then you do not have to worry about tied games.

So use your fourth listed card and say that only one player can use it at any time in the world.
And we keep driving into the night
It's a late goodbye, such a late goodbye...

~ Platinum Quest ~

Offline dawn to dusk

  • Master of Light
  • *
  • ******
  • Posts: 2693
  • Country: aq
  • Reputation Power: 53
  • dawn to dusk brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.dawn to dusk brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.dawn to dusk brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.dawn to dusk brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.dawn to dusk brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.dawn to dusk brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.dawn to dusk brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.dawn to dusk brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.dawn to dusk brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.dawn to dusk brings all the vitality and activity of a Life Nymph.
  • Awards: 14th Trials - Master of LightSlice of Elements 11th Birthday Cake13th Trials - Master of LightWar #12 - Sportsmanship AwardSlice of Elements 10th Birthday CakeCard Design Competition - The Fool Winner12th Trials - Master of LightDeckbuilding Competition - Elelections WinnerSlice of Elements 7th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Design July 2015 - Bronze9th Trials - Master of LifeWeekly Tournament WinnerSlice of Elements 6th Birthday CakeWar #8 - Sportsmanship Award8th Trials - Master of LifeSlice of Elements 5th Birthday Cake
Re: What is the strongest possible Elements card? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67176.msg1289137#msg1289137
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2019, 11:01:55 am »
I would go with Zso_Zso's idea. This theory works best if only one instance exists of the card. Then you do not have to worry about tied games.

So use your fourth listed card and say that only one player can use it at any time in the world.
And then you use my card, which turns their won game into a lost game. And because the card doesn't say "You win the game", they can't play it back

Offline Submachine

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4987
  • Country: gb
  • Reputation Power: 95
  • Submachine is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.Submachine is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.Submachine is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.Submachine is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.Submachine is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.Submachine is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.Submachine is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.Submachine is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.Submachine is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.Submachine is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.Submachine is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.Submachine is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.Submachine is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.Submachine is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.Submachine is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.
  • Who needs a Sub?
  • Awards: Weekly Tournament Winner (2020.09.27.)Weekly Tournament WinnerSlice of Elements 10th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerSlice of Elements 7th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Design July 2015 - GoldSlice of Elements 5th Birthday CakeBattle League 3/2013 3rd PlaceWeekly Tournament Winner
Re: What is the strongest possible Elements card? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67176.msg1289138#msg1289138
« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2019, 11:06:12 am »
Then we can just add the following:

+"You win the game even if you lose or tie."
And we keep driving into the night
It's a late goodbye, such a late goodbye...

~ Platinum Quest ~

Offline iancudorinmarian

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 3772
  • Country: ro
  • Reputation Power: 67
  • iancudorinmarian walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.iancudorinmarian walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.iancudorinmarian walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.iancudorinmarian walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.iancudorinmarian walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.iancudorinmarian walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.iancudorinmarian walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.iancudorinmarian walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.iancudorinmarian walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.iancudorinmarian walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.iancudorinmarian walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.iancudorinmarian walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.iancudorinmarian walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.
  • Master of Ponies.Eternally salty about War#11 SEC.
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 11th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 10th Birthday CakeWar #12 Winner - Team Darkness12th Trials - Master of EntropyWeekly Tournament WinnerSlice of Elements 9th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament Winner11th Trials - Master of EntropySlice of Elements 8th Birthday CakeWinner of TrinityWinner of Team PvP #710th Trials - Master of EntropySlice of Elements 7th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament Winner9th Trials - Master of EntropyWeekly Tournament WinnerSlice of Elements 6th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerSlice of Elements 5th Birthday Cake
Re: What is the strongest possible Elements card? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67176.msg1289139#msg1289139
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2019, 11:07:53 am »
Card Name: Not OP, just strong
Effect: If your opponent has an OP card in their collection, win the game. This card is Not OP, just strong.

Offline Jen-i

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1975
  • Country: ca
  • Reputation Power: 0
  • Jen-i hides under a Cloak.
  • Death to the Ninja!
  • Awards: Weekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerSlice of Elements 10th Birthday CakeElements League 2/2018 2nd PlaceSlice of Elements 8th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament WinnerBattle League 2/2014 3rd Place8th Trials - Master of LightWinner of SacrificeWeekly Tournament WinnerBattle League 1/2014 1st PlaceSlice of Elements 5th Birthday CakeWar #7 Winner - Team AetherWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerSlice of Elements 4th Birthday CakeBest Sportsman - War #6Weekly Tournament WinnerWinner of Team PvP #514 Club - Most Expensive Players during War AuctionWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerBrawl #1 Winner - Team Nyan SharksBeginners League 1/2012 3rd PlaceWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerChampionship League 2/2011 3rd PlaceWeekly Tournament WinnerChampionship League 1/2011 3rd PlaceWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament Winner
Re: What is the strongest possible Elements card? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=67176.msg1289489#msg1289489
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2019, 01:13:46 am »


I suppose the card could be made more powerful by only having one face on it ... but as this is a card from an actual CCG I figured it was worth posting
Lux Kyrie

 

anything
blarg: