Mechanic idea: Burn / bleed status

[OdinVanguard]

I've been thinking that it would be very cool to have an alternative form of damage over time and wanted to get some discussion on the concept before trying to make cards with it (and subsequently causing a lot of confusion and side discussion).

My idea for burn / bleed damage would be a status debuff that deals a portion of itself each turn (say 1/3 to 1/2 of its total).
E.g. If a target had 30 burn counters, it would receive 15 damage the first turn, then 8, 4, 2, 1.

This mechanic would be used as means to make cards and effects which would amplify other forms of damage.

For example: a card that would cause spell damage source to also burn their victims for an additional percentage of the amount dealt

Spoiler for Example Card- Plasma Globe:

So like poison, damage would be dealt over time rather than all at once. However, unlike poison (which deals an indefinite amount of damage) burn or bleed damage would deal a fixed amount. Also, the amount of damage that gets dealt each turn is large at the start but tappers off over time.

Some things to work out:

• What percentage of the damage should get spread each turn
  
  • Should this be linear or non-linear?
• How does this mechanism compare with poison balance wise
• Is this unique enough to warrant a new mechanism?
• What element(s) does this fit best in?
• Should there be a way to clear off the status (and if so how)?

[Keolino]

First thought: useless
Second thought: maybe...

I think that you should only try to make one additional mechanic, and I really would prefer burn damage. (Well, I don´t think bleeding would fit into the current cards that elements already has.)

Some things to work out:

• What percentage of the damage should get spread each turn
  
  • Should this be linear or non-linear?
• How does this mechanism compare with poison balance wise
• Is this unique enough to warrant a new mechanism?
• What element(s) does this fit best in?
• Should there be a way to clear off the status (and if so how)?

1. I think linear would be easier to predict. Maybe it would be nice to add that cards which are next to the target are damaged as well...
2. Well, it´s definitely weaker than poison, but i think that we can think about balance once you make cards with such an ability.
3. I think it´s unique enough to give it a try. If it´s unique enough to get further up, is not for now to decide.
4. burn damage: Fire. bleeding damage: Don´t know, maybe light (Because of Morning Glory? = sharp sword that gets opponent to bleed + crusader = warrior with a sword...?) I don´t know, but i wouldn´t make bleeding damage anyway.
5. Flooding should remove burn damage, at least from any water creature in the flooded area. Maybe make water creatures immune to burn damage.
Freeze may remove burn counters.

[jawdirk]

Burn damage doesn't do much for creature damage sources. The progression of damage is still linear. All it would do is delay some of the damage at the beginning until after the creature dies:

Turn	Damage
1	4
2	4 + 3
3	4 + 3 + 2
4	4 + 3 + 2 + 1
...	...
Death - 1	4 + 3 + 2 + 1
Death	3 + 2 + 1
Death + 1	2 + 1
Death + 2	1

As you can see, this is little different from a 10-attack creature (very similar to graboid actually). It doesn't matter what the burn curve is, it is still going to be linear damage, just like any non-growth non-poison creature.

A single dose of burn damage is more interesting. Assume that the average game lasts 8 turns. Then a 6-damage burn does 21 damage if played on turn 1-3, but 11 damage if played on turn 7. So it is like a 2.625-attack creature when played on the first turn, but like a 5.5 attack creature if played on the 7th turn.

A more general mechanic is "Do X damage in Y turns." Burn 5 is "Do 5 damage in 0 turns + 4 damage in 1 turn + 3 damage in 2 turns, etc." Perhaps the Do X damage in Y turns is more interesting when applied just once. Consider

Stones of Prophecy 2 (Perm) -- Doom: Do 50 damage after 10 turns. Immaterial.

This is a bet that you can make the game last at least 10 turns from when you cast the spell, giving your opponent a 1-card advantage. That's an interesting wager that doesn't exist in the game now.

A single dose of burn damage is also an interesting effect - akin to a creature with attack equal to the turn count when it was played.

[Keolino]

Stones of Prophecy 2 (Perm) -- Doom: Do 50 damage after 10 turns. Immaterial.

This is a bet that you can make the game last at least 10 turns from when you cast the spell, giving your opponent a 1-card advantage. That's an interesting wager that doesn't exist in the game now.

That sounds like a time bomb, but not damage you normally get from getting burnt. Fire doesn´t need time to hurt you.

(Even so, a time bomb may be interesting...)

[OdinVanguard]

Burn damage doesn't do much for creature damage sources. The progression of damage is still linear. All it would do is delay some of the damage at the beginning until after the creature dies:

Turn	Damage
1	4
2	4 + 3
3	4 + 3 + 2
4	4 + 3 + 2 + 1
...	...
Death - 1	4 + 3 + 2 + 1
Death	3 + 2 + 1
Death + 1	2 + 1
Death + 2	1

Spoiler for snip:

As you can see, this is little different from a 10-attack creature (very similar to graboid actually). It doesn't matter what the burn curve is, it is still going to be linear damage, just like any non-growth non-poison creature.

A single dose of burn damage is more interesting. Assume that the average game lasts 8 turns. Then a 6-damage burn does 21 damage if played on turn 1-3, but 11 damage if played on turn 7. So it is like a 2.625-attack creature when played on the first turn, but like a 5.5 attack creature if played on the 7th turn.

A more general mechanic is "Do X damage in Y turns." Burn 5 is "Do 5 damage in 0 turns + 4 damage in 1 turn + 3 damage in 2 turns, etc." Perhaps the Do X damage in Y turns is more interesting when applied just once. Consider

Stones of Prophecy 2 (Perm) -- Doom: Do 50 damage after 10 turns. Immaterial.

This is a bet that you can make the game last at least 10 turns from when you cast the spell, giving your opponent a 1-card advantage. That's an interesting wager that doesn't exist in the game now.

A single dose of burn damage is also an interesting effect - akin to a creature with attack equal to the turn count when it was played.

Actually, I think the situation for a creature burn source is different.
Consider:
-Creature damage contributes A*p burn counters (where p is the percentage of damage converted to burn)

-Burn counters are consumed at a rate of B*r (where r is the percentage rate of burn release)

-This means that burn counters at turn i, B[ i ], can be expressed as:
B[ i ] = Floor(B[i-1]*(1-r)) + Ceiling(A*p)
...Floor means round down, Ceiling means round up to nearest integer...

-This will eventually lead to a fixed point of approximately A*p / r
-This gives a cap damage per turn of: A+ A*p/r * r -> A*(1+p)

There is an interesting twist here, the cap is purely related to p but the rate at which the cap is approached is controled by r

So in short, we can control the max boost to dpt using p and we can control the rate at which this is approached using r.

This works well for one of my card ideas:
Card Name: Ferrocity
Element: Life
Cost: 6
Text: " Bleeding Wounds: Your creatures' attacks will inflict an additional 50% damage over several turns"

So with 2 of those in play it would allow the total creature damage per turn to cap out at 2 fold (like having a permanent sky blitz)
Of course, depending on the rate of release chosen, the time it would take to reach the cap could be controled.

I'm still working on the math for number of turns to cap out versus the value bleed rate.

This could easily be adapted to a fire card instead.

[jawdirk]

... The progression of damage is still linear...  It doesn't matter what the burn curve is, it is still going to be linear damage, just like any non-growth non-poison creature.

-This will eventually lead to a fixed point of approximately A*p / r

Yes, that is what I said.

-This gives a cap damage per turn of: A+ A*p/r * r -> A*(1+p)

There is an interesting twist here... the rate at which the cap is approached is controled by r

Yes, that is a good point. But in essence, the damage ramps up, and then it ramps down after the creature dies, so in essence all you are doing is delaying damage from the beginning until after the end. Yes, there is some interest in whether your creature will live long enough to reach the cap damage and peak efficiency. And there is some interest in whether the game will last long enough for the burn to complete. But other than that, it is just like any normal creature.

Furthermore, the longer the ramp is, the less likely you will reach the cap damage. In the extreme case, you get a normal growth creature that never reaches the cap damage.

So repeated burn damage is just somewhere between a normal creature and a growth creature, depending on how you pick "r". Any way you pick it, it is not much different from what is already in the game.

[OdinVanguard]

Hmm, I see your point.
So what about using for a permanent card that provides the bonus to all creatures you own? I.e. sort of an inverse sky blitz.
So instead of one turn of massive burst it causes everything to ramp up over time. I.e. like a mass ablaze effect.
(This would also be a nasty combo with blitz since it would combine to pop a huge amount of burn / bleed count in a single turn).