*Author

Offline GravityGeekTopic starter

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
  • Reputation Power: 1
  • GravityGeek is a Spark waiting for a buff.
  • Young Elemental
Possible New Elements http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=60515.msg1215509#msg1215509
« on: November 19, 2015, 09:30:42 pm »
 :underworld:chroma and  :rainbow may become new elements. What cards would they have? I may not present "balanced" cards, so tell me and I'll modify them.

Offline Mr Muffin

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 832
  • Country: us
  • Reputation Power: 14
  • Mr Muffin is taking their first peeks out of the Antlion's burrow.Mr Muffin is taking their first peeks out of the Antlion's burrow.
  • Sort of Young Elemental
  • Awards: Weekly Tournament WinnerSlice of Elements 10th Birthday Cake12th Trials - Master of LifeSlice of Elements 9th Birthday CakeWar #11 Winner - Team LifeWeekly Tournament Winner11th Trials - Master of LifeBattle League 1/2017 2nd PlaceSlice of Elements 8th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerSlice of Elements 7th Birthday Cake
Re: Possible New Elements http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=60515.msg1215512#msg1215512
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2015, 09:41:49 pm »
I think this :chroma is the "other" cards such as long sword or quantum pillars.

Offline ddevans96

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 8303
  • Country: us
  • Reputation Power: 113
  • ddevans96 is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ddevans96 is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ddevans96 is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ddevans96 is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ddevans96 is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ddevans96 is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ddevans96 is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ddevans96 is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ddevans96 is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ddevans96 is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ddevans96 is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ddevans96 is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ddevans96 is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ddevans96 is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ddevans96 is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.
  • now palafrost, they/them
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 10th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 9th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 8th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 7th Birthday CakeSilver Donor9th Trials - Master of WaterSlice of Elements 6th Birthday Cake8th Trials - Master of WaterSlice of Elements 4th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 3rd Birthday CakeWinner of the Harry Potter PvP House CupSlice of Elements 2nd Birthday Cake
Re: Possible New Elements http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=60515.msg1215513#msg1215513
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2015, 09:42:14 pm »
 :underworld was used for the Underworld team in Wars 2, 3, and 4, which was a team with access to all elements, but limited to three copies per card.
 :rainbow was another submission for Underworld's logo that wound up being used to denote random quanta.
 :chroma was intended to be a new mark added in Elements 1.4, which would give random quanta and thus has replaced :rainbow for that usage.
Discord: palafrost#6710 - Frost Serpent - 2x Master of Water - False God Enthusiast
Twitch Affiliate: palafrost - Celeste Speedrunner
Avatar: Makoto [Persona 5] by asukabaka

Offline Espithel

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2705
  • Reputation Power: 0
  • Espithel hides under a Cloak.
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 11th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 10th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 9th Birthday CakeGive us the video.Slice of Elements 7th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 6th Birthday CakeZanz Christmas Present Competition - Winner
Re: Possible New Elements http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=60515.msg1215514#msg1215514
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2015, 09:49:48 pm »
I moved the topic into design theory. Please don't maim me.

Anyway, evans and muffin are correct; these three symbols already have something to denote.

Fwiw, :underworld is sometimes used to denote quanta of an unspecified element, used in balancing statements (eg. "This effect should normally cost 3 :underworld, but given the added card draw, that should bump it up to 4 :underworld").

And an edited image of :rainbow is used to represent Void Pseudoquanta. It's an old thread, lot of dust, but has merit.

Offline ZephyrPhantom

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7675
  • Country: aq
  • Reputation Power: 101
  • ZephyrPhantom is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ZephyrPhantom is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ZephyrPhantom is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ZephyrPhantom is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ZephyrPhantom is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ZephyrPhantom is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ZephyrPhantom is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ZephyrPhantom is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ZephyrPhantom is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ZephyrPhantom is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ZephyrPhantom is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ZephyrPhantom is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ZephyrPhantom is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ZephyrPhantom is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ZephyrPhantom is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 6th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 4th Birthday CakeFlavour Text Revival Competition - WinnerSlice of Elements 3rd Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 2nd Birthday Cake
Re: Possible New Elements http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=60515.msg1215515#msg1215515
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2015, 09:53:04 pm »
If we disregard code difficulties: (since new elements are basically slightly less difficult to code than Hybrids in Cygnia)

The key problem with adding new Elements in terms of design is that certain cards like Immolation and Nova already hinge on the large amount of quanta advantage they generate for "1 of each element". This makes it increasingly difficult to cost Other cards fairly - if you look at previous Other-cost designs in this section, you'll notice that they're either inefficient, too powerful, or struggle with trying to find a fair balance in between the extremes. (If you compare a game like MtG, which has 5 colors, you'll notice that their colorless cards tend to have an efficient ratio closer to their colored cards, partially because they can't 'burst' as much resources as a game like EtG could.)*

Since :chroma and :rainbow already represent something in relation to other elements (typically Other-cost cards), I'd strongly suggest going with  :underworld or a symbol of your own.

