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Offline EmeraldTiger

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Re: Element grouping https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=60443.msg1214687#msg1214687
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2015, 01:41:28 am »
mathematically there are 5775 different versions of the quatros and even more trios, I think

A lot of those are going to be repeats. The correct number is far less - There's only approximately 60 unique duos, for example.
I agree with Espithel.

edit: there are 66 Duos.
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Offline NevzaraTopic starter

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Re: Element grouping https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=60443.msg1214688#msg1214688
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2015, 01:41:46 am »
mathematically there are 5775 different versions of the quatros and even more trios, I think

A lot of those are going to be repeats. The correct number is far less - There's only approximately 60 unique duos, for example.

there are relatively few dues but check the proof here for quatros

http://www.algebra.com/algebra/homework/Permutations/Permutations.faq.question.333341.html
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Offline CuCN

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Re: Element grouping https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=60443.msg1214689#msg1214689
« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2015, 01:50:25 am »
The number of ways to divide 12 elements into three quartets is 5775, but the number of possible quartets is only 495.

Similarly, there are only 66 duos, but 10395 ways to divide 12 elements into 6 duos.

Offline NevzaraTopic starter

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Re: Element grouping https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=60443.msg1214692#msg1214692
« Reply #15 on: November 13, 2015, 02:00:34 am »
The number of ways to divide 12 elements into three quartets is 5775, but the number of possible quartets is only 495.

Similarly, there are only 66 duos, but 10395 ways to divide 12 elements into 6 duos.

can you please show working?
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Offline NevzaraTopic starter

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Re: Element grouping https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=60443.msg1214695#msg1214695
« Reply #16 on: November 13, 2015, 02:10:27 am »
Just out of interest not because I don't believe you
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Re: Element grouping https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=60443.msg1214709#msg1214709
« Reply #17 on: November 13, 2015, 04:16:57 am »
Here's how I would group them.

Tier 1:
 :aether :fire :entropy

Tier 2:
 :air :darkness :death

Tier 3:
 :time :gravity :)

Tier 4:
 :light :earth :water
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Re: Element grouping https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=60443.msg1214725#msg1214725
« Reply #18 on: November 13, 2015, 07:27:46 am »
There are 220 unique trios (12! / (3!*9!) and 495 unique quartets (12! / (4!*8!)
The one with answerable questions and questionable answers


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Re: Element grouping https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=60443.msg1214957#msg1214957
« Reply #19 on: November 14, 2015, 10:57:14 pm »
There are 220 unique trios (12! / (3!*9!) and 495 unique quartets (12! / (4!*8!)

*(12! / (3!*9!)) and (12! / (4!*8!)) ;)
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Re: Element grouping https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=60443.msg1214984#msg1214984
« Reply #20 on: November 14, 2015, 11:58:12 pm »
Here's how I would group them.

...

I see what you did there
Every time a graboid evolves, an elemental gets his wings.
:gravity Guild (old), War 9 & 13 (gen) / :time Brawl 2 & 3, War 7 & 14 / :death War 8 & 12 / :fire Brawl 4 / :entropy Brawl 5 / :darkness War 10

Offline Flayne

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Re: Element grouping https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=60443.msg1214999#msg1214999
« Reply #21 on: November 15, 2015, 04:23:12 am »
I like this except for one thing that I disagree with.

:time and :entropy should be swapped in the trio section

:time being free

:entropy being warm

I will explain:    ( though if you dislike walls of text or unnecessarily detailed explanations, I highly recommend TL;DR sections 1 and 2 in white, bold and underlined )

The second law of thermodynamics states that when two connected bodies, initially with different temperatures connect thermally, heat always moves from the hotter body into the cold. It can be called an increase in entropy within said isolated system and is a natural process which is irreversible just like many other forms of the second law of thermodynamics which the majority if not all can be applied with the gradual increase entropy that causes the phenomenon of irreversibility in nature.

TL;DR 1: Heat cannot spontaneously flow from a colder location into a hotter location and it is irreversible mostly due to molecular disorder from the heat generating kinetic movement of molecules.

Example: Classically, when a glass falls to the floor, the impact generates kinetic energy which can be interpreted as a molecular rush that momentarily generates a high amount of heat energy in the form of massive and random molecular chaos. In this case, the heat generated instantly dissipates into all directions, however since the floors tight molecular structure blocks some of the heat from the molecular movement, most of the heat rushes upwards and causes molecular chaos within the structure of the glass, shattering it in the process.

The heat dissipation from hot to cold is covered as well as the irreversibility of the chaotic change in molecular structure due to the sudden increase of entropy.



Now, as for :time being free, well lets just say that Time can be interpreted in many different ways, though the classical ways of interpreting it can be left to either linear or cyclical. Linear suggesting a creator or creation beginning the universe and coming to an eventual end and cyclical having more to do with all living beings beings living, dying and being reborn to continue a new cycle.
Time is "free" in the sense that it moves along in whatever fashion being linear or cyclical (or something else), as long as some form of existence itself remains for :time to continue having purpose being free to move in that course however it needs to.
There is also the freedom that we have access to which comes in the form of memories. It certainly is Quasi-time travel, where within your mind you can be in any moment at anytime that has already happened which you can recall, though that essentially comes closer to being personal freedom rather than freedom for time itself but can still be somewhat relatable.

TL;DR 2: :time cannot be controlled nor created or prompted by any physical means directly, which means time is thematically more free than :entropy yet less warm.






- Evening lies evermore entrenched near the soul. :entropy :fire

 

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