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Offline mildlyfrightenedboy

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Re: The Scrapyard http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=24796.msg494725#msg494725
« Reply #24 on: May 08, 2012, 03:44:53 am »
Forgive the pseudo-necro but I really believe this thread deserves more attention.

I'd like your opinions on why :time Prophecy | Prophecy had a tough time..

I personally thought it was a brilliant card, and I can't say that about all of my cards.

What would you guys have changed? What would have made it better?

It acts like a second weapon

Except... it only lasts one turn.  :/
Precisely the problem. It gets 1 effective turn of duration per draw you can induce during that 1 turn. However that is all it does.

Maybe, it could occupy the weapon slot, but the damage dealt would be equal to the top creature in your deck.
This thing seemed dead inside. It seemed like an automaton, trying to act like as if it was alive. The effect was unsettling.
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Offline eaglgenes101

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Re: The Scrapyard http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=24796.msg1117885#msg1117885
« Reply #25 on: December 29, 2013, 08:48:47 am »
My 3 game-modification principles:
1. If it ain't broke, don't wreck it.
2. Simple fixes for simple problems.
3. Remember to fill in the holes.

Offline Captain Scibra

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Re: The Scrapyard http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=24796.msg1128922#msg1128922
« Reply #26 on: March 08, 2014, 05:58:29 pm »
What caused http://elementscommunity.org/forum/forge-archive/quartet-pillars-quartet-towers/msg421314/#msg421314 to be downed in the forge?

Not a bad idea. Possibly the reason is it is too focused on just those three sets of 4, while making any combination available is just as impractical.

EDIT: You could probably do a similar mechanic, but link it to opposite pairs only, since that has practicality at bringing the 'opposites attract' theme out.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2014, 06:22:45 pm by Captain Scibra »
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The New Card Theory Thread

Offline montrossen

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Re: The Scrapyard http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=24796.msg1168400#msg1168400
« Reply #27 on: November 26, 2014, 12:04:04 pm »
What counts as shot down? I made a whole lot of card ideas that simply faded away... also how often do cards make it into the cruicible? That I would like to know.
Edit:
Spoiler for Hidden:
When I posted this I somehow did not realize this was for the cruicible. I meant I have lots of cards that faded away in the general CIA board. I have no cards in the cruicble yet.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2014, 12:23:22 pm by montrossen »
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Offline Espithel

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Re: The Scrapyard http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=24796.msg1168402#msg1168402
« Reply #28 on: November 26, 2014, 12:12:38 pm »
What counts as shot down? I made a whole lot of card ideas that simply faded away... also how often do cards make it into the cruicible? That I would like to know.

The crucible- also the main voting levels of CIA - is currently going under a reconstruction. They've added a fourth level (The anvil, making the actual forge level 4), and are changing around a few things to do with voting.
You can read up on that here.

This started just after I joined the forums, actually, and very little progress has happened since then. You get the odd card moving up every once in a while, but that seems to be about it. The most recent example I can name is Submachine's Dream Catcher.

As for something being shot down, if things don't get moved up whilst in the crucible, they get archived.
I guess this is just a long-winded way of saying CIA is rather dead

Offline foxrain4

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Re: The Scrapyard http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=24796.msg1182023#msg1182023
« Reply #29 on: March 12, 2015, 04:07:38 am »
Why are high quantas cards not popular?
i have been making 15 quantas dragons, but none of them are popular.

I think mono decks can be improved vastly compared to overpowered rainbows decks
if we can introduce more super high quantas cards.

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Re: The Scrapyard http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=24796.msg1182025#msg1182025
« Reply #30 on: March 12, 2015, 04:15:12 am »
Why are high quantas cards not popular?
i have been making 15 quantas dragons, but none of them are popular.

I think mono decks can be improved vastly compared to overpowered rainbows decks
if we can introduce more super high quantas cards.

The thing is, your dragons (I believe the only two are the fracture one and the ice one) have either OP abilities or relatively situational abilities, fracture and ice respectively.

It's not about the cost really, it's more of the ability. Ability and stats should determine cost, not the other way around (or no correlation at all, that's bad too)
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Offline Espithel

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Re: The Scrapyard http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=24796.msg1182029#msg1182029
« Reply #31 on: March 12, 2015, 04:56:08 am »
Why are high quantas cards not popular?
i have been making 15 quantas dragons, but none of them are popular.

I think mono decks can be improved vastly compared to overpowered rainbows decks
if we can introduce more super high quantas cards.

The thing is, your dragons (I believe the only two are the fracture one and the ice one) have either OP abilities or relatively situational abilities, fracture and ice respectively.

It's not about the cost really, it's more of the ability. Ability and stats should determine cost, not the other way around (or no correlation at all, that's bad too)

I'm going to post a bit more of a definitive response.

Compare these two card:

If you look at these cards, you'll notice that Abomination is simply half a purple dragon. Or, that purple dragon is double an abomination - two abominations.

Now, it's a somewhat reasonable assumption, that, if abomination is balanced, then doubling (nearly) all of its stats is also balanced - This can be called scaling. When someone asks you to scale the card down, they're simply asking you to make the card smaller overall, but keep the proportions of ATK/HP/Cost roughly the same. This will work for most card games - taking magic, a 2/2 creature for 2 mana is balanced, and so is a 4/4 creature for 4 mana. A 6/6 for 6 mana tends to be somewhat lackluster, but not "bad" - I'd take a 6/6 for 6.

This is not true for elements, or at least much less true. Scaling a card gets out of hand quickly.

Using abomination and purple dragon, what if we made a card that was a scaled purple dragon?

^^^ I believe this to be too powerful.

Let's examine the quanta system for a minute. You play pillars, and they give you quanta at the end of you turn. You can use quanta to cast spells. This sounds similar enough to magic, as of now, where scaling works - You play lands, and then "tap" those lands to produce mana to cast spells.

Here is the huge difference:

In elements, you can play unlimited pillars a turn.
In magic, you can play only one land a turn.
What does this change? Everything.

There is no way to predict when a card is going to come out: When you see massive giant finisher cards in magic, it's assumed that they will be played late in the game, and they are, unless you try to cheat it out. There is no true "early game card" or "late game card" in elements - a way of stopping the late game cards from trouncing everything doesn't exist in elements. And if it does, it does not do its job well enough.

Because you can store quanta, it is feasible to cast any card that costs over 20 quanta on your fourth turn, unupped, and still have a lot of quanta left over for defence. Unupped.
Upped, It should be doable on your third turn. Elements does not scale correctly; It does not take double the amount of time to cast something that costs double the cost of another card in elements, which makes scaling a card really difficult.

Then we have the problem that most cards in elements are in the most scaled down form they can be in - thier most brute form, if you will. As a result, scaling up cards makes them look and feel incredibly powerful in comparison, which clouds judgement.

All these factors rolled in together makes making high-cost cards actually hard to do - I've only ever designed one card with double-digit numbers off of the top of my head, and have seen very few cards with such high costs that I actually like.

As for cards being broken due to high costs, all you have to do is look at fractal, a card that a good portion of people consider overpowered. And I don't recall light stalls struggling to cast miracles quickly enough too often.

Offline foxrain4

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Re: The Scrapyard http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=24796.msg1182032#msg1182032
« Reply #32 on: March 12, 2015, 05:29:15 am »
Quote
Then we have the problem that most cards in elements are in the most scaled down form they can be in - thier most brute form, if you will. As a result, scaling up cards makes them look and feel incredibly powerful in comparison, which clouds judgement.

Frozengaia's reply is really insightful, the higher the quanta, the less increase of attack power and hp.



But still interested in making high quanta cards :)
« Last Edit: March 12, 2015, 05:53:55 am by foxrain4 »

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Re: The Scrapyard http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=24796.msg1182038#msg1182038
« Reply #33 on: March 12, 2015, 06:55:45 am »
Quanta costs are limited by the 6 copy limit and the 30 card deck minimum. These limits are pushed by pillar:non pillar ratios in decks but only to a point. The precise nature of this limitation has never been rigorously derived (although I am procrastinating on something similar) however the gist is this:

When the average cost of your cards is too low, you cannot help but to produce too much more quanta than you can use.
When the average cost of your cards is too high, you cannot help but produce too little quanta to use them (or include too few in your deck to rely on them).
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Offline serprex

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Re: The Scrapyard http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=24796.msg1182048#msg1182048
« Reply #34 on: March 12, 2015, 12:29:32 pm »
Also more expensive creatures run into having to not be OP with PU

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Re: The Scrapyard http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=24796.msg1182056#msg1182056
« Reply #35 on: March 12, 2015, 03:57:09 pm »
Also more expensive creatures run into having to not be OP with PU

I would have said "more expensive creatures run into PU having to not be OP with them." The cost of PU should change over time if the demographics of cards change over time. It doesn't really restrict card design.
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