P.S. - Another significant problem would be defining distinct mechanics for a 13th Element, though given that 12 Elements already implies mechanics will likely be shared in the long (assuming an infinitely expanding cardpool), this is less of a problem here than the Nova/Immolation issue.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2015, 09:58:21 pm by ZephyrPhantom »

Offline OdinVanguard

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4984
  • Reputation Power: 67
  • OdinVanguard walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.OdinVanguard walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.OdinVanguard walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.OdinVanguard walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.OdinVanguard walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.OdinVanguard walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.OdinVanguard walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.OdinVanguard walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.OdinVanguard walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.OdinVanguard walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.OdinVanguard walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.OdinVanguard walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.OdinVanguard walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.
  • Keeping The Jotnar at bay
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 4th Birthday Cake
Re: Possible New Elements http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=60515.msg1215592#msg1215592
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2015, 05:46:29 pm »
I remember reading somewhere a while back that Zanz explicitly stated he did not want any 'new' elements to get added.

Pseudoelements (like hybrids) work out because they are really just amalgams of their component elements and thus they aren't truly distinct elements themselves.
Whether the glass is half full or half empty is a moot point. It is always filled to the brim. It is only a matter of by what. The real question is: What fills you?
If your zombie plan is
kill -9 `ps l | awk '{print $2" "$3" "$9}' | grep "Z" | awk '{printf("%s ",$2)}'`
You might be a unix junky

Offline ZephyrPhantom

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7675
  • Country: aq
  • Reputation Power: 101
  • ZephyrPhantom is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ZephyrPhantom is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ZephyrPhantom is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ZephyrPhantom is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ZephyrPhantom is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ZephyrPhantom is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ZephyrPhantom is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ZephyrPhantom is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ZephyrPhantom is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ZephyrPhantom is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ZephyrPhantom is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ZephyrPhantom is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ZephyrPhantom is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ZephyrPhantom is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.ZephyrPhantom is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 6th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 4th Birthday CakeFlavour Text Revival Competition - WinnerSlice of Elements 3rd Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 2nd Birthday Cake
Re: Possible New Elements http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=60515.msg1215619#msg1215619
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2015, 07:44:34 pm »
I remember reading somewhere a while back that Zanz explicitly stated he did not want any 'new' elements to get added.

Pseudoelements (like hybrids) work out because they are really just amalgams of their component elements and thus they aren't truly distinct elements themselves.
To be fair, though, if one wants to theorize about game concepts like these you pretty much have to go against word of the developer. Sure, they may not see implementation anywhere (unless someone wants to mod Cygnia locally), but it's a good lesson to see what issues would arise from messing with design boundaries.

Offline OdinVanguard

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4984
  • Reputation Power: 67
  • OdinVanguard walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.OdinVanguard walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.OdinVanguard walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.OdinVanguard walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.OdinVanguard walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.OdinVanguard walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.OdinVanguard walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.OdinVanguard walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.OdinVanguard walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.OdinVanguard walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.OdinVanguard walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.OdinVanguard walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.OdinVanguard walks among the Immortals, legends and guardians of all time.
  • Keeping The Jotnar at bay
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 4th Birthday Cake
Re: Possible New Elements http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=60515.msg1215790#msg1215790
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2015, 06:00:04 pm »
Fair enough... openEtG may be another venue.

On a more constructive note, making a new element will require defining a new set of core thematics and mechanics to set it apart from the other elements.
What we have now covers an aweful lot of ground so I think its going to take some serious creative thought to come up with something new and worthwhile.

Theme is probably a good place to start here. Can you think of an 'element' that would be interesting and does not yet fall within the demense of what is present already?
Whether the glass is half full or half empty is a moot point. It is always filled to the brim. It is only a matter of by what. The real question is: What fills you?
If your zombie plan is
kill -9 `ps l | awk '{print $2" "$3" "$9}' | grep "Z" | awk '{printf("%s ",$2)}'`
You might be a unix junky

 

blarg: