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Offline YawnChainHowTopic starter

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Flooding+AM based unupped FG grinder https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=61803.msg1231091#msg1231091
« on: April 18, 2016, 06:15:15 pm »
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Probably not ever a good idea, since the income is terrible compared to other unupped FG grinders, but I'm not here for alternatives, I'm here for feedback on the deck!

I assume this has already been done before, but I can't get deck searching to work for me, so please point me the right way if it's been posted.

Good odds against: Ferox, Gemini, Paradox, Miracle (almost guaranteed EM if you win). Can win against FFQ, and very small chance of beating Incarnate. Everything else is autoquit.

A major issue is that Gemini, Paradox, and Miracle often slow down to 1 draw per turn and sit on it for most of the game, inflating the ttw. Aside from that, I've considered dabbling in Earth (BB and SS) for 500 HP EM potential, or adding Purifies to try to make Morte winnable. I could probably do away with 1 Time pillar and the HGs, too.

Thoughts?
« Last Edit: April 18, 2016, 06:17:12 pm by YawnChainHow »

Offline godofdeath500

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Re: Flooding+AM based unupped FG grinder https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=61803.msg1231092#msg1231092
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2016, 06:34:41 pm »
In all honesty, add in another Chrys because if that single one gets killed, you're in trouble. Take out the lone RT, it won't help too much. And AM works best with Vampire.. But i see where you are going with this.
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Re: Flooding+AM based unupped FG grinder https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=61803.msg1231093#msg1231093
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2016, 06:40:20 pm »
I think the lone reverse time is a backup in case eternity is the last card, and that the chry is only really there to be rewind fodder. I assumed this was a deckout deck to be honest, rather than a poison spam deck

Offline Manuel

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Re: Flooding+AM based unupped FG grinder https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=61803.msg1231097#msg1231097
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2016, 06:51:24 pm »
really nice idea.

3 shields should be enough, i will add more  :time quanta source, unupped hourglass are expensive

u really can't add  :earth without reaching 60 cards, making the winnable fg more harder due to lock your hand with earlier ss or simply not drawing cards.

morte even with purifies can be really hard with it 10 copies of poison and arsenic, without counting is rush potential

also why neptune isn't possibile? he is so smart to congeal is dragons and shockwave it after antimatter?

+rep

In all honesty, add in another Chrys because if that single one gets killed, you're in trouble. Take out the lone RT, it won't help too much. And AM works best with Vampire.. But i see where you are going with this.

chrys is needed for rewind it with eternity and not decking out, chrys can be payed with the  :water quanta of is mark, and with is 1 cost, the odds to have it in the initial hand with mulligan should be lower than photon/rol/gemfinder
« Last Edit: April 18, 2016, 06:57:46 pm by Manuel »

Offline Ginyu

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Re: Flooding+AM based unupped FG grinder https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=61803.msg1231111#msg1231111
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2016, 10:49:22 pm »
Reminds me of Chapuz' upgraded Ragequit Factory.
Do you stack enough :water during the game? I feel, having to use 2 per turn (Chry+Flooding upkeep) while only generating one could mean an annoying time bomb, if the FG doesn't deck out fast enough. It might be worth switching the Chry to a Schrödinger's cat, unless your tests show that quanta is alright.

Those Hourglasses, as pointed out before, also look like they are eating more quanta than you have.
Well thought RT in there, btw. ;) Never underestimate RNG placing your Eternity at the bottom, making you lose after a long fight.


also why neptune isn't possibile? he is so smart to congeal is dragons and shockwave it after antimatter?
The AI is scripted to CC its own antimattered creatures, and Innundation won't work against him at all.
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Offline killsdazombies

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Re: Flooding+AM based unupped FG grinder https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=61803.msg1231112#msg1231112
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2016, 10:52:15 pm »
I would try to toss in two water pillars to be honest. You do you have two entropy pendulums giving you two every other turn, but as ginyu said, unless you have 4, you could run into a situation where you cant cast chry

Offline Manuel

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Re: Flooding+AM based unupped FG grinder https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=61803.msg1231119#msg1231119
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2016, 12:29:21 am »
after trying the deck a little bit (and see paradox tu is own antimattered deja-vu) i come out with this version (is still not optimazed, i think it can be improved even more)

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ice shield with the random freezes is awesome, a lot better than dis shield (imo) that consumes your  :entropy

tried another version with the  :entropy mark, but the water quanta is more important

about hourglasses: they are probably useless.
in this deck they can't be used so soon, since the deck is big and with limited  :time quanta source (but thinking to add more  :time is a suicide) . u will probably never play it before turn 10 with my version, cutting down the deck is better than having a card that makes u drawn

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Offline YawnChainHowTopic starter

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Re: Flooding+AM based unupped FG grinder https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=61803.msg1231130#msg1231130
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2016, 03:07:55 am »
In all honesty, add in another Chrys because if that single one gets killed, you're in trouble. Take out the lone RT, it won't help too much. And AM works best with Vampire.. But i see where you are going with this.

Chrys is just here to get Eternity juggled, so you can usually play it and RT it on the same turn, and it will never get targeted. I haven't been in a situation where I had to play it early to clear my hand, but even then, the core four can't kill it if I play it. Gemini can lobo it, and that's all. AM+vamp is a nice idea, since a damage win condition is a lot faster than waiting to deck out. But Miracle and Paradox have a lot of Miracles, Ferox is a healing monster, and Gemini has Lobo for Nymphs. I'd have to try out NT+Dark pillars.

I think the lone reverse time is a backup in case eternity is the last card, and that the chry is only really there to be rewind fodder. I assumed this was a deckout deck to be honest, rather than a poison spam deck

Yep. No  :death to spam poison, and even when I modified the deck to be able to play a single Blessed Dune Scorpion, I could rarely kill with damage before the game ended.

really nice idea.

3 shields should be enough, i will add more  :time quanta source, unupped hourglass are expensive

u really can't add  :earth without reaching 60 cards, making the winnable fg more harder due to lock your hand with earlier ss or simply not drawing cards.

morte even with purifies can be really hard with it 10 copies of poison and arsenic, without counting is rush potential

also why neptune isn't possibile? he is so smart to congeal is dragons and shockwave it after antimatter?

Yea Morte is a scary rusher and the Purifies I'd have to add to make them a consistent draw would probably not be worth it.

Not only is Neptune smart enough to deal with his own Anti'd creatures, all of his creatures are  :water so they don't die to Flooding, and eventually he will overwhelm the shield. I think. I barely have enough Quanta to balance out Gemini's 2 Drags + 2 Immortals + Lobo as is. Neptune has Squids lock his Antis even if he doesn't shock them, I don't know if he does, I've skipped him from the start.

Reminds me of Chapuz' upgraded Ragequit Factory.
Do you stack enough :water during the game? I feel, having to use 2 per turn (Chry+Flooding upkeep) while only generating one could mean an annoying time bomb, if the FG doesn't deck out fast enough. It might be worth switching the Chry to a Schrödinger's cat, unless your tests show that quanta is alright.

Those Hourglasses, as pointed out before, also look like they are eating more quanta than you have.

I would try to toss in two water pillars to be honest. You do you have two entropy pendulums giving you two every other turn, but as ginyu said, unless you have 4, you could run into a situation where you cant cast chry

Two Entropy pends plus Water mark averages out to 2 :water per turn, and matches upkeep of Chrys+Flooding perfectly. There's no race condition here, since you don't have to start juggling before you've drawn all your cards. I have killed myself in the my first few games by playing too many Freezes with Flooding up early on though...

HGs probably aren't worth it in a pure deckout version of the deck, yeah.

after trying the deck a little bit (and see paradox tu is own antimattered deja-vu) i come out with this version (is still not optimazed, i think it can be improved even more)

ice shield with the random freezes is awesome, a lot better than dis shield (imo) that consumes your  :entropy

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The one thing I like about Diss is that you are guaranteed an EM vs the core four unless Gemini plays a Momentum'd creature on the very last turn. With Ice Shield, you still can EM, but a last turn creature is a lot easier to happen than a last turn creature+momentum. Still, if an Ice Shield version boosts the winrate against Incarnate enough without hurting the others, I will have to give it a try.

But all the EMs cause your score to stay about even on average, which I think is cool for an unupped FG grinder. Even though FG grinding with the Chapuz Vulture deck for electrum then AI3 grinding to repair your score is better in every way. This deck is just completely brainless to play once it gets set up. Great for using while doing something else.

There are lots of AI quirks that get abused to make the deck work. Miracle and Paradox will continue blessing their biggest attacker even if it's frozen, so you can chain freeze into AM to save yourself some pain. Incarnate comes down entirely to AMing Bloodsuckers that he plays in his unflooded slots and waiting for them to kill themselves before AMing anything else, since otherwise he will just poison the AM'd vamp and you are doomed. FFQ is impossible to stick an AM on because EE, so you it use to draw out Fire Lances on her creatures instead.

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Re: Flooding+AM based unupped FG grinder https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=61803.msg1231978#msg1231978
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2016, 06:53:17 pm »
This looks like an ok deck. Not sure what exactly you were trying to get at here, but it certainly does look like fun. Let me point out first of all that that's quite a few entropy pillars for just six Antimatters and some dissipation shields, I'd go with about half of those, or cut one or two of the Antimatters for a couple nymphs if you have any, but that's just me. Also, I noticed the two entropy pends. I don't think those are needed either, because I would really just got with 2 or 3 pillars. (Again, that's just me). I like the idea of the flooding. The eternity seems like a good idea too in case the FG wastes their quanta on a big creature. It's always fun to just rewind it and wait for it all over again, just to do the same thing. Overall, I think this is a good idea, I really like the aspect of it! :D
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