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Offline shockcannon

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Re: Patient Wardens for all War Teams http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=66330.msg1280126#msg1280126
« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2018, 11:36:11 pm »
Dusk mantle, vampire stiletto, and steal. GG SoPa and SoFree decks.
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Offline iancudorinmarian

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Re: Patient Wardens for all War Teams http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=66330.msg1280133#msg1280133
« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2018, 07:15:51 am »
Dusk mantle, vampire stiletto, and steal. GG SoPa and SoFree decks.
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Re: Patient Wardens for all War Teams http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=66330.msg1280141#msg1280141
« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2018, 09:15:42 am »
And just by presenting them as viable war decks... you are kind of marking the strategy as OP.

Disagree here. OP in my book means creating an imbalance within teams. I actually think with shards allowed other than air's all war teams are MORE balanced than without. Nova graboid is usable for all teams. It is strong, but not OP (no matter how much I hate team earth's grabbows, I know i just have to deal with them.
So, theoretically, adding a 0 cost creature with 666 attack and shield bypass would not make this card OP, just because any team can use it? It even has two counters: Sundial and SoSac.

A card is overpowered if it can not be ignored. Use it, counter it, or face horrible defeat. That is the definition of OP. With the creature example I just mentioned this becomes obvious, but where does one draw the line? For me, SoFree and SoPa are both well over it.

Offline Mr Muffin

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Re: Patient Wardens for all War Teams http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=66330.msg1280217#msg1280217
« Reply #15 on: September 10, 2018, 04:01:31 pm »
Last war life could have used a SoP wardens deck except ours was different. Because of matchup testing and other stuff this deck was never used.      I think for some elements the SoP decks they could make aren't strong enough to justify the cost of using SoP unless they salvage it.

Offline ddevans96

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Re: Patient Wardens for all War Teams http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=66330.msg1280226#msg1280226
« Reply #16 on: September 10, 2018, 09:36:56 pm »
A card is overpowered if it can not be ignored. Use it, counter it, or face horrible defeat. That is the definition of OP. With the creature example I just mentioned this becomes obvious, but where does one draw the line? For me, SoFree and SoPa are both well over it.

But this is exactly why SoFr is so much worse - because other elements can't use it the way Air can, they can usually only counter it or lose. It's viable for most other elements, but not the same way SoP is (or Nova/Graboid, or VDag, or Discord, etc)

SoP is still OP, but this is why there's a massive gap between SoFr and the other problem cards (which is not just SoP, even if it does lead that pack)
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Offline Manuel

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Re: Patient Wardens for all War Teams http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=66330.msg1280230#msg1280230
« Reply #17 on: September 10, 2018, 11:26:04 pm »
about what war are u talking?

last war bows like this (or with nymphs>boid)

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4vh 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 55t 590 590 590 5oc 5oc 5oc 5og 5og 5ol 5ol 77g 7dm 7hi 7hi 7mt 7mt 7mt 7mt 7mt 7mt 7mu 7mu 8pm


and darkdom was the mvp for air, they played sofree only against gens and aether or something like that
if with that insane price sofree is still broken idk what to say, u are all implying i start every round 1-0 with it, which isn't true
last war sofree got a lot of wins because every match with it was planned, isn't a card u can use brainless and get the ez win, do u think if u switch the roster of some team of the last year with the air one u get the same exact war?

i waste a lot of money for them + i predict the match up + i don't missplay etc = i deserve the win, i think is totally normal
u can't blame sofree if someone wasted tons of money for """veterans""" players rather than for cards and some elements got nerfed by market prices

Offline ddevans96

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Re: Patient Wardens for all War Teams http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=66330.msg1280231#msg1280231
« Reply #18 on: September 11, 2018, 12:11:17 am »
if with that insane price sofree is still broken idk what to say
...
i waste a lot of money for them + i predict the match up + i don't missplay etc = i deserve the win, i think is totally normal

I agree that it wasn't broken last War, just very strong. The point is that it needed such a high price just to be close to balanced. If we started with an empty slate, SoFr would need many more restrictions than any other card to be balanced - last War accomplished this, previous Wars didn't.

last war bows like this (or with nymphs>boid) and darkdom was the mvp for air

Grabbows and dark domins have been MVPs for many teams over the years. I still don't see how people think SoP is so much worse than that.
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Re: Patient Wardens for all War Teams http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=66330.msg1280232#msg1280232
« Reply #19 on: September 11, 2018, 12:59:35 am »
passing to war 10 and 5 matches sofree at only 120 (really it was so cheap?) to war 11, 4 matches and sofree at 400 is perfectly fine i think, it was a huge jump

i can agree to a 450/500 price IF this war will be with only 3 matches/round (but i don't think looking at three man pvp and his 10 teams)

Offline iancudorinmarian

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Re: Patient Wardens for all War Teams http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=66330.msg1280239#msg1280239
« Reply #20 on: September 11, 2018, 05:17:01 am »
This discussion is like

Water players: "SoFr is broken, only air can use it, SoP is balanced, everyone can use it!"

Air players: "No u"

Everyone else: "Both are broken af"

I'm with the majority of everyone else here and I'd be incredibly happy to see both SoFr and SoP outright banned or heavily cripple the vault of those who dare to buy it.

Offline Basman-1453

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Re: Patient Wardens for all War Teams http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=66330.msg1280240#msg1280240
« Reply #21 on: September 11, 2018, 06:54:55 am »
This discussion is like

Water players: "SoFr is broken, only air can use it, SoP is balanced, everyone can use it!"

Air players: "No u"

Everyone else: "Both are broken af"

I'm with the majority of everyone else here and I'd be incredibly happy to see both SoFr and SoP outright banned or heavily cripple the vault of those who dare to buy it.

Well summarised. Truth be told, I believe this thread inadvertently proves that Patience is more over the line than Freedom. This is not to say that Freedom is not past the line, however; it's still well past that line. It's just that while Freedom is wildly past that line for those few deck types, Patience is a tad less wildly past that line for a much broader deck types.
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Re: Patient Wardens for all War Teams http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=66330.msg1280241#msg1280241
« Reply #22 on: September 11, 2018, 07:39:23 am »
This discussion is like

Water players: "SoFr is broken, only air can use it, SoP is balanced, everyone can use it!"

1) I'm not a water player and haven't been for two years
2) At no point have I called it balanced - quite the opposite
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Re: Patient Wardens for all War Teams http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=66330.msg1280252#msg1280252
« Reply #23 on: September 11, 2018, 11:15:50 am »
This discussion is like

Water players: "SoFr is broken, only air can use it, SoP is balanced, everyone can use it!"

1) I'm not a water player and haven't been for two years
2) At no point have I called it balanced - quite the opposite
So uhh the statement holds true then


SoFree is broken because it's strong but only Air can use it
SoPa is broken because it's strong and everyone can use it

:)

 

blarg: