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Offline OldTreesTopic starter

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Ask the Idea Guru https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32272.msg407745#msg407745
« on: October 10, 2011, 11:04:22 pm »
Simply put: The Idea Guru still has too much time on his hands.
As my profile says: I am available for questions.

Please keep the questions on topic. You are asking the Idea Guru not a scientist/philosopher/theologian/engineer/comedian ...

If a question would take too long to answer in this thread I might make another thread to address that question.

I welcome all on topic questions. However Suggestion Design questions are my specialization and are the most useful to card suggestion designers.

Not all questions are linked below. Just most.
Game Design
What are your thoughts on Shards being inclined towards rainbow decks? (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32272.msg437181#msg437181)

What's your opinion on the Shard of Sacrifice? (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32272.msg444590#msg444590)

What do you think is currently the biggest problem of the Etg metagame (ie. Fire, mid-range attackers, PC, or something), and why? Part 1/2 (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32272.msg446630#msg446630)
What do you think is currently the biggest problem of the Etg metagame (ie. Fire, mid-range attackers, PC, or something), and why? Part 2/2 (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32272.msg446843#msg446843)

Based on the existing threads started by other members, what element(s) do you feel are the least "Complete" at the moment? (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32272.msg453402#msg453402)

Which element could use a good mid range attacker with a unique but not particularly great or complicated ability? (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32272.msg455741#msg455741)

What are your thoughts on an Elements that's much "softer"? (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32272.msg458195#msg458195)

Costs of all elemental cards (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32272.msg465644#msg465644)

What are you thoughts on the role of Vanilla Creatures in ETG? (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32272.msg467361#msg467361)

Some game design assumptions (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32272.msg467424#msg467424)

Suggestion Design
To what extent should the environment of a card be considered in its balance? (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32272.msg436815#msg436815)

How much ought balance be considered when voting in the Crucible, Force, and Armory when new additions to the game are always rebalanced? (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32272.msg437015#msg437015)

Why wouldn't you advice adding endow and itself as an exception? (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32272.msg448654#msg448654)

Mechanic: Every X turns (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32272.msg452832#msg452832)

what in your opinion could we develop that hasn't been considered yet? (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32272.msg453402#msg453402)

I've been thinking lately of doing a series of vanilla creatures. What element/s do you consider they don't need new vanilla creatures? (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32272.msg455685#msg455685)

What are your thoughts on card effects that give creatures to an opponent? (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32272.msg457710#msg457710)

Has anyone done a mechanic where a player shuffles cards in hand, and then draws that many cards?  (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32272.msg465644#msg465644)

Specific cards
Gravity Field, Timeskip (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32272.msg437015#msg437015)
Structural shift (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32272.msg437181#msg437181)
Serpent (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32272.msg438874#msg438874)
Spirit Well (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32272.msg442773#msg442773)
Shades of Grey (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32272.msg444590#msg444590)
Algrator | Logthregor (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32272.msg446598#msg446598)
Holtzman shield (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32272.msg448654#msg448654)
Cursed Mirror / Mirror Demon (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32272.msg448662#msg448662)
Endless Army (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32272.msg449080#msg449080)
Starfish | Sea Star (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32272.msg449940#msg449940)
Holy Rune (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32272.msg450560#msg450560)
Zebra | Zebra (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32272.msg453124#msg453124)
Master of Ice (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32272.msg456873#msg456873)
Dark | Dark (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32272.msg457617#msg457617)
Pacificism (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32272.msg460018#msg460018)
 Glowworm | Elite Glowworm (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32272.msg461974#msg461974)
 Bulrush | Giant Bulrush. (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32272.msg465461#msg465461)
Sinkhole | Sinkhole (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32272.msg468093#msg468093)
 Restore (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32272.msg468093#msg468093)

Misc
What would you suggest doing to reignite interest in the card without fundamentally changing it? (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32272.msg436815#msg436815)

Could you tell me why this has been on crucible for 5 months, hanging in there around 4th-2nd place, and now it seems like its going to drop out? (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32272.msg459248#msg459248)

What does the community want in a card? How can I consistently generate these results (positive feedback) when designing cards? (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32272.msg461836#msg461836)
"It is common sense to listen to the wisdom of the wise. The wise are marked by their readiness to listen to the wisdom of the fool."
"Nothing exists that cannot be countered." -OldTrees on indirect counters
Ask the Idea Guru: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32272.0.htm

Offline Rutarete

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Re: Ask the Idea Guru https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32272.msg407750#msg407750
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2011, 11:06:45 pm »
Is this based off BP's thread?
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Offline OldTreesTopic starter

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Re: Ask the Idea Guru https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32272.msg407756#msg407756
« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2011, 11:18:36 pm »
Is this based off BP's thread?
No. This is a serious thread.

"It is common sense to listen to the wisdom of the wise. The wise are marked by their readiness to listen to the wisdom of the fool."
"Nothing exists that cannot be countered." -OldTrees on indirect counters
Ask the Idea Guru: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32272.0.htm

Offline EmeraldTiger

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Re: Ask the Idea Guru https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32272.msg407883#msg407883
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2011, 04:03:12 am »
This is a serious thread for card idea theory and design. OldTrees is here to help with balancing questions and other concepts connected to developing card ideas. I support him in this effort.


Personal note: If I have a question for him I usually need someone to interpret the technical concepts so I can understand them.
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Offline Xenocidius

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Re: Ask the Idea Guru https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32272.msg407916#msg407916
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2011, 05:07:50 am »
Please keep the questions on topic. You are asking the Idea Guru not a scientist/philosopher/theologian/engineer/comedian ...
But your profile says you are a philosopher ...

Anyway, good idea; a nice place for people to ask design theory questions without resorting to PMs, while also making them public and therefore benefiting everyone.

Let the questions begin!
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Re: Ask the Idea Guru https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32272.msg407920#msg407920
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2011, 05:34:50 am »
What kind of questions are you expecting here? It seems very open, as far as CIA goes. We have a lot of serious "Ask ______" threads for different things. Many of them I see the point like the general game question ones, and arena one. Basically what Im saying is that this doesnt seem like the kind of area youd expect to have any questions on (at least not an overwhelming amount of). So back to what I first asked, What kind of questions are you expecting here? Although Im not active in CIA perhaps hearing the kind of thing you are expecting out of this will spur some ideas.

Actually.. While writing that, I had a question. Although Im not sure this would be the best place for it, its my best guess.

I have a couple Ideas, like Bio Shift (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,9897.0.html),that I think are very solid, and have had good responses to from the communuty, however, the momentum died down. The idea is solid, and simple, just doesnt have that "awe" factor that say "this has to get into the game" to. What would you suggest doing to reignite interest in the card without fundamentally changing it?
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Re: Ask the Idea Guru https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32272.msg407925#msg407925
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2011, 05:47:46 am »
To what extent should the environment of a card be considered in its balance? Obviously some context is required, that's inherent to the idea of balance. But I noticed that in the Buff/Nerf subforums, moderators have said, multiple times, not to balance a card based on the element its in.

What's your opinion on this?

Offline OldTreesTopic starter

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Re: Ask the Idea Guru https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32272.msg407937#msg407937
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2011, 06:47:49 am »
I left it very open because I am available for a large range of questions. I am expecting questions about Balancing a mechanic, detailing an aspect of the game (Grand strategy through coding), questions about themes (mechanics, name, element, art), describing the CIA community and card suggestion process and more.

I have a couple Ideas, like Bio Shift (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,9897.0.html),that I think are very solid, and have had good responses to from the communuty, however, the momentum died down. The idea is solid, and simple, just doesnt have that "awe" factor that say "this has to get into the game" to. What would you suggest doing to reignite interest in the card without fundamentally changing it?
People are drawn to and get enthusiastic about the new. This means enthusiasm for a card will decrease with time and the introduction of newer competition. To reinvigorate this enthusiasm you can do a few things.
1) You can reintroduce the idea to people that had forgotten about it.
2) You can tie it to something more recent like the Arena or the Metagame discussions. Perhaps by discussing how it would work in an arena deck or discuss how it would (if it would) help fix perceived problems with the Metagame.
3) You can introduce it to people that never noticed it.
4) You could change minor details. The author knows which details are minor. I would suspect the Art and the Name could be changed if better options were known.
5) Sometimes it pays to refine the idea again and resubmit it.  This is less applicable for suggestions in the Forge.

To what extent should the environment of a card be considered in its balance? Obviously some context is required, that's inherent to the idea of balance. But I noticed that in the Buff/Nerf subforums, moderators have said, multiple times, not to balance a card based on the element its in.

What's your opinion on this?
Everything that contributes or detracts from a card's power or cost will effect the card's balance. We, as humans, cannot evaluate all the web of interactions.

Until recently there were only 3 cards that referenced a card's element (Flooding, Nightfall, Holy Light). Shard of Patience, (the new) Shard of Readiness and Shard of Serendipity are new additions. It is uncommon for one of these cards to act in a way significantly noticeably different from a variant that does not reference a card's element. Nightfall acts like "Your creatures gain +1|+1" except in the uncommon case that the opponent has a death/dark creature or you have a creature that is not from death/darkness. As such the color of the background of the card has had very little impact on balance yet. As such it is usually ignored. The element based effect of SoR and SoSe might be significant during balancing.

