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Offline Leebill98Topic starter

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Entropy/Gravity/Life/Earth/Death Deck (Attempt) http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=63679.msg1251820#msg1251820
« on: November 20, 2016, 03:05:25 AM »
Hey guys, I had recently came up with an idea of a deck that uses Schrodinger's Cat, Fallen Elves, Otyughs, Empathic Bond, Graveyards and Bone Walls and not to forget Pulveriser. It is a rough idea, I have tested it a few times but I wanted to get another opinion.
Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
5oj 5oj 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u6 6u6 71b 71b 74b 74b 77d 77f 77i 77i 7am 7am 7am 7do 7k2 7q5 7q5 7q5 7q8 7q9 7q9 7q9 7q9 7q9 7q9 7t9 7t9 8ps


Also on another note, I had concerns that the deck may not work so I was thinking of recreating a deck similar to what the Level 3 Eldar (Time/Gravity/Life) uses while adding Entropy and Earth. Same cards as the deck above but while using Otyughs, I could also use Pharoahs and Scarabs. This is a rough idea though.

While I'm thinking of it, is there any way I can test any of the decks? I have been thinking of using the Trainer, however I am unsure if I am allowed due to it being under development (in the beta stages (or alpha I get the two confused)).

EDIT: I have dropped the Pharoah idea, and am attempting of creating an FG Rainbow Killer, using the deck above.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2016, 11:06:51 PM by Leebill98 »

Offline Aves

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Re: Entropy/Gravity/Life/Earth/Death Deck (Attempt) http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=63679.msg1251824#msg1251824
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2016, 03:39:31 AM »
The bigger and more complicated your attempted combo is, the harder it is to simply draw the right cards, and the slower your deck will be. This problem is compounded by the number of elements you're trying to fit in here. There are two (very different) ways to deal with this.

Spoiler for Method One: Simplify and Minimize:
First, you could simplify your deck down to its core, main idea. Is it to create powerful mutants? Focus on the fallen elves, with 5-6 copies, and build around that. Get rid of the things that aren't helping towards that goal. Add in a spread of cheap or cost-less creatures for your elves to mutate. Maximum 30 cards (to maximize draw chances of your key cards), with between a third and a half of that being pillars or pendulums/quanta production. Consider nova.

Is it to create an never-ending bonewall from otyughs and death effects? Again, focus on the key cards. Maximize your draw chance of getting them. This means both maximizing the number of key cards you have (6 each) and minimizing your total deck size (30). Adjust as necessary to fit in your supporting cards and quanta production.

The best (or at least, fastest and most efficient) decks are the simplest ones.

Spoiler for Method Two: Add Stall and Streamline:
Second, you could add in tons of drawing and stalling power. Transitioning into a stall will allow you to slow down your opponents long enough to actually play out your combo. Time is great for this, with sundials and electrum hourglasses. To maximize your chances of drawing these draw accelerators, you'll want to start with 6 each and adjust as you go.

Draw power alone isn't enough, however. You'll still need defensive cards to make sure you can survive a long time; healing cards like light's sanctuary, and control cards like fire's rain of fire or aether's lightning will help. This will then lead to the problem posed by the points I made above; you are using five elements here. Adding in time, and then light (for sundials) will add even more, and then the more you try to add, the less efficient your deck will become, especially with so many different quantum types.

Luckily, there is a card that excels at producing tons of quanta of different types: The Quantum Pillar! At this point, you might as well transition into a rainbow, and use all twelve elements. Ditch the element-specific quanta production, and go all out with quantum pillars. With QP, you then want to balance your element usage to get the most out of what you're producing. From darkness, steal will help you deal with annoying permanents. From earth, plate armor will buff your otyughs, or earthquake will slow own your opponent.

Continue adding in useful and powerful cards from each element until you have a roughly even balance of usage. At this point, you'll have a lot of bloat; cards that you simply have too many of, or that aren't as useful as you thought. Get rid of these, as best you can.

Once you have finished this very vague process, this will lead you to something similar to the classic ScaredGirl's Ultimate False God Killing Deck or its slightly less ancient and almost completely unupgraded successor.

Lastly, feel free to use the trainer to test decks. That's what it's made for! The current trainer is in the 1.4 beta patch, yes, but there shouldn't be a difference in what the AI does.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2016, 03:54:24 AM by Aves »
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Offline Leebill98Topic starter

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Re: Entropy/Gravity/Life/Earth/Death Deck (Attempt) http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=63679.msg1251829#msg1251829
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2016, 06:35:05 AM »
Ok, I have read your methods Aves (roughly about 2 hours ago) and I think I may have made a suitable deck. There is some problems I have noticed such as Immolation being useless. I have tested this deck against level 3s, it had defeated them with ease WHEN I had started with several QPs.

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4vm 4vm 4vm 52n 52n 52r 55r 55r 55r 58t 58t 58t 592 592 5c6 5c6 5f4 5f8 5f9 5ia 5ih 5lj 5lk 5lm 5rk 5ro 5rp 5up 5up 5ut 8pj


I left the Mark Entropy as frankly I have no idea what Mark to use. Also, Flooding may look useless but trust me, paired up with Fallen Elves, Graveyard and Bone Wall, it is truly powerful. Against the Level 3s, I had won 4 times out 10 (however, 2 battles I knew I couldn't win from the start and I forfieted). The other 4 times was when I had a bad draw (generally with Immolation and no pillars for a while).

I am going to swap  the Immolation for Nova, and one Plate Armor for Nova, I shall report the findings soon.

EDIT- Eternity is used for Creature Control (CC), Purity for Poison, Empathic Bond for Healing, Sanctuary for additional Healing (and Discord) Minor Vampire for Healing again, Steal (self-explantory (Permanent Control), Hope for additional Shield paired with Skeletons and Luciferin, Sundial for additional drawing.

I shall remove the other Plate Armor and replace it with for Lobotomizer and Mindgate ?

Offline Gandora

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Re: Entropy/Gravity/Life/Earth/Death Deck (Attempt) http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=63679.msg1251835#msg1251835
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2016, 10:45:27 AM »
I took your second version and slimmed it down a bit:

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4sa 4vm 4vm 4vm 52n 52n 52r 52r 55r 55r 55r 55r 58t 592 5c6 5c6 5f8 5ih 5ol 5rl 5up 5up 8pl


No vampire because a single one simply isn't enough damage or heal to be worth it imo.
If you have it, use owl's eye, if not, any other weapon you have. But it's a better replacement for firebolt. I swapped out eternity for an hourglass because you usually want to eat creatures to power bone wall not send them back (admittedly, it's an okay handlock but 3 quanta a turn can still become costly).

I kept flooding because you said you like it. Optionally you can add a purify making the deck 31 cards which is fine because of hourglass, or replace the flooding for it to keep size at 30.

I added another bone wall because only one is little and with 2 it's okay if you waste one early against faster decks. Another Otyugh, for drawing chances, you want to eat early and every turn, so I changed mark to  :gravity. I tested it few times and you can try to change it to  :death to power bone walls faster as they are very expensive. The rest is more or less still your deck. If you feel it lacks quanta too often, try to go 31/32 cards and add more pillars.
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Offline Leebill98Topic starter

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Re: Entropy/Gravity/Life/Earth/Death Deck (Attempt) http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=63679.msg1251881#msg1251881
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2016, 11:03:20 PM »
I really wished I saw this earlier, BEFORE I had the bright idea to recreate the deck using Aves method 2. This is what I had got, Vampire, I am thinking of chucking out, Eternity has saved me heaps of times, same with Electrocutor. Deck needs more Steal, Miracle turned the tide of battles, pretty quickly and at times granted me a EM win. This is the deck results, below (with the deck itself).

NOTE: The deck is upgraded, purely to see how well it works upped and I am planning to take it on against the FGs soon.

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6u3 6u3 6u6 6u6 6u6 717 717 71b 74b 74b 74b 77d 77i 77i 7am 7am 7do 7gq 7h1 7k2 7k3 7k4 7k6 7q4 7q8 7q9 7t9 7t9 7td 80e 8pj


This deck absolutely smashes Level 3s, and does pretty good (to me) against Level 4s. The results are against Level 4s only.

Wins-4                                                                                                       Losses-6
Auirofuze                                                                                                   Vitiel (Poison?)
Dissa                                                                                                         Shades-(Sky Blitz with Black Dragon, Azure Dragon)
                                                                                                                  Arisa-2x Unstable Gas
EM                                                                                                             Shadsa-Chimera
Teres-1 (BW,Flood,Feral,Druid(2x))                                                          Aquara
Pyrow-1(Miracle,Luciferase,Eternity(about to deck out))                          Vitrius
                                                                                                                 
I shall make some more changes (including some of your changes Gandora, and I will retest it again. Sorry for the late reply? I think, either you/the website is in a different timezone or you somehow time travelled about 45 minutes into the future to reply, unless if I time travelled backwards.... Somehow.

Offline Gandora

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Re: Entropy/Gravity/Life/Earth/Death Deck (Attempt) http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=63679.msg1251886#msg1251886
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2016, 11:14:16 PM »
I really wished I saw this earlier, BEFORE I had the bright idea to recreate the deck using Aves method 2. This is what I had got, Vampire, I am thinking of chucking out, Eternity has saved me heaps of times, same with Electrocutor. Deck needs more Steal, Miracle turned the tide of battles, pretty quickly and at times granted me a EM win. This is the deck results, below (with the deck itself).

If you replace Lobotomizer with Ulitharid you can have both effects at the same time.

NOTE: The deck is upgraded, purely to see how well it works upped and I am planning to take it on against the FGs soon.

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6u3 6u3 6u6 6u6 6u6 717 717 71b 74b 74b 74b 77d 77i 77i 7am 7am 7do 7gq 7h1 7k2 7k3 7k4 7k6 7q4 7q8 7q9 7t9 7t9 7td 80e 8pj


This deck absolutely smashes Level 3s, and does pretty good (to me) against Level 4s. The results are against Level 4s only.

Isn't it quite the overkill to fight against lvl 3 (and slow in comparison to others)?

Wins-4                                                                                                       Losses-6
Auirofuze                                                                                                   Vitiel (Poison?)
Dissa                                                                                                         Shades-(Sky Blitz with Black Dragon, Azure Dragon)
                                                                                                                  Arisa-2x Unstable Gas
EM                                                                                                             Shadsa-Chimera
Teres-1 (BW,Flood,Feral,Druid(2x))                                                          Aquara
Pyrow-1(Miracle,Luciferase,Eternity(about to deck out))                          Vitrius
                                                                                                                 
I shall make some more changes (including some of your changes Gandora, and I will retest it again. Sorry for the late reply? I think, either you/the website is in a different timezone or you somehow time travelled about 45 minutes into the future to reply, unless if I time travelled backwards.... Somehow.

Lol, I think I'm GMT+1? But sure, let me know how it works with some changes. Btw consider an unupped firefly queen. Its Fireflies give you :light quanta for miracles, power up hope and you get more creatures for feral bond/otyugh/graveyard/bonewall. And yes, I agree with -vampire + steal (or dusk mantle if you want another shield :p)
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Re: Entropy/Gravity/Life/Earth/Death Deck (Attempt) http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=63679.msg1251891#msg1251891
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2016, 12:24:46 AM »
Holy... This deck made a massive jump from 40% win rate (with 20% EM rate with another 20% equals 40%), to a 30% EM rate, with a doubled win rate (from before) 40%, to 70% win rate against Level 4s. Here is the deck again just modified I call it version 3.0.

NOTE- The win rate test was done once, I had only lost if I had drawn bad cards with 2 or less pillars,  and when the AI had drawn a winning card (e.g Black Dragon+Azure Dragon+Sky Blitz=Lost)

Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6u3 6u3 6u6 6u6 6u6 717 717 71b 71b 74b 74b 74b 77d 77i 77i 7am 7am 7do 7gq 7h1 7k2 7k3 7k4 7k6 7q5 7q8 7q9 7t9 7t9 7t9 80e 8ps


Total Wins-7
Wins                                                                                             
Aquaes-(BW, Druid, Flood ,Graveyard)
Chriel
Aquasa
Lumow

EM Wins-3
Chrcord-BW,Druid,Flood,Graveyard,Hourglass, (Feral?)
Vitra-(BW, Graveyard, Hourglass, Elite Otyugh)
Aquarius-(BW, Graveyard, Hourglass, Druid, Elite Otyugh)

Losses
Aquaeric
Lumra
Shaderic-(One QP, Horrible draws afterwards)

The Hourglass, was a beauty in battles (even though I did sometimes forget to use it), and the second Bone Wall was a great idea. What card/s do I remove for FFQ, so it can be used in the unupped deck? Same cards just unupped. Admittedly, I had forgotten FFQ, but it is either me or Miracle, Feral Bonds, and Flooding (and upped version) are essential.

Any ideas how this deck will work against FGs? Should be.... fun, I will try and report (again) the results, using the upped version of course. I really apperciate the help Gandora, I admittedly thought either my post went missing (when it said no new replies even though you had replied), or the website ate my post (which has happened before, but not on this website.... yet).

Offline Gandora

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Re: Entropy/Gravity/Life/Earth/Death Deck (Attempt) http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=63679.msg1251893#msg1251893
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2016, 12:48:09 AM »
Holy... This deck made a massive jump from 40% win rate (with 20% EM rate with another 20% equals 40%), to a 30% EM rate, with a doubled win rate (from before) 40%, to 70% win rate against Level 4s. Here is the deck again just modified I call it version 3.0.

NOTE- The win rate test was done once, I had only lost if I had drawn bad cards with 2 or less pillars,  and when the AI had drawn a winning card (e.g Black Dragon+Azure Dragon+Sky Blitz=Lost)

Spoiler for Hidden:
Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6u3 6u3 6u6 6u6 6u6 717 717 71b 71b 74b 74b 74b 77d 77i 77i 7am 7am 7do 7gq 7h1 7k2 7k3 7k4 7k6 7q5 7q8 7q9 7t9 7t9 7t9 80e 8ps


Total Wins-7
Wins                                                                                             
Aquaes-(BW, Druid, Flood ,Graveyard)
Chriel
Aquasa
Lumow

EM Wins-3
Chrcord-BW,Druid,Flood,Graveyard,Hourglass, (Feral?)
Vitra-(BW, Graveyard, Hourglass, Elite Otyugh)
Aquarius-(BW, Graveyard, Hourglass, Druid, Elite Otyugh)

Losses
Aquaeric
Lumra
Shaderic-(One QP, Horrible draws afterwards)

The Hourglass, was a beauty in battles (even though I did sometimes forget to use it), and the second Bone Wall was a great idea. What card/s do I remove for FFQ, so it can be used in the unupped deck? Same cards just unupped. Admittedly, I had forgotten FFQ, but it is either me or Miracle, Feral Bonds, and Flooding (and upped version) are essential.

Well, since your :light quanta would come from fireflies, I suggest to remove luciferase. Note thatn I'd remove the super nova in the unupped version and use quantum pillars instead. Also, in the upped version, I'd personally use the unupped sundial to make sure you don't screw mulligan. Side note: Why did you not replace Electrocutor for Ulitharid (= upped mind flyer)

Any ideas how this deck will work against FGs? Should be.... fun, I will try and report (again) the results, using the upped version of course. I really apperciate the help Gandora, I admittedly thought either my post went missing (when it said no new replies even though you had replied), or the website ate my post (which has happened before, but not on this website.... yet).

No idea how it will work against FGs. I assume that it's too slow setting up its defense, so probably rather bad? But who knows, go test it and have fun ^^

EDIT: on a less related (and admittedly self-advertising note): if you want to go unupped against lvl 4, I recommend this deck. I always liked the concept and enjoyed playing it :)
« Last Edit: November 21, 2016, 12:50:31 AM by Gandora »
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Offline Leebill98Topic starter

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Re: Entropy/Gravity/Life/Earth/Death Deck (Attempt) http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=63679.msg1251897#msg1251897
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2016, 01:30:19 AM »
Hmm... Good point, Supernova is used purely for the extra quanta at the start (which is very useful). With Luciferase should I drop it from the unupped deck or the upped deck? Same with Nova. I had admittedly over looked Mind Flayer but I will try it out, gives me a chance to keep Enternity as it takes forever to use (bad pun)

That is one of the weaknesses of this deck, it has a slow start with no defense, but makes up for it with Bone Wall, Flood and Graveyard. Nice deck though, Gandora. I quite like it, simple and effective yet deadly. I may use it, if I can stop using my Gravity/Earth deck (I am a sucker for those types). Talking about my deck, any way to improve it? So I can gain Electrum faster for upgrades and buying new cards for Rainbow Decl that I am making. Can't think of a name for the Rainbow as yet, any ideas?

Spoiler for Hidden:
Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55l 55l 55l 55l 55o 55o 55o 55p 55q 55q 55r 55r 55r 55t 58t 58t 77d 77f 77i 77i 8pm
Quite a effective deck, does alright in Level 3 and Bronze Arena

Offline Leebill98Topic starter

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Re: Entropy/Gravity/Life/Earth/Death Deck (Attempt) http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=63679.msg1251900#msg1251900
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2016, 03:30:24 AM »
I have finally tested the deck against FGs. It was horrible. The battles of each FG in order is;

Spoiler for Hidden:
Chaos Lord-Loss
Octane-Loss-Loss-(Rage Quit)
Dark Matter-Loss-(Black Hole)
Gemini-Loss
Akebono-Loss
Octane-(Almost won, defeated by Unstable Gas)-Loss
Eternal Phoenix-Loss
Hecate-Loss
Jezebel-Loss
Jezebel-Loss
Paradox-Loss
Then change Mark from Time to Entropy
Akebono-Loss
Osiris-Loss
Scorpio-Loss
Akebono-Loss
Hecate-Loss
Incarnate-Loss
Miracle-Win (Finally)

Is there any way that the deck can be fixed, in order to at least have a higher success rate against the FGs? The Rainbow deck is;
Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6u3 6u3 6u6 6u6 6u6 717 717 71b 71b 74b 74b 74b 77d 77i 77i 7am 7am 7do 7gq 7gv 7h1 7k2 7k3 7k4 7k6 7q5 7q8 7q9 7t9 7t9 7t9 8pj
k]

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Re: Entropy/Gravity/Life/Earth/Death Deck (Attempt) http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=63679.msg1251901#msg1251901
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2016, 04:01:51 AM »
Try to balance out the costs of the cards that you're using. Two Graveyards and two bonewalls add up to 20 :death. On the other hand, 3 steals is only 9 :darkness, and 1 FFQ would only be 6 :air. You produce quanta more or less uniformly, so it's better if your usage matches your production. Is it worth it to run both Miracle and Hope in the same deck, when those two alone cost 20 :light and you don't have a reliable way of stacking that? Ditto with three otyughs costing 15 :gravity. One quick change would be to replace a graveyard with a FFQ. This reduces your :death usage from 20 to 14, and increases your :air usage from 0 to 6. There's a lot you can experiment with to find a good balance! It doesn't have to be perfect, mind-- only enough so that you're able to produce enough quanta to play what you draw.

Also make sure if the cards you add are worth the space they take up. Have you noticed many games where inundation or luci+hope have turned the tide? Consider replacing the less powerful or useful cards you have for more draw power (sundials are great! You can never have enough draw power in a stall.) or quanta (rule of thumb, ~1/3 of your deck should be quanta production. For a more detailed theory, see the Quanta Index).

As for facing False Gods, I wouldn't recommend it, to be honest. Your deck idea is actually very similar to one of the original False God grinders way back in 2009, which I linked to in my first post. It actually still works against the same old gods that it used to, but the addition of new FGs and changes in the game since then have made it very inefficient compared to other options. Here's another variant of that, if you want to check it out for ideas-- and it'll still work to a degree, but I stress that it's considered obsolete for a reason.

On an unrelated note, you can fix your timezone issue by setting yours up somewhere in your profile settings.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2016, 04:05:45 AM by Aves »
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Offline Leebill98Topic starter

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Re: Entropy/Gravity/Life/Earth/Death Deck (Attempt) http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=63679.msg1251903#msg1251903
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2016, 04:28:55 AM »
I shall drop one Graveyard and Bone Wall, and switch in one FFQ, while dropping one Otyugh, and one Hope. I have dropped it into the Game Simulator and I have gone from 5% to 8% in 100 rounds when battling false gods. I shall try the deck out myself. I had admittedly forgot about the QI even though I had bookmarked it, into my browser. Really? Wow... Definitely explains a lot, perhaps I should just leave the FG decks to people who know what they are doing.

Thanks for the timezone link. This is the build I have now, I shall let you know if and when I defeat the first FG
Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
5oj 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6qq 6u3 6u3 6u6 6u6 6u6 717 71b 74b 74b 77d 77i 77i 7am 7am 7do 7gq 7gv 7h1 7k2 7k6 7q5 7q8 7q9 7q9 7q9 7t9 7t9 7t9 8pj

 

blarg: