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Elements the Game => Arena Bug => Report In-game Issues => Confirmed Arena Bugs => Topic started by: RavingRabbid on September 17, 2015, 07:09:28 pm

Title: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: RavingRabbid on September 17, 2015, 07:09:28 pm
Oh boy:

Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: andretimpa on September 17, 2015, 07:21:50 pm
All normal here (can't say anything about the reward, as I don't know how much it was).
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: Dm on September 17, 2015, 09:32:20 pm
Just submitted a deck, insta rank 64
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: bripod on September 17, 2015, 09:57:39 pm
Earlier today I checked my deck to see how it was doing and then an hour later I saw that it had been challenged over 10x... Quite odd for Plat...
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: willng3 on September 23, 2015, 04:27:26 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/ngSOPJ3.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/dglzX3S.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/ChwDhn4.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/z4CuBYN.png)

Seems legit
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: UndeadSpider1990 on September 24, 2015, 03:53:44 am
(http://i.imgur.com/ngSOPJ3.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/dglzX3S.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/ChwDhn4.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/z4CuBYN.png)

Seems legit

Wut wut, pretty sure that 1 loss on Rihards_LV was me XD
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: Manuel on April 20, 2016, 03:33:12 am
(http://i.imgur.com/1Nd05IC.png)

(http://i.imgur.com/3bwBjTh.png)


other arenas are normal, plat is totally screwed atm and talking about this in the kong chat, other players get some strange losses (like 4 or 5 in one hour, something similar to what happened to bripod in this thread)

today i got 3 loss in an hour (i was 12-0), i changed the deck, using a dark pendulum and going for a super original monodarkness: i go 3-4 in a hour (WHAT CAN BEAT 4 TIMES A FULLY UPPED MONODARK WITH 200 HP??), change to free daggers, got another loss in no time.


Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: andretimpa on April 20, 2016, 03:56:12 am
If all these reports of losses are true then it is likely to be someone using a cheat, but it would probably be hard to spot who it is.
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: dragonsdemesne on April 20, 2016, 03:59:19 am
Yeah, I noticed this for the last week to week and a half or so.  I mentioned in my arena thread that my last deck seemed to have extremely strange ratings gains/losses.   My deck lasted way longer than it should have, because it was not losing much rating on a loss.  Looking at that screenshot, 162 for 1st and 83 for second is... extremely low.  The deck I have up now is 9-9 in plat (normally impossible), has rating -273 (I think normally you're out of top 500 by -200 roughly) and it's still at rank 329.  Every once in awhile this sort of thing seems to happen; perhaps some hacker is doing something to make plat really easy to farm, like setting opponent's hp to 1 every game and then running a bot to farm.
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: Solaris on April 20, 2016, 04:01:57 am
Yeah, my 200 HP ghostmare went something like 1-4 in the first few hours it was posted, so something weird is going on. Maybe Zanz will notice.
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: Sera on April 20, 2016, 04:11:25 am
I suddenly got 8 losses straight. I'm sure my deck couldn't be that bad to get 8 straight losses normally. We can only hope for the perpetrator to trigger the anti-cheat thing.
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: rob77dp on April 20, 2016, 05:29:24 am
I have a purify/SoP spammer up in Plat and it is 3-4, usually not the result when a Plat sub spams purify/SoP...
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: joebob555 on April 20, 2016, 08:25:11 am
Everything about plat right now has gone wild. I(jooe15) was talking to a guy in kong chat (Mathematistic), and he had a pretty good good explanation of what he thinks is happening. So uh.. I'll paste that too.

Leaderboard:
(http://i.imgur.com/gFNiDHF.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/YMj6C7N.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/jL55KHb.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/vk5UGmA.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/2ckRiL9.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/clGYjAi.png)


Kong Chat:
APR 20 - 12:56AM
Mathematistic: wtf is happening to plat?
Mathematistic: did someone figure out an ultra grinder?
jooe15: idk..
jooe15: no idea
APR 20 - 12:57AM
Mathematistic: I submitted a new deck and it's rank 15
Mathematistic: seriously
APR 20 - 12:58AM
Mathematistic: something's definitely wrong
jooe15: ya..
APR 20 - 1:02AM
jooe15: 1 hp decks back to being rare now :P
EirosAurora: PVP 2!
APR 20 - 1:03AM
jooe15: Why O-o
APR 20 - 1:04AM
Mathematistic: It seems that whoever this grinding guy is, he/she/it (could be a bot) has a winrate of about 30%
jooe15: Whom?
APR 20 - 1:05AM
Mathematistic: Or maybe it's just a band of people playing Pdials 24/7...
APR 20 - 1:06AM
Mathematistic: Oh and Plat is 205 now
APR 20 - 1:08AM
Mathematistic: Normally I don't visit the forums anymore, but it seems that even they are aware of the problem
Mathematistic: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/arena-bug/plat-arena-behaving-oddly/
APR 20 - 1:09AM
jooe15: I posted it in chat :S
Mathematistic: I see, yeah the frequency of plays...
APR 20 - 1:13AM
jooe15: I can understand somebody playing a ton, but that doesn't help solve why their are so many 1 hp decks
jooe15: there*
mukund135: hmm, i have a guess
APR 20 - 1:14AM
mukund135: 2 bots. one that plays and fights the good decks + auto-concedes to 1hp decks
mukund135: then another on the "main" account that simply runs through and tries to beat everyone
jooe15: ah...
APR 20 - 1:15AM
mukund135: since the 1hp decks keep winning from bot1, they get pushed up in rating and so bot2 can get them more often
APR 20 - 1:16AM
Mathematistic: Not just 1hp decks, a lot of old decks are getting uprates
jooe15: do you think bot 2 is simply a player? if so, how would we find him/her?
jooe15: it would look just like any other player
mukund135: no idea
Mathematistic: There's nothing abnormal about the winrate, the amount of plays is the wrong stat
jooe15: :/
APR 20 - 1:17AM
Mathematistic: wrong as in fishy
jooe15: Ah..
APR 20 - 1:18AM
Mathematistic: And given how easy it is to play Pdials near-optimally
Mathematistic: with a protocol
jooe15: I see...
Mathematistic: May not even be Pdials, could be Kamikaze (that explains the water mark losses)
APR 20 - 1:19AM
jooe15: Ah..
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: Calindu on April 20, 2016, 08:34:31 am
No, it's a hack most likely, let's suppose every single deck in plat is bad against PDials, that still doesn't explain how 2 bots can play so much in such a short amount of time. Most people claim that they got like 4+ losses in 1 hour, even if we take the average as 2 plays per arena deck, that's 1000 games in 1 hour, while I can estimate the average for plat at about 3500-4000 plays per day.
But that's not even the case, because a large number of decks in plat are good against PDials, making it impossible for a bot to win 8 games in a row without dropping a game(That's the case with my arena deck, which had 3 purifies splashed in an air rush).
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: joebob555 on April 20, 2016, 08:42:05 am
Ya, I guess you could be right. -- or it could just be a whole lot of bots. I should point out that a lot of people that have noticed the weirdness are taking this opportunity to grind like mad. -- which could account for some of the extra plays.
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: Sera on April 20, 2016, 12:51:56 pm
This only hurts the people who grind fairly, as the reward is sharply dropping. This is most likely a hack. The influx of 1hp decks is not because of some 2nd bot, there's no incentive in doing that at all. It's due to arena still adjusting to rating with the ridiculously high winrate bot, pushing out decks early and reviving the dead decks. Check the age of the bottom 100 decks.
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: Manuel on April 20, 2016, 04:56:15 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/2bXbiEV.png)

the situation seem a "better" now: ratings are normal, there are no longer decks with -rating
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: andretimpa on April 20, 2016, 05:25:20 pm
Still far from normal. 1HP decks are still popping up like mad. What may be happening is people skipping these new decks and hunting for the old ones, so that counteracts the bot a bit.
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: willng3 on April 20, 2016, 05:54:28 pm
This is why we can't have nice things.
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: joebob555 on April 20, 2016, 11:07:34 pm
Plat T25

Apr 20, 1:00 AM PST: The average deck was 1.41 days old with 9.36 plays(7.56W/1.80L) and a score of 17.24
Apr 20, 3:00 AM PST: The average deck was 1.32 days old with 11.16 plays(8.92W/2.24L) and a score of 66.60

Apr 20, 1:00 PM PST: The average deck was 0.92 days old with 13.08 plays(11.00W/2.08L) and a score of 255.96
Apr 20, 3:00 PM PST: The average deck was 1.12 days old with 15.36 plays(12.48W/2.88L) and a score of 274.52

Apr 21, 1:00 AM PST: The average deck was 1.92 days old with 16.56 plays(12.84W/3.72L) and a score of 353.64
Apr 21, 3:00 AM PST: The average deck was 1.88 days old with 17.52 plays(13.52W/4.00L) and a score of 328.56
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: Solaris on April 25, 2016, 02:07:29 am
(https://gyazo.com/9f698c9f16ae6c1799485f54fc78bee4.png)

[10:05:34 PM] ‹MeowMeowCat› plat has catapulted off it's rocker and currently approaches interstellar space


CREDIT TO ROOTRANGER FOR QUOTE
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: Manuel on August 01, 2017, 12:53:26 am
my deck was at 3-0 2 hours ago, then 4-3, payout at 134
time to make new deck, already got a lose, payout at 133, while i'm writing is at 132

is this normal? 3 days ago the payout was at 146, wtf
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: TribalTrouble on August 01, 2017, 03:38:04 am
my deck was at 3-0 2 hours ago, then 4-3, payout at 134
time to make new deck, already got a lose, payout at 133, while i'm writing is at 132

is this normal? 3 days ago the payout was at 146, wtf
screenshots?
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: Manuel on August 01, 2017, 05:10:35 am
for the payout thing i have found this

(http://i.imgur.com/SsToEqJ.png)

from here http://elementscommunity.org/forum/platinum-league-decks/pixelated-platinum-decks/12/, i think is from july 27 or 28, and i write this in my plat deck thread some days ago

lol 14 plays with the payout at 147

now is again at 133, maybe i was really really really unlucky, but looking at the top ten http://www.elementsthegame.com/arena.php?rank=1&league=4 the first deck has 2 lose, 2 weeks ago with 2 lose u were lucky to be in the top 10

(https://s13.postimg.org/7th9uvep3/Screenshot_19.png)

Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: phoenix1211 on August 01, 2017, 01:35:47 pm
I found it odd too, my deck went from 5-0 to 6-6 overnight, and it was still hovering around rank 270, which seems quite high for that score.
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: Higurashi on August 01, 2017, 01:53:10 pm
This is when you'll also find that new decks start around rank 100. The algorithm will reset in a while.
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: Manuel on August 02, 2017, 11:38:56 pm
(https://s1.postimg.org/wsobbqxvj/KWnkyq_Po_SLSOmz_Sfd_V12_BQ.png)

rip plat, payout is actually at 121
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: Manuel on August 17, 2018, 03:57:37 pm
my deck yesterday was at 2-0, today is 5-10, there are players in the top 25 with with less than 100 score

(https://i.imgur.com/DB8xXXH.png)
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: Wyand on August 18, 2018, 11:02:18 am
It is even better now.

(https://i.imgur.com/AaFiyuo.jpg)
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: Wyand on September 24, 2018, 01:11:58 am
How much time until Plat Arena flushes out old decks which are infesting the top50 due to the hacking? :/
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: Wyand on October 14, 2018, 09:32:55 pm
Dudes, please. Top18 in plat arena. Please, remove your buggy decks. Ruins the fun of the everchanging Platinum Arena.
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: kaempfer13 on October 14, 2018, 09:37:18 pm
is that an overflow error? score so negative it went positive?
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: Wyand on October 14, 2018, 10:03:27 pm
When the hacking stopped decks with quite bad stats (having 1:1 or worse win:lose rate) stuck in the first half
of the leaderboard. Though scores are getting normal for newer decks, old decks started to accumulate big scores like
their bronze/silver counterparts. Somehow I felt that scoring was relative back then, and they still got more points
for wins just because of their position. Strange.

I understand that ppl like to see their decks for an extended time in the top 10-25, but it is getting really boring and
frustrating for proper plat players, who doesn't care about normal deck aging. We make a new deck every week,
so what? It is a natural cycle.
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: JonathanCrazyJ on October 15, 2018, 10:11:17 am
When the hacking stopped decks with quite bad stats (having 1:1 or worse win:lose rate) stuck in the first half
of the leaderboard. Though scores are getting normal for newer decks, old decks started to accumulate big scores like
their bronze/silver counterparts. Somehow I felt that scoring was relative back then, and they still got more points
for wins just because of their position. Strange.

I understand that ppl like to see their decks for an extended time in the top 10-25, but it is getting really boring and
frustrating for proper plat players, who doesn't care about normal deck aging. We make a new deck every week,
so what? It is a natural cycle.

It isnt a hacking problem iirc, it looks like the coding is crumbling in plat like it did with silver and bronze
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: Wyand on October 15, 2018, 10:27:35 am
It isn't a direct effect of hacking, but indirect. Scoring got crazy when the hacking ruined the arena.

(Hurray, 2 decks removed - thanks guys! - only 16 left!)
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: Wyand on October 16, 2018, 08:48:18 pm
moehrpi is the true leader now, with an impressive stat of 30/0.
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: moehrpi on October 17, 2018, 11:50:00 am
moehrpi is the true leader now, with an impressive stat of 30/0.

Cheers!
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: Wyand on October 27, 2018, 11:31:25 pm
What the heck is happening again???

(https://image.ibb.co/fJUBtA/wtf-arena.png)
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: Manuel on October 27, 2018, 11:48:18 pm
everything seems right ignoring the sadness of still seeing bugged score after 60 days
alienmipey probably added that score manually or did something to increase the score he got from a win, no idea but any other score seems right for now
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: Wyand on October 30, 2018, 05:42:36 pm
Adding score manually? How? :D

Only 7 bugged decks are infesting the top 10 right now, slowly they'll disappear - at least I hope so.
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: Wyand on November 20, 2018, 07:50:52 pm
Still 5 bugged decks - dudes, pls remove them, and let the arena be refreshed with shiny new decks.
Don't forget: nothing is eternal, only the change. Let's enjoy it.
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: Wyand on November 22, 2018, 11:16:56 pm
I consider myself the leader of platinum arena. Woe to you bugged decks!!!

(https://image.ibb.co/b7xaxA/platarena.png)
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: Wyand on April 14, 2019, 11:24:15 am
Yey! After 200+ days, Plat arena is free of bugged decks! :)
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: immortal feud on April 14, 2019, 11:27:22 am
damn time to make a nice deck then
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: Wyand on April 15, 2019, 09:52:18 am
Finally! With the bugged decks gone, I was able to finally take my rightful place. :D




(https://i.ibb.co/0thvXb0/rightful.png)
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: Wyand on June 12, 2019, 12:08:08 am
What's happening again with Plat Arena? 19/1 better score than 30/1? 15/2 better than 26/1?

(https://i.ibb.co/5Mp2zQ3/arenastrange.png)
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: Wyand on July 04, 2019, 12:19:33 pm
Arena scoring is utter bullcrap.

(https://i.ibb.co/SVp3wCX/platsux.png)
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: iancudorinmarian on July 04, 2019, 12:39:18 pm
O R C H E S T R A T E D
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: Wyand on July 04, 2019, 12:56:57 pm
lol I haven't even seen that it is feud there... that cheetah! :D
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: Wyand on July 30, 2019, 10:10:23 pm
Eh, someone hacking again...?

(https://i.ibb.co/g40M3ML/hax.png)
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: kaempfer13 on July 31, 2019, 12:43:02 am
? just old decks that manage to get some wins on 1hp as  far as i can tell. not that surprising for the lightmark deck, not sure about the death deck, mine will probably fizzle out normally (didnt lose until it hit 1hp).
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: Wyand on July 31, 2019, 12:14:00 pm
Yeah, I've met those ugly miracle+sod+light dragon decks, which infest plat arena.
My concern here is that I simply don't remember this guy's name on the arena,
just popped up here quickly. Maybe I just haven't noticed it, but still, his name
(Timmorn) is not familiar. I usually notice old decks with good stats since I check standings
daily. I had no problems with the other two decks, though. (I guess the death mark
deck utilizes light pends/pillars.)
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: Wyand on August 07, 2019, 12:47:51 am
C'mon guys, don't spoil plat arena please, with these ugly light decks... :(

(https://i.ibb.co/m4PwVjp/nopls.png)
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: Wyand on May 16, 2020, 10:49:28 am
Congratulations, your ugly SoDstalls destroyed Plat Arena as well. I don't get it why is it so important to rule over the debris forever.
Shame on you toros & co, may you have only such sort of happiness in life.

Other than that if Zanz happens to pop up for one last time at least he should purge Arenas and rewrite scoring, because it is pretty annoying
how age and the number of wins matters more than win/loss ratio (and ofc delete the thumbs system). A loss means only a laughable -40 points!

You may ask why do I have a :light mark deck as well for such a long time. No point in making new deck since months,
when this crap started. At that time I made a Light Nymph deck to see how far can it go.
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: moehrpi on May 17, 2020, 08:43:44 am
No point in making new deck since months

There are plenty of reasons.
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: Wyand on May 17, 2020, 10:44:41 am
No point in making new deck since months

There are plenty of reasons.

Plenty of reasons for not making plat decks anymore? I can understand that many veterans here are bored,
they tried every sort of plat decks I guess. But I think SoDstall decks killing plat is the most important one.
When you have no space left to compete, why bother?

Players who want to rule indefinitely by abusing the scoring method of the arenas and those blasted filler decks in bronze
ruined everything.
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: moehrpi on May 17, 2020, 12:23:07 pm
*plenty of reasons to submit new decks.
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: Wyand on May 17, 2020, 12:35:17 pm
don't be cryptic, mention a few
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: moehrpi on May 18, 2020, 09:01:43 am
I don't see the need for me to try and phrase those reasons. There are enough players out there posting new decks. Just find yours and get on or don't and get on. Bitching about it, coming up with what seems like a poor excuse and being part of it at the same time is hypocritical. Shaming others for choosing a strategy that is perfectly within the borders of rules also doesn't sit straight with me.
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: Wyand on May 18, 2020, 09:50:16 am
I don't see the need for me to try and phrase those reasons.

This sounds pretty condescending.

Quote
There are enough players out there posting new decks. Just find yours and get on or don't and get on. Bitching about it, coming up with what seems like a poor excuse and being part of it at the same time is hypocritical. Shaming others for choosing a strategy that is perfectly within the borders of rules also doesn't sit straight with me.

Uh, where to start. This explanation pretty much shows what's wrong with the world. Not now, but anytime in history and in any communities.
There is something which is clearly broken and instead of changing people adapt to the broken situation. You may say that my complaints
possibly won't change anything - my view is like this: if I shut my mouth nothing will change if I speak my mind there is a slight chance
that something might happen. Too bad people always fear getting rebuked with the usual policeman attitude "nothing here to see, move along".

Other thing is what I call "western attitude". Or let's call it gamesmanship. "It doesn't matter if it isn't fair or exploits some totally broken element,
if it works it already confirms its usage." Sort of a Petitio principii, but who cares?

If players are "fine" (at least telling themselves) fighting for the 50th place, ok, they should have "fun", at the same time I think abusing
a certain strategy AND the broken scoring of the arena to be the Numero Uno forever is crappy. And that's the reason I don't make a new deck.
For me it isn't funny to vie for #50. In the past I always made new decks and hoped that people will stop this nonsense, and frankly, I got bored
being the guy doing something for a change just to be ridiculed by those fellow players like saying "haha, you thought we will follow you? well no,
have fun fighting for #50". And no I don't need game theory explanation why ppl doing this. Just because you have the opportunity to steal smth
without getting caught doesn't equal to you have to steal it.
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: moehrpi on May 18, 2020, 01:29:09 pm
I don't see the need for me to try and phrase those reasons.

This sounds pretty condescending.

Quote
There are enough players out there posting new decks. Just find yours and get on or don't and get on. Bitching about it, coming up with what seems like a poor excuse and being part of it at the same time is hypocritical. Shaming others for choosing a strategy that is perfectly within the borders of rules also doesn't sit straight with me.

Uh, where to start. This explanation pretty much shows what's wrong with the world. Not now, but anytime in history and in any communities.
There is something which is clearly broken and instead of changing people adapt to the broken situation. You may say that my complaints
possibly won't change anything - my view is like this: if I shut my mouth nothing will change if I speak my mind there is a slight chance
that something might happen. Too bad people always fear getting rebuked with the usual policeman attitude "nothing here to see, move along".

Other thing is what I call "western attitude". Or let's call it gamesmanship. "It doesn't matter if it isn't fair or exploits some totally broken element,
if it works it already confirms its usage." Sort of a Petitio principii, but who cares?

If players are "fine" (at least telling themselves) fighting for the 50th place, ok, they should have "fun", at the same time I think abusing
a certain strategy AND the broken scoring of the arena to be the Numero Uno forever is crappy. And that's the reason I don't make a new deck.
For me it isn't funny to vie for #50. In the past I always made new decks and hoped that people will stop this nonsense, and frankly, I got bored
being the guy doing something for a change just to be ridiculed by those fellow players like saying "haha, you thought we will follow you? well no,
have fun fighting for #50". And no I don't need game theory explanation why ppl doing this. Just because you have the opportunity to steal smth
without getting caught doesn't equal to you have to steal it.

It probably is condescending but it is not for me to go and speculate about all the reasons people might or might not have to keep on doing what they are doing.


As far as I am concerned I don't see complaining in the forums as a way to fix this. You can blame the world or attack people for their actions but you'll never get to decide why they do something. This I find condescending. Competing for the highest rank is not the only valuable reasons. Gatekeeping is not the answer. Neither for those that provide fresh input nor for those that seem to sit complacently on their 'better ranks'.

What confirms its usage is that its usage is allowed.

What bugs me is you talking on you high horse about compromising for the greater good and implicating everyone who does not follow suit has a flawed character.

I also don't understand why there needs to be a discussion about it. People submit new decks. Of course they have reasons?!
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: worldwideweb3 on May 18, 2020, 01:57:31 pm
how exactly does light decks/sodiv destroy arena? its not hard to beat them lol
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: serprex on May 18, 2020, 02:25:19 pm
Wyand,

I'll try skip going into the game theory of how the people who call for not exploiting systems effectively help setup those very systems by tricking people into thinking nobody will exploit them, as you've stated you aren't interested in game theory (presumably because we agree by that this discussion is too easy to refute unless we mute an entire branch of mathematics)

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/the-arena/banning-supernova-quantum-tower-and-sog-from-arena-(yet-another-new-poll)/msg1289319/#msg1289319

A year ago you covered this ground & realized basically nobody is going to sympathize with you. So when you start posting about sod decks I assume you just want to argue with someone

"There is a small chance something changes" nope. This might surprise you, but most players (even now) don't check out the forums. They might step into chat as a guest who's played for a few years & show us their deck that's totally jank because they play a few games every couple years or something & they really don't care about tuning their deck. Arena is broken so that for all we know some of those sod deck builders got hit by a bus as karma for posting sod decks & still they'd stay where they are. The only person who can fix arena is Zanz

You're complaining both that nobody posts decks, & that people are posting decks that stick around

Back in the old days people complained about people ignoring their oracle card & posting monoaether with dead cards. This isn't some ethical debate. People post decks, this isn't cheating, hate the game not the player, any ranking system will select the subset that optimize for it, so trying to generalize these decks as "everybody does this" isn't even accurate

Complaining that you can't achieve rank 1 because someone else posted a deck that can achieve rank 1.. If you disagree with how arena effectively ranks, why do you care about rank 1?

Honestly arena is boring because it's full of NaN & 1hp. If you want something fun play AI4. These sod decks perhaps reflect more on the arena playerbase only exploiting the 1hp decks than anything else. Because arena is rewarding players for farming 1hp decks rather than going after that 10x reward for beating rank 1

This is like someone walking into a lounge & complaining about how much of a dive the place is. If you don't like it, don't be a patron. My parents have a cat who'd sit & hiss at a guest living in their basement for a couple months rather than give him the space. & basically comparing that to this, the cat had a more reasonable reason to make a fuss

As an aside, there happens to be a healthy arena meta in openEtG (that is, until antiaverage broke the https cert yesterday..). Of course people still complain that the AI having RNG precognition makes pandemonium 3.0 decks broken & so you have Chapuz posting random pande3.0 decks no matter his oracle card, & indeed these decks are difficult to counter, but if you're going to play arena, the pve content where players are encouraged to try make the game impossible, then you're opting into that. Either you take the couple of pande3.0 decks on the chin or if half the arena is pande3.0 you start coming up with whatever has the best chance to counter it. & I know you don't think oetg achieves the spirit of etg or whatever, but here's a case where you're complaining about etg, & now I'm adding an example where you'll complain about oetg, so really it's to show we can't help you

Please avoid attacking others as capitalists. You do this pretty often, & it's antagonistic. You're not going to have a quality discussion when you start framing the conversation as "me vs you" & pushing towards validating Godwin's Law. My guess is what you want & what moe wants aren't all that opposed

Arena isn't a deckbuilding dog show. You could create a thread where people post their arena decks & then we have a monthly poll as to who's deck was best. Does that suit your values more? I don't know
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: Wyand on May 18, 2020, 04:38:26 pm
You are right about one thing. I shouldn't have complained about it AGAIN publicly. About half year passed, and it is still
the same, and it makes me always angry when I look at the arenas.

www, it isn't SoD decks alone. They are just a mean to abuse the ranking system in arena. The problems are:

- only minus 40 score for a loss;
- number of wins matter more than win/loss ratio;
- as you get a higher position/score you get more points for a win;
- unneeded thumbs up system (why including sympathy into a system which should value good decks?);
- arena generally played by newcomers and they will get often beaten by those SoD decks.

All these together will mean that you can have tons of losses (see Sapart at #3 - he was around #200 for years,
but the sudden change in economics propelled him to the top), while scraping in a few random wins with T1 SoD.
The only change happened in SoD decks that they became a bit more aggro, having Light Nymphs or Dragons, too.
Someone even used Hope, while toros applying his usual vader sadering. Add the stupid filler accounts which
effectively killed bronze arena (new decks quickly getting NEGATIVE scores and disappearing from the top500
forever).


What confirms its usage is that its usage is allowed.


Because of this quarantine situation there were a lot of archived materials in the television from earlier Olympics.
It was fun to relive those moments. Ofc there were bitter memories as well, but there was something that outright
shocked me. 2004 Olympics France vs Hungary women handball. We had quite a good lead for most of the match,
but eventually lost mostly because the French side started playing more aggressively. After the match there were
short interviews. The French team had a Hungary-born player, so they asked her as well about their victory.
She said (not word by word): we saw that the referees today allow the more aggressive play, so we played by
that and eventually won.

So, yes. The usage is allowed. That is what disgusts me. The referee is complacent and allows brutal play?
OK, let's do that and win! By this reasoning the banking system is totally cool, everybody should do the same.

Quote
What bugs me is you talking on you high horse about compromising for the greater good and implicating everyone who does not follow suit has a flawed character.

Nobody is perfect. In my view they are imperfect because cheesefest winning is more important them
than playing fairly. It is very common that people who play together something (be it a board game or sports)
agree about not cheesing.



It pains me how you don't understand me. Online games show the flaws of human behaviour they reflect societies perfectly.
It isn't the first time for me to experience this. For example I played Diablo II for years. That sort of elitism, where the
level 95+ players thought they are some sort of deities who has the rights to maintain the resources of the game. They figured
out unwritten rules just to maintain their status quo. Won't tell you examples, because dunno how much you know about the actual game.

And if you understand me (but react like this) that's even worse.

moe don't take my words personally, please. You started defending the exploiters, which obviously pissed me.
I have no problems with you, playing against you is always a good experience, you are a fair player.
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: Darigaaz on May 20, 2020, 07:15:02 am
debated whether or not post since apparently I am evil for trying to rank high.

First, seems like it would be easy to change the rankings to factor in winning percentage, but the dev decided not to do that.

What I don't understand is if someone cares about their ranking, why wouldn't they make a deck that they believe will place high?
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: Wyand on May 20, 2020, 07:58:55 am
debated whether or not post since apparently I am evil for trying to rank high.

First, seems like it would be easy to change the rankings to factor in winning percentage, but the dev decided not to do that.

What I don't understand is if someone cares about their ranking, why wouldn't they make a deck that they believe will place high?

Hey, I remember your name, I meet your deck frequently when playing plat! :)

Don't want to reiterate my whole post, just pointing out some stuff again. I have such a plat deck, it is at rank #4.
Due to the buggy state of the arena someone who makes a new deck has about 0 chance to break top10. Look at
the top10. There are only 2 decks which are younger than 100 days. Which sorta means that you have to wait around
3 months to get into the top10, and after that you won't really advance because the arena is totally bugged.
Read the list of problems again in my previous post. Since all of the top decks has the same method (sod cheesing)
it is impossible to advance. Or you just can trust rng that your deck will see more play and/or get more T1 SoDs than other
decks with the same strategy. I wouldn't call this skillful.

Achieving better ranks isn't a crime. Cheesing and ruining the balance of the arenas is - in my eyes. The dev isn't around
since ~2013, doubt he had a chance to make any changes. Such things never occured in arena, it seemed there is
nothing to fix.

(And there is something else which really bugs me about the arenas, but I don't have enough data to post about that.
It is a suspicion, which is hard to prove, but a strong suspicion.)
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: Darigaaz on May 21, 2020, 04:37:43 am
Arena is broken so that for all we know some of those sod deck builders got hit by a bus as karma for posting sod decks & still they'd stay where they are. The only person who can fix arena is Zanz

Seems like if I don't log into the game for a week or so due to vacation or other reason that it disappears from the Arena. Is this not other people's experience? Maybe it doesn't disappear until I log back in?
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: serprex on May 21, 2020, 04:46:56 am
Arena is broken so that for all we know some of those sod deck builders got hit by a bus as karma for posting sod decks & still they'd stay where they are. The only person who can fix arena is Zanz

Seems like if I don't log into the game for a week or so due to vacation or other reason that it disappears from the Arena. Is this not other people's experience? Maybe it doesn't disappear until I log back in?

Yeah I had that happen to me too, which is the real reason I stopped making decks. Don't know details
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: Wyand on May 21, 2020, 10:39:30 am
I don't recall correctly but 1 or 2 weeks is the threshold. If you have that amount of time between your two logins
your deck gets deleted. So, if you don't login for an extended period of time your deck stays and it gets only deleted
when you login again... Can't understand the logic behind that, normally it would be logical to do it the other way.
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: MasterWalks on May 21, 2020, 06:49:41 pm
Quote
This explanation pretty much shows what's wrong with the world.

You said this to me. Youve said this to many other people im sure. If you need to keep telling other people this, maybe its not them but you.
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: Wyand on May 21, 2020, 08:26:39 pm
Quote
This explanation pretty much shows what's wrong with the world.

You said this to me. Youve said this to many other people im sure. If you need to keep telling other people this, maybe its not them but you.

Exactly. I'm the one who wants clear rules, positive moral and such idealist things. People who don't want this like the world as it is.
They don't mind if the greater powers are abusing others or even them. They agree with these morally grey doings. Why? Because it
allows them to do same in a smaller scale. This is what elevated us, human beings to such high ranks in evolution and this same
thing will tear us down someday.

And no point in kicking me around publicly. If you want to share your insights with me you can do that privately. I do not wish to follow
this off-topic part, however I wished to defend my point.
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: Darigaaz on July 07, 2020, 05:56:34 am
Just lost to a decent mono Air deck that was 1 and 15 after 1 day. Took a look at the leaderboard, and sure enough, everyone has a losing record. Looks like the person hacking the loss column is back  >:( >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: Wyand on July 07, 2020, 07:07:05 am
Yeah, noticed, too, that all decks getting around 0-1W/8-10L stats daily. Maybe someone is botting with a SoPa deck...

EDIT: oof it's getting worse, 0-1W/20-30L per day...
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: Wyand on January 09, 2021, 11:58:08 am
The only non-light mark deck (:gravity) disappeared from the top17. Does it mean that an old member (actzn) revisited the game after more than 3 years...? That would be cool.
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: Wyand on January 18, 2021, 10:13:29 am
2 more disappearance: NightOfEternity (326 days) and zs79 (216). Now Oa's deck is the only non-light mark deck (:aether) in the top17.
(Why 17? Just fits in one screen with the title on. :D )
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: Wyand on January 19, 2021, 02:09:20 pm
Wow, seems like toros gave up his Bronze/Silver/Gold decks. Makes sense, no one really plays arena nowadays.

In other news: zsolt1k removed from plat's top17.
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: Wyand on January 22, 2021, 01:54:46 am
Well, plat arena simply got purged. Wth.

Only 36 decks remained... does this mean that most of the decks were ran by only a few players? Strange that all this happened in a few hours.
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: kaempfer13 on January 22, 2021, 12:30:37 pm
looks like a surprising number of people wanted to save their nymphs to oetg/enjoy the game one last time
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: moehrpi on January 22, 2021, 05:36:27 pm
looks like a surprising number of people wanted to save their nymphs to oetg/enjoy the game one last time

How to save your nymphs to oEtG? simply import your decka when you create an account and you get shiny nymphs?
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: Wyand on January 22, 2021, 06:41:30 pm
kaempfer> I'm not surprised by the fact that people wanted to save their Nymph, what's strange that it seemed it happened all of a sudden, through one afternoon.

moehrpi> Yep, you will see a Legacy button in oetg, clicking that will reveal an 'Import' button.
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: kaempfer13 on January 23, 2021, 10:04:38 am
well the option wasnt there for much longer
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: Wyand on January 23, 2021, 12:05:07 pm
Well, the option was there since... ~November, and it is still there. Dozens of decks disappearing in a single afternoon is strange
(while Flash was already off for 10 days). Too bad arena players hardly read the forums.
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: Wyand on January 24, 2021, 11:31:00 pm
Wanted to get some archived plat arena last version, and found this on the wayback machine...
Seems there were some bigger maniacs than toros, this guy totally occupied bronze (except toros leading, lol).

/click for bigger version/ and alexandra gets immortalized again :D

(https://i.ibb.co/znTmR2p/mylove.png)
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: Wyand on May 31, 2021, 01:01:11 am
To my knowledge inactive arena decks work like this:

If you made an arena deck and you won't login after that for an indefinite amount of time, your deck STAYS.
If you login regularly (minimally once every two weeks), your deck alsp STAYS.
If you made an arena deck and you login only after two weeks, your deck GETS DELETED when you just logged in again.

Last year I made some other logins to keep plat arena alive. It is a pain to keep them updated so after I while I just got bored
with. Made new arena decks for them 2 weeks ago. And now they are gone... WHY? I haven't logged in! They should have stayed
- just like before. :(
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: Wyand on July 11, 2021, 01:53:19 am
This is stupid. I lost my plat nr 1 deck. It isn't the fact that bugs me, because sooner or later
I would have forgotten to login in time, it was just a matter of time. But again: only 10 days
passed since my last login... this Spring I even had a 13 days hiatus, and my arena deck
still stayed. This is just illogical.
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: iancudorinmarian on July 11, 2021, 07:55:03 am
This is stupid. I lost my plat nr 1 deck. It isn't the fact that bugs me, because sooner or later
I would have forgotten to login in time, it was just a matter of time. But again: only 10 days
passed since my last login... this Spring I even had a 13 days hiatus, and my arena deck
still stayed. This is just illogical.
Imagine caring abour nr. 1 in a literally dead game OMEGALUL
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: Wyand on July 11, 2021, 10:38:44 am
Lowest odds in the Universe: "iancu will comment something like this". :D

Btw read my post again. :) It is not the losing of nr1 what bothers me. There is
no competition at all. I'm baffled at the inconsistency of the game
(why and how are plat decks are deleted - in fact my previous post (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=59602.msg1304755#msg1304755)
makes it more interesting.)
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: serprex on July 11, 2021, 02:31:56 pm
Quite possible there's some mechanism where plays is a variable, which should now be nearly zero

Also could be something like a weekly cleanup cronjob, so exact dates of resets would help figure out potential cadence
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: MasterWalks on July 11, 2021, 10:05:32 pm
The devs ought to really fix that. Game is unplayable
Title: Re: Plat Arena behaving oddly
Post by: Wyand on July 12, 2021, 01:58:17 am
Quite possible there's some mechanism where plays is a variable, which should now be nearly zero

Also could be something like a weekly cleanup cronjob, so exact dates of resets would help figure out potential cadence

I thought it might have something to do with the fact that I set back the date to make Flash active, and maybe
the site reads the date from my comp, but I guess that's not the case, since I usually set back the time to normal AFTER login.

Some people think that the overusage of irony, sarcasm and cynicism shows a high intellect and it is really funny, too.
blarg: legit,moehrpi