A division that has larger effects is the quanta types involved in the costs of the cards. Dune Scorpion costs :time. Before Shard of Patience, Dune Scorpion required the user to obtain a non :time quanta source. The same is true of Anubis but obviously not with Deja Vu. The more quanta types needed the less stable the quanta source. Hence Dune Scorpion would have a lower total cost if there was a creature attack booster that only required  :time by having a more stable quanta source.

In conclusion: The cards available to be cast using :fire is more useful during balancing than the cards with red backgrounds however exceptions to this guideline will exists.

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"Nothing exists that cannot be countered." -OldTrees on indirect counters
Ask the Idea Guru: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32272.0.htm

Offline Pineapple

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Re: Ask the Idea Guru https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32272.msg407979#msg407979
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2011, 10:27:16 am »
Q1: Can other people answer other questions in this thread and comment on or argue against your answers?

Q2: How much ought balance be considered when voting in the Crucible, Force, and Armory when new additions to the game are always rebalanced? Why? Compared to this ideal value, how much does the general community currently value balance (as reflected in voting)?

Offline Zaealix

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Re: Ask the Idea Guru https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32272.msg408002#msg408002
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2011, 12:08:54 pm »
Let the questions begin:
I have devised two seperate Card ideas meant to build on the  :time mechanic of 'Delayed'.
First one:  :gravity element spell, Gravity Field. This card is an AOE delay spell that freezes all the opponents' creatures. However, I've had difficulty figuring out how to balance it, in terms of power and cost.
Second one:  :time element spell, Timeskip/Timejump. Basically, it 'fast forwards' the creature(s) out of delay, but damages them (think what happens when you fast forward through your own life, that's how I imagine the spell working) In this case, I imagined the 'aging' as doing 1 damage per delay counter, but I'm not sure how much cost such a mechanic would require.
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Offline OldTreesTopic starter

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Re: Ask the Idea Guru https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32272.msg408128#msg408128
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2011, 06:03:11 pm »
Q1: Can other people answer other questions in this thread and comment on or argue against your answers?

Q2: How much ought balance be considered when voting in the Crucible, Force, and Armory when new additions to the game are always rebalanced? Why? Compared to this ideal value, how much does the general community currently value balance (as reflected in voting)?
A1: Yes. If it gets too long then I will provide a link to a separate thread in my answer.

A2: All cards that enter the game* go through "in development". The more imbalanced the starting card the longer the stay. However even SoSac made good time. As such balance is not required of card suggestions. However a card suggestion should be able to be balanced. Being balanced is the easiest way to demonstrate a card is able to be balanced.

I do think that for this end the community does over emphasize balance in the polls in a similar way they focus on Art or the New. Talking about balance in the threads is expected and helps prove ability to be balanced. As a card designer I have on a few occasions used this overemphasis to test the community's opinions on balance.
*card suggestions are never guarrenteed to enter the game

Let the questions begin:
I have devised two seperate Card ideas meant to build on the  :time mechanic of 'Delayed'.
First one:  :gravity element spell, Gravity Field. This card is an AOE delay spell that freezes all the opponents' creatures. However, I've had difficulty figuring out how to balance it, in terms of power and cost.
Second one:  :time element spell, Timeskip/Timejump. Basically, it 'fast forwards' the creature(s) out of delay, but damages them (think what happens when you fast forward through your own life, that's how I imagine the spell working) In this case, I imagined the 'aging' as doing 1 damage per delay counter, but I'm not sure how much cost such a mechanic would require.
First one: I would start by comparing "Lightning is to Fire Storm as Freeze|Basilisk Blood is to Gravity Field". Don't forget to compensate for the following details: Lightning deals 5 damage vs Fire Storm deals 3
Use the closer analogy to Gravity Field between Freeze and Basilisk Blood
Freeze is 3 turns, removed by quint, and vulnerable to shock vs Basilisk Blood is 6 turns, and increase their hp by 20

Second one: This cold be meant as CC, a means to escape CC or both.

When used as CC it would have to be combined with a source of Delay (Procrastination [mass 1 per turn], Basilisk Blood [target 6], Warden [target 1 per use] or a future card). Consider the total cost of both and the total benefit of both. Since it is damage I would compare it to Lightning. If the effect were repeatable (ability or status condition) its synergy would increase with Procrastination and Warden.

When used as escape from CC it would be used against a Source of Delay (Procrastination, Basilisk Blood, Warden or a future card). It does not seem to work very well as escape from CC against Procrastination as a spell (2 cards, 2 damage -> +1 turn of attack & skill). Against Warden it might be useful.
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Ask the Idea Guru: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32272.0.htm

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Re: Ask the Idea Guru https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32272.msg408163#msg408163
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2011, 07:53:16 pm »
Recently, I seem to be hearing a common opinion that involves the Shards making rainbow decks much stronger and neglecting monos despite the intent to favor decks with a certain mark.

What are your thoughts on this?

 

anything
blarg: