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stealth15psi

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Flooding FG Killer https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32269.msg407722#msg407722
« on: October 10, 2011, 10:07:57 pm »
With flooding being useful now I tried to make a FalseGod deck that would handle the ones that don't use explosions or steal.  Here's what I have, and it works pretty good.  I would like to speed it up a little bit, sometimes I get stuck for quanta early and can't play a dimensional shield fast enough, but generally it does ok, just looking for ways to improve it.  I think upgrading to phase shields will make a big difference, but figured I'd throw it out here and see if I am overlooking something that might help a lot.
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4sa 4sa 52k 52n 55q 592 5ia 5ih 5up 61t 61t 61t 61t 61t 61t 621 621 621 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 74b 7am 7k2 7n3 7q5 7q5 7q5 7q5 7q5 7q8 8ps


The combo, in a nutshell, is Flooding all creatures to feed a Quint/Momentum Vulture, graveyard keeps refilling with more creatures, and the vulture grows and grows.  The Oty helps clean up the difficult creatures, and the Firefly queen gives you fireflys to recycle with Eternity so you don't deck out.  In a pinch you can Eternity a skele to get a creature if your queen is buried, but if eternity is on bottom you are screwed.

I need to test it more and tweak it, but it seems viable so far.  Some of the gods are auto-quit, like if they have more than 4 explosion/steal.  A few others can be beaten with some luck but not with real good odds, like seism, dark matter, and obliterator.  Tell me what you think, Thanks!






Final version with all upgrades and some tweaking
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6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6u3 6u3 714 717 74a 74b 77i 77i 77i 77i 7am 7gq 7h1 7k2 7n3 7q5 7q5 7q5 7q5 7q8 80d 80d 80d 80d 80d 80d 80h 80h 80h 81q 81q 81q 81q 81q 81q 8ps


SilentFH

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Re: Flooding FG Killer https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32269.msg408478#msg408478
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2011, 07:19:45 am »
Hmm no replies yet? A pity, this does look like a decent farmer, or could become better.

Firstly, going to supply you a link to an old FG farmer that is somewhat similar to yours http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,1615.0.html
I used to play a mostly upgraded variant of this and It did good enough until I moved onto a CCYB variant.

Secondly, Though I haven't tested it, there are several problems here with your deck.

-You are using FAR too much aether quanta with a deck that doesn't reliably produce it.
-You are failing to use a very good shield to take advantage of flooding (Bone wall)
-You could be putting those skeletons generated from boneyard to better use.

I think your deck could use the following.
-A fallen Druid
This will help against several false gods. It may help in making akebono slightly more beatable, while converting your skele's into far better creatures, or turning things such as pufferfish into safe to eat creatures for your otyugh.
-Bonewall
This should be obvious. Against incarnate and neptune, this shield is capable of reaching some ridiculous numbers, while a very good defense against many other FG's.

Maybe try this to start with.
-1 momentum: You won't need this. If a shield is blocking you, just use eternity to rewind your own creatures until you can overcome it.
-1 Quint: Too many. Some creatures you won't need to quint. generally 2 quinted creatures, depending on the match will see you through.
-4 supernova: This might be a personal preference here. I'm not so sure how useful they are to you. In this sort of deck I'd use Quantum towers, but I can see some advantage to it, so up to you if you change them for quantum towers.
-4 Phase shield: Just too much aether usage.
-1 Miracle: You should have otherways to regenerate your health, as long term options.
-1 Electrum Hourglass: Too many for a 40 card build.

+4 sundial: Uses up light quanta, good use of time quanta. More temporary stall than dimensional shield, but also helps get through your deck quicker.
+4 quantum tower: Pillars will do if you can't replace them with the upgraded tower, for now.
+1 Fallen druid: Make some outrageous mutants. Also may help PC if you get a mutant with steal/destroy
+1 Elite Otyugh: Eating things as soon as possible is very important vs most gods.
+1 Bonewall: Enjoy a never ending supply of bones to protect you.
+1 Feral Bond: More healing

I think this should do for a start. It's a lot more similar to the FG farmer I linked you too, and will probably require some adjustment in order to play, but I feel the changes will help while also keeping your original idea. In order to stay alive though, you'll have to take much more damage at the start before trying to chain sundials or use those dimensional shields (This will vary between the FG's, as some with large weapons will require the chain of sundials to start earlier) (Save the bonewall for as long as possible). The only other thing is that with bonewall and flooding, timing of playing both will be pretty crucial.

One other thing to note: If you do use the druid, keep in mind any FG with Twin universe will take advantage of larger mutants made, which can backfire very badly depending on the element of the mutant.

Upgrades: Agreed that you should upgrade the phase shields. Towers next maybe.

Hope this helps.

stealth15psi

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Re: Flooding FG Killer https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32269.msg408809#msg408809
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2011, 11:54:06 pm »
Thank you for such a well thought out response.  The deck you linked to (scaredgirl's deck) was one of the inspirations that led me down this path.  I used it for a while, and liked it, along with some others like rol/hope, why bother, and ohtk.  You have some good suggestions I will take into consideration.  Her deck is great and won me some cards, but was just looking to make something different.  I thought hard about adding a bonewall, but couldnt justify it because once I start chaining the phase shields they generally last me to the end (I have upgraded 6 of them since I posted this) and didn't see a need for it.  I would love to add a druid but I am looking to probably remove cards instead of add them to slim it down a bit.
I disagree about taking out momentum, though, it is imperative for the vulture to get through the shield, and one steal isn't going to cut it for permanant control.  Miracle, also, is essential for EMs after getting the phase shields going.  I will dump an hourglass though, I have been switching back and forth between 4 and 5 trying to see what works best.  Four plays too slow, five plays too fast, so I have erred on the side of caution.  If I can trim down to 35 cards four really might work better.  I will try juggling some sundials in there, also, and see how that goes. 
Next upgrades I will try substituting aether pendulums in place of supernovas and give that a go.

How it looks right now
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52k 55q 5ih 621 621 621 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 717 74b 77i 7am 7gq 7k2 7n3 7q5 7q5 7q5 7q5 7q5 7q8 80d 80d 80d 80d 80d 8ps

Offline omegareaper7

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Re: Flooding FG Killer https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32269.msg408912#msg408912
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2011, 03:13:12 am »
I would really suggest going more for the route that silentFH mentioned. Bonewall is nearly invaluable to any deck that kills creatures a lot, and druid helps to make the skeletons more then just dead creature slots. Also, he made a very valid point about supernovas, unless your basing your deck around them with entropy mark, swap for towers.
Also as he stated, momentum isn't that much use, include a pulverizer and crusader and your problem is pretty much instantly solved for 90% of gods, excluding hermes, but i don't think this, like many others, would stand much of a chance.
One more thing, i would, again like silentFH mentioned, swap at least one phase shield for a bonewall, one for jade, and maybe another for something else. There really are better choices for shields.
And on one more note, graveyard is more useful unupped because the skeletons are no more then fodder. 
Youtube.com/user/thefatcatsofray New youtube channel for videos of sorts.
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stealth15psi

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Re: Flooding FG Killer https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32269.msg408928#msg408928
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2011, 03:42:06 am »
Thank you for the reply.  The general theme I am hearing is I should just scrap the deck and go with a different strategy.  Perhaps you are right, I am probably just wasting my time with this one.  I'll save it for my little pet project and go back to grinding with something else.  Back to the drawing board.

SilentFH

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Re: Flooding FG Killer https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32269.msg408972#msg408972
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2011, 05:13:46 am »
Thank you for the reply.  The general theme I am hearing is I should just scrap the deck and go with a different strategy.  Perhaps you are right, I am probably just wasting my time with this one.  I'll save it for my little pet project and go back to grinding with something else.  Back to the drawing board.
NNNNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Dramatic No is needed)

What you are doing is quite good, and something you should keep trying to improve. The flooding idea really does take advantage of several problem aspects that SG's false god farmer cannot counter/had a hard time countering, especially I think for the following

-Osiris (No way to counter the scarab army otherwise)
-Incarnate (even easier than before)
-Morte (Turn his own graveyards against him would keep his larger creatures off the field in favour of weak skele's)
-Decay (debatable: if it got 8 siphon life in hand when at 75  :darkness quanta would mean death, but stopping him from constantly stealing from your quanta pool would be quite good, provided you could keep flooding running)
-Fire Queen/Ferox (Less healing they get from feral bonds is always nice)
-Paradox/Gemini/Elidnis (Provided a  :water creature is not TU'd, those gods only get about one turn to use their creatures they obtained from TU before losing them to flooding, provided you've got the non flooded part of the field full of less useful creatures)

Looking at your latest fix, it seems your still going for 3 quints. This I guess is okay as this does allow the potential for you to use some unkillable PC then.
Perhaps to the 38 card build, add this
+1 Butterfly effect (BE)
This would help you considerably, as you produce a large number of creatures which can be targeted by this card. Proceed to quint, and then you have PC on a stick, which would probably help against some of the more annoying FGs with permanents (Elidnis, Ferox, Neptune's accursed permafrost shields etc.). Only thing with this fix is BE would compete with the supernovas for quanta, so you may have to replace them for towers/pendulums.
+1 Elite Otyugh
Yeah, I do harp on about this, but it is entirely necessary for you to have one asap. FG's like gemini who use momentum will become easier if you have an answer to momentum earlier, while the mutants chaos lord creates (and destiny to a lesser extent) may need to be eaten at all costs before they can wipe you out, and growing creatures such as the ones elidnis have need to be eaten early. I really feel without the second you may be making some games harder for yourself when they don't need to be.

Really don't give up. No build is perfect, and ever since the SoG nerf, people might be looking to find a new FG farmer which promises great success, and the one your using may not be too far off from being a build to use, whether it be regularly or as a temporary farmer.

XesForEyes

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Re: Flooding FG Killer https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32269.msg410419#msg410419
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2011, 05:59:23 pm »
Looks really good. I might just try it.

stealth15psi

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Re: Flooding FG Killer https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32269.msg410657#msg410657
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2011, 12:29:21 am »
I have been messing with it some more, upgrading everything I can.  It performs better when upgraded like anything would.  I am not measuring it by anything scientific, I just notice that I now actually gain levels while doing false gods instead of losing them.  And profiting electrum.  It's not 100% but it does ok and I have fun playing with it.  I have done about all I can do with it, It's up to someone else to make it better.

I didn't add a bonewall because flooding allows their creatures to attack before it kills them, so the wall is used up before flooding fills it.  Not worth it.
A second oty might be ok, i tried it and it just doesnt usually live long enough without quint to be of any use.  I think of my eternity as my second oty.  If something comes out with monentum on it I send it back to his deck if I can.  I left the Graveyard upgraded because fodder causes damage too, same reason I use the upgraded queen.  Butterfly effect would be ok too, I guess.  The only problem is that there are no creatures to play it on until the endgame, and again it doesn't usually live very long.  Might be worth it, though because I don't have any permanant control at all.  Sundials didn't work either for me but maybe I just couldn't find the right ratio to make it work.  The addition of upgraded pendulums, upgraded quints, and phase shields made it easy to chain phase shields to the end.  Rarely do I run out of Phase shields by endgame.  Of course, this depends, you should have at least one hourglass out by 27-28 cards in your deck.  This is where I try to start chaining.  Bad draws do happen, but I am satisfied with what I have here and am calling it complete.  I'd like to share this in the Rainbow Deck section, should I start a thread there?

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6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6u3 6u3 714 717 74a 74b 77i 77i 77i 77i 7am 7gq 7h1 7k2 7n3 7q5 7q5 7q5 7q5 7q8 80d 80d 80d 80d 80d 80d 80h 80h 80h 81q 81q 81q 81q 81q 81q 8ps

Good chance to win against:Chaos Lord, Destiny,  Elidnis, Ferox, Fire Queen, Gemini, Incarnate, Miracle, Morte, Neptune, Osiris, Paradox, Scorpio, Serket

Small chance to win agianst: Akebono, Decay, Dream Catcher, Lionheart, Obliterator, Seism

Almost no chance against:Dark Matter, Divine Glory, Eternal Pheonix, Graviton, Hecate, Hermes, Jezebel, Octane, Rainbow

Thank you silentfh and omegareaper for your input, giving me ideas of things to experiment with.  This deck paid for itself, I started out with some cards already upgraded (towers, hourglasses, supernovas).  The rest of the upgrades I either won on spins or made by selling cards I won.

forrestugly

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Re: Flooding FG Killer https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32269.msg411036#msg411036
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2011, 04:08:31 pm »
I tried this deck on Halfbloods, i dont got that much upgraded cards, so most are unupgradded, except for hourglasses
i also played it with boneshield, and once i managed to get that out i had already won actually... it started growing up to 60shields or something

i also tried a version with 2 schroedingers cats in exchange for the firefly queen, worked pretty well too

i love this deck, it may not win as many games as other decks, but the idea is great and its fun to play

stealth15psi

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Re: Flooding FG Killer https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32269.msg411043#msg411043
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2011, 04:26:38 pm »
Thanks, man, I appreciate the feedback.  I can see bonewall working with cats.  I have good luck against halfbloods with this also.

forrestugly

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Re: Flooding FG Killer https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32269.msg411151#msg411151
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2011, 08:31:52 pm »
just pwned miracle with the basic idea of this deck.. the vulture was crazy xD



stealth15psi

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Re: Flooding FG Killer https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32269.msg411177#msg411177
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2011, 08:53:33 pm »
Very nice, hope you got a card on your spin out of that.  Darnit now I am really rethinking adding a bonewall, lol.

 

anything
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