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Elements the Game => Events and Competitions => Competitions => Topic started by: Dragoon1140 on February 01, 2011, 04:42:41 am

Title: Voting: Adaptation
Post by: Dragoon1140 on February 01, 2011, 04:42:41 am
Vote for the deck that you think should be the next FG deck added to Elements. Vote based on this criteria:

1. How much fun the deck would be to play against (50%)
2. How well the deck fits the "Adaptation" theme (50%)


The community now has a chance to decide what happens in the game. We ask everyone to take this vote seriously and really think what kind of FG opponent would make Elements a better and more fun game. Voting for joke decks or really bad/boring decks would only show that we are not up to the task, and we won't be asked for any FG ideas ever again.

While every deck has an opportunity to be added into Elements, there are no guarantees for the winning submission of the competition to be added into the game.  It will be Zanzarino's decision as to which one will be added.

NOTICE: Several participants had failed to follow the rules before the competition-submission period ended. Below are the reasons and names listed why their FG deck has not been included in the poll:
Scrambled Fate (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,20375.0.html)
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The point of this god is to achieve double adaptation: he adapts to whatever the RNG decides to give him and fractals it, and then you have to adapt to the enemy having 5+ copies of the "featured creature of the day". Furthermore, it introduces a lot of variation into FGs, because you might know the decklist, but not what you are going to face.
I know there are already a lot of Fractalling gods, but this is an idea that struck me while testing how AI would play TUs and Mindgates, and I have to say that AI can play this very well.
Eternal Crusader (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,20187.0.html)
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This is the normal version. FG version is twice as large of this deck. Some of the cards are an odd number though, so just multiply these cards by 2 then subtract 1: Quantum Tower, Crusader, Light Pendulum, Turtle Shield, Eternity, Pharaoh, Pulverizer, Vampire Dagger. The exact number of each card is given in the spoiler below.

This deck has a total of 80 cards.
-7 Quantum Tower
-11 Light Pendulum
-16 Time Tower
-6 Aether Pendulum
-7 Crusaders
-4 Anubis
-3 Pharaoh
-3 Turtle Shield
-10 Electrum Hourglass
-4 Quintessence
-3 Eternity
-1 Pulverizer
-1 Vampire Dagger
-4 Animate Weapon

ARMA (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,20223.new.html#new)
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Adapto de bellum:
Telum Vinco, the weapon master. Years of rigorous training with various weapons has honed his skill to almost a second nature. Being so adept at his art, it seems sometimes that the weapons are moving of their own accord. With the speed of lightning and the power of a tornado, he strikes the battlefield and leaves nothing but desolation in his wake.
Accompanying him in battle are also his loyal disciples, the paladins. They enter the battlefield, weapons concealed, until when the time is right. Then they strike with an array of weapons to quickly vanquish their opponents.

Raziel (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,20185.0.html)
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Raziel, lord of the Archangels, god of Wrath and War. Pretty self-explanatory.
The intresting thing here is, why did I choose a Raging Archangels deck for Adaptation? Rage Potion is the answer. By itself, it's one of the most adaptable cards in the whole game. With Archangels, it's rush potential, but it's also a good CC card, and can be an anti-antimatter tactic. Same is to say for Bolt: great CC to be sure, but also a great finisher if you have 100+ fire quanta. Truth is, this god is very flexible. He can rush with his Archangels + Rage Elixirs, but he can stall with lots of CC + Miracles.
He can kill you with creatures. Creatures don't work? He can kill you with Bolts. Jade Shield is up? He can still deck you out.

Lancelot (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,20399)
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Dear Formidable Enemy,
Adaptation doesn't mean trying something completely new. Sometimes, you have to go back to the basics. Especially when your opponent ignores something basic.
Like creature control.
Do you think you can hide behind a Phase Shield? Do you think you can hide behind a Hope? If you think a couple Shards of Gratitude and a Permafrost Shield can save you...You're wrong.
"A simple rush deck," you scoff. Well, if I'm so simple, then why don't you try to beat me? All you have to do it kill the Physalias. But please don't try to lobotomize them. You see, I don't like them lobotomized, and sometimes I'm just hungry for smoked Physalias on a plate. If you lobotomize my Physalias, you will only increase my fiery rage. If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.
From your honorable knight,
Sir I. Lancelot

Anchiale
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Explanation:
This deck is build to adapt on any possible strategy, it has creature control, permanent control, lots and lots of damage building, and permafrost to slow you down.

Counters:
Yogopopo (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,20193.0.html)
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Scarabs are the most adaptable creatures there are. They do damage, creature control and healing with feral bond, and they get stronger the more there are. Mindgate gives the deck a little extra adaptability making sure this deck can use any card thats ever made.

Darwin (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,20195.new.html)
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Darwin; a scientist who devoted his life to finding out how life had become what life is. His theory of evolution gave answers to why species existed where they did, and how they had adapted to become the perfect beings they are. He found out that the evolution took not only life, but long periods of time. Darwin's research spawned new natural laws, new science and new beliefs. His memory and heritage has become immortal; a False God. Darwin found out what life is, the perfect example of adaption.
Purely mechanically, the deck is a mixture of a life rush and light stall-elements from time. The reason the deck has to have so insanely many cards is that there will be a maximum of 10 hourglasses out at the same time; so the cards will be drawn out with insane speeds. The creatures are, concept-wise, chosen to represent evolution: Frogs > Cockatrice > Dragon. These are the rush cards, together with hourglass. The stall cards are Turtle Shield, Eternity, Feral Bond and Improved Heal. One must notice that this deck is only usable by a False God.

Mimic (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,20199.new.html#new)
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Much like a child learns by copying its parents, Mimic learns from its opponent. It adapts to the situation using Mindgates. As a matter of fact, by the end of the game, Mimic is probably doing a better job that the enemy is with 3-6 Mindgates running full steam.
But Mimic does just that, imitate. It is not in fact the opponent. Much like butterflies have evolved to have wings that resemble snake eyes, Mimic is rather clever. Mutations allow Mimic to adapt and evolve beyond what its enemy can teach it. And finally Fate Eggs allow Mimic to use time to its advantage.
When you fight Mimic, you fight the more evolved version of yourself.

Full Moon (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,20384.0.html)
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Alright so it should be obvious that this about the were wolves.  Were wolves adapt to normal life rather well, except for when there is a ... dun dun dun- full moon.  OK now for how the deck works, it's based on the were wolves getting boosted with chaos powers to do good damage.  The cloaks are used to prevent them from being antimattered or otherwise CC'd, and preventing the dusk or anything it steals from being destroyed or stolen back.  The antimatters themselves will provide the source of healing, or reversing any antimatters that land on the werewolves themselves and the dusk will provide the defense- unless steal can find something better.  Steal will mainly function as PC in the deck. 

Eden (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,20286.0.html)
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This FG deck is designed for speed and unpredictability.  RoL provide targets for Improved Mutation, and Twin Universe amplifies the mutant beasts.  In the event of a fail-draw (no RoLs) the back-up strategy is TU on opponent's creatures.  Supernovas to allow for AI to use acquired mutant abilities.  Only 1 Aether Nymph so quinting doesn't happen before mutation/twinning.  In addition to mutant abilities, the deck provides light CC with Pandemonium and Electrocutor and employs Phase Shield for defense while mutants ramp up damage.  Butterfly Effect can be used on RoL or weaker mutants for some built-in PC.
In the moment of creation, a mighty spark flashed in the vast aether of the void.  Eons of silence were erased and replaced with a cacophony of chaos as light filled the darkness.  The echoes of the clamor shook the very fabric of the universe, and from this shaking sprang up many forms of life both bold and new.  The creatures at first struggled to adapt but soon thrived in the boundless garden they found themselves, never stopping to wonder how they had come to be or for what purpose...

Phlegyas (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,20225.0.html)
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"Hello, hello dear soul! May I ask of you how you made your way to the River Styx tonight?... No? A quiet one I see... Well, no matter, for you are here and I am too to ferry you down the flames. Before we depart, though, would it not be wise if you knew the torments this river I control can provide? A nod? All right. As you see above us, the lost spirits, rematerialized a orbs of electricity, float haphazardly through the stalactites. They're trying to escape, you see. How enjoyable is their attempts! No worries though, they're to be captured soon. Those jars over there. Yes, the ivory ones; those are the soul catchers. Those lead directly to Lord Hades himself. Whether or not you want to go there is up to you, but you must go there nevertheless! His pets, you see, skeletal, winged monstrosities feed upon them. It's supposed that you feel no pain, but screams in the late night deem otherwise. They escape once in a while, but I'm here to herd them back. How? Poison my dear. Poison rots not only the flesh but bone as well. Ha ha! Yes, I have them under control. Now, it is time for you to meet your end; let us depart for Tarturus. But first, where is your payment? I do not work for free you know!... What?! I see, it is not yet your time to enter... though, I could change that for you. Prepare yourself mortal! Keep this in mind: Death adapts to everything as well as Death itself, for everything comes to Death and so Death is part of everything. I am Death. You will come to me."

Monstrum (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,20227.0.html)
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Monstrum is a latin word meaning an aberrant occurrence, usually biological.
This god starts with a quick swarm of critters, poisoning and beating down its opponent. They then mutate into stronger creatures. Twin universe is used to further breed the best "traits", copying the strongest mutants. It also uses mindgate to summon the opponent's deck against them, easily adapting to specialize in the in the destruction of any given enemy.

Fractal (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,20226.0.html)
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Who knows what it'll be like this game, next game, the game after? Who knows what kind of strange things we will see?
All we know is that whatever comes up, it'll come up again, and again, and again, and again. Just like the repetitions in a fractal...
We know how this god would go. Blights get either CPed or mutated, or fractaled later on. Then the mutations get twinned many times over. The result is a lot of powerful creatures with a large variety of abilities, ready to take on any situation at hand. What better way to show adaptation?

Pi˝ata (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,20248.new.html#new)
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You hit the Pi˝ata, surprises fall out. But you can be hit, and that matters. But when you get the sweets, the matter goes away, and antimatters. Just like a Pi˝ata, anything can happen with Pandemoniums. You want more sweets? Twin Universe them. But, only problem is that Pi˝ata double the sweets. The Pi˝ata may look like a dragon. Well, this Pi˝ata is a Purple one, very rare. The surprises inside the Pi˝ata is so big that every battle is different.
Big surprises like Abominations come out, you never know what happends inside a Pi˝ata. You will be shocked. I promise.

Aqrabteini (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,20272.0.html)
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Adaptation is defined as "the ability of life ( :life ) to change ( :entropy ) over time ( :time ).   Aqrabteini represents some of :life 's newest adaptations to the Elemental energies -- the development of Spine Carapace and Scorpion -- as well as the ripple-effects of those changes, the offshoot Dune Scorpion and the Butterfly Effect that the development of these small but dangerous creatures have had on the way that Elementals fight.
There are a few strategies working together here.  Obvious is poison in the form of Scorpions and Dune Scorpions+Chaos Power.  Less obvious is Deja Vu + Scorpion Spam + Feral Bond + Purple Nymph + Spine Carapace (healing gives time for the Infection to kill your offense), Deja Vu and unPowered Scorpions + Fallen Druid, a variety of small creatures + Butterfly Effect, a variety of small creatures + Adrenaline, and of course  MASSIVE DRAW SPAM to make everything happen at an ever-accelerating pace.
At the same time, Aqrabteini has some obvious weaknesses -- there's nothing here to protect her form any form of control, a decently-sized shield will put a BIG dent in her offense (if it survives Butterfly Effect), and all of that draw spam should actually make her pretty easy to deck out, even at 100 cards base.  She won't be able to use the abilities of any Mutants she creates, so a good chunk of them will be useless.  And if she never draws her Feral Bonds (pretty likely, all told), she won't be all that hard to whittle down. 

Viri (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,20266.new.html#new)
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The daughter of Scorpio, Viri, has decided to prove herself as a worthy Empress of Death by fighting all who opposes her. With her trusty scorpions that adapts to any enviroments, she will use ANYTHING and everything to spit poison on her enemies' wounds.

The deck itself is quite self-explanatory.

Aqueous (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,20273.msg275042#msg275042)
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Aqueous. With the ability to get around various obstacles, this deck has a fitting name. Tears lead to nymphs, and nymphs make more nymphs and so on. The various nymphs that are created specialize in all kinds of defences; Speed, attack buffs, creature control, and healing. Like a small river, it will gradually build and will be very hard to stop if it grows too big. However, this deck can be taken out with a really fast rush, crowd creature control, or cards such as quicksand. This deck is more adaptive to the types of creatures opponents can play, but not so much the permanents.

Mutualism (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,20292.0.html)
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Mutualism is the way two different organisms co-operate to increase their chances of survival. They have adapted to eachothers presence and work together in perfect harmony. In this case we're talking about a mutualism between air and light, the co-operation is obvious and it benefits both elements perfectly. Mutualism is a way for nature to adapt to a new/changing environment. The essence of light and air have found eachother and team up against everything that stands against them.
This FG is based on raw power, combined with a very nasty nuke. You will need to build up your defenses since this FG will strike you hard if you don't. The absence of PC is what should make him balanced. Also I was hoping to make web more usefull, it's a very underused skill but it's actually very usefull (not essential) versus Mutualism.
A great way to counter Mutualism would be Antimatter (possibly combined with Liquid shadow). Any deck that set's his defenses up very slowly will have problems. Perhaps this FG would bring back the more CC based decks. (as opposed to damage/stall based rainbow decks)

Xyosis (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,20328.new.html#new)
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Xyosis is a name derived from the word symbiosis, meaning a close association of animals or plants of different species that is often, but not always, of mutual benefit. Most of these relationships develop over time and are considered biproducts of the theory of Adaptation.
The different species would be the Otyughs and the Minor Phoenixes; also in the equation are Deathstalkers. These three creatures live symbiotically in this deck in such a way that it creates a near perfect synergy when Soul Catcher is involved. The Otyughs nom on the Minor Phoenix which can revive the next turn and at the same time, fuel Soul Catchers and get out some unstoppable deathstalkers for poison damage.

Dashing Swordsman (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,20336.0.html)
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You know, people are always impressed if you can wield a sword.  Fancy tricks an illusions and parries and stabs and leaps and lunges.  The ladies swoon.  Now, there's a rare... rare man, a man who can use two swords.  Now, his tricks aren't necessarily as flashy, but their twice as deadly.  But me?  I wield /all/ the weapons.  Sometimes I wield two of the same one, sometimes I don't grab one at all.  It really depends what cashes my fancy.
Oh, and ladies?  I'll go easy on you.
The point of this god isn't for the god to adapt to you, quite the other way around, actually.  He'll get a different set up every game, and it's up to you to deal with it.  Good luck!

Mj÷llnir (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,20363.0.html)
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Mj÷llnir (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mj%C3%B6lnir), is Thor's hammer, created by dwarves. This hammer was always as big as Thor wanted it to be and could strike as hard as Thor intended to and whenever it is thrown, it never missis its target and will always return.
It is also said that Mj÷llnir is a hammer made of Lightning.
Mj÷llnir will use its Titans to crush the opponent and whenever he has Quanta over, he'll throw one in your face. Lightning will strike any opposing creature or Mj÷llnirs opponent if he feels like it.
His strengh is that he renders any shield useless and will keep clobbering you down no matter what you do.
His major weakness is, that he is controlled by the AI. So he won't try to kill you by throwing multiple Titans at the same time but throws them as he get's the chance to.
Continous healing (SoG, Bonds + Tough Creatures || Cells) will pretty much cause Mj÷llnir to waste all his efforts.

Vortex (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,20369.0.html)
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Vortex uses a water-based rainbow. Physalia, Steam Machine, and Forest Spectre are the main sources of damage, all kinds that build up over time; you're getting sucked in by Vortex, and you're about to circle the drain. To aid in that goal, it carries Unstoppable and Butterfly Effect to deal with your defenses that would halt its flood of damage. Poseidon adds to the damage while severing the flow of quanta and Ulitharid makes you wave good-bye to your abilities while it chips in, too. Shockwave and Rewind halt the tide of enemy creatures, Cloak and Mirror Shield defend Vortex and his creatures.
Vortex has adapted to deal with you.
Vortex displays the versatility of both Water and Rainbow decks and is capable of dealing with a variety of decks. Every type of quanta can be used.
In terms of weaknesses, Vortex has no means of healing, dealing with immaterial creatures, and will be slow to begin.

The Aquanaut (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,20372.0.html)
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By creating his own environment (Inundation), The Aquanaut is able to adapt in most situations. Living underwater enhance his constitution to the maximum (Granite skin and Miracle). Swarm of luminous water creatures (Luciferin) fighting alongside immortal soldiers also provides a decent chance to create an almost complete invulnerability (Hope). Easily establishing his own comfort zone, The Aquanaut does not need any other control (no direct CC or PC), which in fact could be his main weakness.
The idea is of this FG is not how The Aquanaut is able to adapt to his opponent, but how well can the opponent adapt to the new environment.

Zeus (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,20546.msg278714#msg278714)
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This 88-card deck embodies the very image of Zeus. As the lord of all Greek Gods, he lives in the sky and favors thunderbolt attacks, exemplifying the elements of :air and :aether.
His wicked attacks are coupled with the fact that he is immortal. This is the central theme of this deck: a powerful, crushing attack out of the blue coupled with an evasion of damage.
Damage is primarily obtained by the Ball Lightning-Fractal-Sky Blitz combo. When these 3 key cards are held and may be used, it's time for murder.
Ball Lightning normally does 5 damage; when Sky Blitzed, it does 10 damage. After Fractaling this free card, you obtain many Ball Lightnings, each doing 10 damage each.
As little as two of these ferocious "lightning blitz" attacks can finish off the opponent. Other sources of damage include the Owl's Eyes or the Spiders.
Adaptation comes in when Zeus feels like going on the defensive.
He uses his Spiders to wrap up the opponent's Flying creatures (or his Owl's Eyes to kill them), then plays his Wings, making him impervious to damage.
In this way, Zeus can adapt well, striking when the opponent is weak and shielding himself when the situation calls for it.

Renaissance (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,20554.msg278866#msg278866)
Code: [Select]
716 716 716 716 716 71d 71d 71d 71e 71e 71e 72i 72i 72i 72i 72i 7jv 7jv 7jv 7jv 7jv 7jv 7k3 7k3 7k4 7k4 7k5 7la 7la 7la 7la 7la 7q0 7q5 7q5 7q5 7q5 7q8 7q8 7q9 7q9 7q9 7q9 7q9 7qd 7qd 7qd 7ri
Someone mentioned something about wanting a Dune Scorp deck in chat. I was tired of all the lame Crusader/Mindgate decks, so I made another idea (still managing to sneak in a Crusader)
Also, we get some adaptation coming in. We aren't allowed to use new cards apparently, but that's ok. This god likes rewinding skeletons, because they look cooler in his hand. Till the next patch anyway. No new mechanics here. None at all. Also, you're probably going to be adapting too, with those neurotoxin counters on you.
Ok, so the deck doesn't really have a central strategy. Play Scorps, Bless them. Play skeletons/mummies. Rewind them. Luciferase adds some light quanta, and will give this a weak little hope shield. A false god was eventually going to have one, be lucky this one is weak, and the creatures you get won't be guaranteed to be luciferase-friendly. Eternities are the only control in this deck. However, I would advise not using discords against this deck. The creatures he gets will have some abilities, and you wouldn't want to feed those creepy crawlers that will come. It's not Osiris, but it'll do some damage. The sundials and hourglasses will help this FG speed through his deck, since he may need a little push in the right direction.
The name means Rebirth, or born again. Think about it. It's also a new way of doing things in terms of history, and adding some innovation, and doing things when new techniques and strategies are available to you.

Echo (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,20182.msg273777#msg273777)
Code: [Select]
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Anything you can do, Echo can do better. Echo can do anything better than you. By using his massive supply of Mindgates, Echo will copy your cards and use them against you. Like an echo in a cave, reflecting your voice back at you, Echo will reflect your deck back at you. Using nothing but buffing and plain flying weapons, Echo will never be short on quanta. The stronger your deck is, the harder Echo will be. And although an echo isn't as loud as your own voice, Echo's deck won't be as strong since you may have supreme strategy up your sleeve. But can you pull it off before Echo gets enough of your cards to dominate you?
Title: Re: Voting: Adaptation
Post by: funerallaughter on February 01, 2011, 06:11:09 am
I think people can get muddled in the voting fashion it is now; simultaneous rounds would help see each deck closely. That said, vote for Phlegyas! A snazzy little thang with a story too boot; don't deny your love of the evil ;D
Title: Re: Voting: Adaptation
Post by: TimerClock14 on February 01, 2011, 06:25:20 am
vote for Xyosis! It's a cool idea, no?  :S
Title: Re: Voting: Adaptation
Post by: majofa on February 01, 2011, 06:38:23 am
Don't forget, Arma is a flying weapon deck, not a Crusader deck ;)
Title: Re: Voting: Adaptation
Post by: Essence on February 01, 2011, 06:42:26 am
Mimic...it's not a bad idea, but we already have Chaos Lord and Destiny, do we need another Fate Egg/Mutation deck?  Even with the Mindgates to add "something different", it's mostly going to be like Chaos Lord Jr.  seeing as most FG decks carry repeatable permanent control. 


Aqrabteini (pronounced Ak-rab-TAY-ni, because someone asked), on the other hand, is unlike anything we have now, FG-wise.  Creature control that will beat Quinted critters, repeatable permanent control, poison up the wazzoo (but none that will bypass a simple Tower Shield unless she gets lucky with Chaos Power), and just enough healing to get by until the poison catches up with you; she's vulnerable to control of all kinds but has enough control of her own to get back at you when you least expect it. 

She's actually not at all that difficult if you pack the right tools -- one of which happens to have just been created as an Other card for any deck to use -- but her tactics are quite a bit different from the existing FGs.  Exactly what you want in a new member of the Level 6 team.
Title: Re: Voting: Adaptation
Post by: the dictator on February 01, 2011, 06:56:48 am
Well, all your votes belong to Anchiale, seems obvious to me.

A new got, based on growing attack, this way, SoG will have trouble to keep up, stalling with phase shields will prove deadly the turn you shield breaks, and hope will have to hope to get a lobo and save it for the explosions.

All in all, a quite new tactic in the realms of the False Gods, so, allow her to join them.
Title: Re: Voting: Adaptation
Post by: Pineapple on February 01, 2011, 09:19:02 am
Note that Physalias will not be cremated unless they are lobotomized. That's right, unless the opponent has an early lobotomizer, Lancelot has 22 dead cards in his deck. Also note that the AI will continue to improve, so this may not be a problem if this deck is to be

Look at rol/hope. Look at monoaether. Look at CCYB. None of them have any hard cc in their decks. Don't you think it's time that the FG's became more well-rounded?
So why did I make this deck a rush? Well, its purpose is to defeat the most popular FG-killers today. This is my allusion to the "adapt!" theme. If the FGs were to adapt, wouldn't they first exploit the blatant weakness in the majority of their challengers? It has achieved it's purpose...why do I have to make it impossible to beat? Another reason it's so simple is so that it would be rewarding to win against. With so many copies of so little cards, it's very easy to spin an upped card. I think that if the reward is great enough, some people will take the risk and it won't just be another auto-quit for rol/hope or monoaether or ccyb. In addition, it won't be one of those easy decks that you play just because you can wipe the floor with them. Getting Lancelot will be like getting a good harm in t50. Another reason why I made this deck so one-dimensional is so that you could easily build a counter to it. It's obviously not a hard deck to beat, however, look at the chances most of the fg-killers have against it:

Quote from: Jappert
CCYB: Will beat this FG most of the times since he can outheal the damage, will have trouble when he sets up slowly and this FG get's out poison fast.

RoL/Hope: Will have more problems then CCYB, not only is the CC not ideal (can be worked around) but the poison might be to much to handle after a while.

Liquid Antimatter: Stands no chance as far as I can tell.

Overall: Any FG grind can lose because of the poison coming out to fast, but the most common FG grind decks will also be able to beat it on regular basis (as they should). Purify will obviously destroy this FG and will be more commonly seen in the popular FG grind decks.
This deck walks the balance between "difficult" and "rewarding." Don't vote for easy decks. Don't vote for auto-quit decks. Vote for Lancelot!
Title: Re: Voting: Adaptation
Post by: Kakerlake on February 01, 2011, 11:42:04 am
Vote for Mj÷llnir!

--> Shameless advertising =)
Title: Re: Voting: Adaptation
Post by: Falcon4415 on February 01, 2011, 03:03:19 pm
Vote for variety! Vote for fun! Vote for... reward! No other deck can do all these things while being balanced and playable by the AI!

Vote for Scrambled Fate!
Title: Re: Voting: Adaptation
Post by: PlayerOa on February 01, 2011, 03:15:59 pm
Look at Pi˝ata.
Not so easy. Not so hard. Extremly fun to play. Aether deck without Fractal. Entropy deck without Druid/BE.
What is better than the surprises a Pi˝ata gives you after an epic fight? You may not get three cards, but a fairly chanse to win.
An last but not least, EVERY MATCH IS DIFFERENT (even without Eggs and Druids).
Vote for Pi˝ata!
Title: Re: Voting: Adaptation
Post by: Chemist on February 01, 2011, 05:18:10 pm
!*
What happened to Kamietsu's submission (Echo)?
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,20177.msg273768#msg273768
Title: Re: Voting: Adaptation
Post by: ddevans96 on February 01, 2011, 05:29:42 pm
'Zeus' is mispelled in the poll and in the thread, but spelled correctly inside the deck spoiler.
Title: Re: Voting: Adaptation
Post by: Essence on February 01, 2011, 08:03:18 pm
Note that Physalias will not be cremated unless they are lobotomized. That's right, unless the opponent has an early lobotomizer, Lancelot has 22 dead cards in his deck. Also note that the AI will continue to improve
The problem here isn't the lack of Cremating the Physalias -- though that does instantly cripple this deck.  The problem with Lancealot is that the AI will happily waste bolt after bolt on enemy creatures, leaving you with only the small and utterly unprotected Physalia to do all of the hard kill-work for you -- and they only have the Mark to power them, so the majority will be sitting around uselessly.  Lancealot is -- forgive my arrogant assumption -- garnering votes because people know it will be trivial to beat, and yet it has excellent rewards (3x6 cards = best spins of any FG thus far.)

Lancealot is basically a very clever variation on Farmer Joe that looks dangerous...but isn't. 

In many ways, Mimic is in the same boat.  3x6 cards -- with no extras, so it's actually even better odds than Lancealot -- and exactly nothing that it can do to your plans except slowly imitate them and possibly Mutate an unprotected creature.  It's basically a fun-to-play biting farm deck.

Title: Re: Voting: Adaptation
Post by: Newbiecake on February 01, 2011, 11:19:22 pm
Eternal Crusader -No matter what you do, he keeps coming! :D
Title: Re: Voting: Adaptation
Post by: Kamietsu on February 01, 2011, 11:20:47 pm
Eternal Crusader -No matter what you do, he keeps coming! :D
No matter what you do, what you just said sounds completely wrong.
Title: Re: Voting: Adaptation
Post by: icybraker on February 01, 2011, 11:29:25 pm
Yeah Dragoon, you spelled my False God wrong. I demand correct spelling and a vote for my troubles :P

Want to see a False God...
a) who is really a God?
b) kill you with just two turns of attack?
c) use a deck incorporating 3 never-before-seen cards in previous False God decks?
d) use Ball Lightnings as his primary source of damage?
e) feature the liberating power of Air, one of the few False God decks to do so?
If you answered yes to any of these questions, Zeus is the God you should vote for.


And if you answered "no" you should still vote for him. :)
Title: Re: Voting: Adaptation
Post by: Newbiecake on February 01, 2011, 11:42:48 pm
Eternal Crusader -No matter what you do, he keeps coming! :D
No matter what you do, what you just said sounds completely wrong.
Ahhh it's not my fault you have to think of it that way. >.< Fine, here it is again:

Eternal Crusader: Speed, Power, Divine Righteousness- He's got it all.
Title: Re: Voting: Adaptation
Post by: Pineapple on February 01, 2011, 11:43:58 pm
Note that Physalias will not be cremated unless they are lobotomized. That's right, unless the opponent has an early lobotomizer, Lancelot has 22 dead cards in his deck. Also note that the AI will continue to improve
The problem here isn't the lack of Cremating the Physalias -- though that does instantly cripple this deck.  The problem with Lancealot is that the AI will happily waste bolt after bolt on enemy creatures, leaving you with only the small and utterly unprotected Physalia to do all of the hard kill-work for you -- and they only have the Mark to power them, so the majority will be sitting around uselessly.  Lancealot is -- forgive my arrogant assumption -- garnering votes because people know it will be trivial to beat, and yet it has excellent rewards (3x6 cards = best spins of any FG thus far.)

Lancealot is basically a very clever variation on Farmer Joe that looks dangerous...but isn't. 

In many ways, Mimic is in the same boat.  3x6 cards -- with no extras, so it's actually even better odds than Lancealot -- and exactly nothing that it can do to your plans except slowly imitate them and possibly Mutate an unprotected creature.  It's basically a fun-to-play biting farm deck.
But which "enemy creatures" are the bolts wasted on? In the most popular FG grinders, there is no massive spam of high-attack creatures early in the game, and so bolts will not be used on creatures.
You seem to be underestimating Physalias. The majority will not be "sitting around uselessly," they will be doing 2 damage per turn. In addition, from my playtesting with chriskang's fg cradle, Lancelot usually has more than enough :death to power all the Physalias on the field (usually 4). And with just Physalias, he can kill in 4 turns. You will not be able to kill Lancelot without killing or lobo'ing his Physalias.
So Lancelot really does not need 12 Ice Lances to kill the enemy, it has enough to spare as mindless CC. Yet the thing is that this deck is supposed to be a soft counter to the popular FG-killers of the time, and there would be no mindless CC being used in the first place against popular FG-killers of the time.
Lancelot is dangerous.
Title: Re: Voting: Adaptation
Post by: icybraker on February 01, 2011, 11:47:38 pm
Eternal Crusader -No matter what you do, he keeps coming! :D
No matter what you do, what you just said sounds completely wrong.
Ahhh it's not my fault you have to think of it that way. >.< Fine, here it is again:

Eternal Crusader: Speed, Power, Divine Righteousness- He's got it all.

You know who else has "Speed", "Power", and "Divine Righteousness"?

Zeus does.

Eternal Crusader -No matter what you do, he keeps coming! :D
Thank you for the beautiful mental image.
Title: Re: Voting: Adaptation
Post by: Dragoon1140 on February 01, 2011, 11:51:10 pm
I (hopefully) corrected all of the spelling errors I've made.
Thanks for the heads-up.  :)
Title: Re: Voting: Adaptation
Post by: Newbiecake on February 01, 2011, 11:51:21 pm
Well yeah? Thinking for the average players' benefit, Electrum Hourglass, Eternities, Pulverizers, and Quintessences are always good cards that are almost used in any Rainbow decks; Eternal Crusader is a good not-too-easy but rewarding god for sure.
Title: Re: Voting: Adaptation
Post by: Kamietsu on February 01, 2011, 11:53:13 pm
I (hopefully) corrected all of the spelling errors I've made.
Thanks for the heads-up.  :)
Spelling errors fixed? Check!
Adding Echo to the poll? ...
Title: Re: Voting: Adaptation
Post by: Dragoon1140 on February 02, 2011, 12:05:21 am
Adding Echo to the poll? ...
Check!

And I am sorry, my unicorn friend, it was my fault that your submission was missed.  :)

Echo is added to the poll
Title: Re: Voting: Adaptation
Post by: Kamietsu on February 02, 2011, 01:03:46 am
Don't worry about it. I already know it won't win since I didn't have the time or hardly the means to revise it XP So it's not a huge problem at all haha
Title: Re: Voting: Adaptation
Post by: Boingo on February 02, 2011, 05:35:18 am
I (hopefully) corrected all of the spelling errors I've made.
Thanks for the heads-up.  :)
Thanks for all your hard work organizing these competitions.

Now to the plug:

A fun FG?  Eden.  Everytime you play it, there will be a different set of creatures, guaranteed.  And it is possible to defeat Eden, but it's going to take a little luck.
Title: Re: Voting: Adaptation
Post by: Boingo on February 02, 2011, 05:38:57 am
Want to see a False God...
... Zeus is the God you should vote for.


And if you answered "no" you should still vote for him. :)
Not to nitpick, but shouldn't Zeus have at least 1 Thunderbolt?  I mean, he's never portrayed with balls of lightning, always bolts.  It's like his signature move.  Anyway...


....Welcome back, Icybraker!  ;)
Title: Re: Voting: Adaptation
Post by: zse on February 02, 2011, 08:14:18 pm
Quote
FG deck has not been included in the poll:
zse - Didn't post a deck description
But I did have deck description. It wasn't exactly 100 words long, but 26 word "poem". Oh well, that deck was maybe too evil anyway.
Title: Re: Voting: Adaptation
Post by: icybraker on February 02, 2011, 10:13:31 pm
Want to see a False God...
... Zeus is the God you should vote for.


And if you answered "no" you should still vote for him. :)
Not to nitpick, but shouldn't Zeus have at least 1 Thunderbolt?  I mean, he's never portrayed with balls of lightning, always bolts.  It's like his signature move.  Anyway...


....Welcome back, Icybraker!  ;)
Good to be back, Boingo.

And yes, Zeus doesn't have any Thunderbolts in his deck. But those just slow the deck down. I mean, I didn't really want creature control in this deck because most False God decks have lots of resistance to it. Owl's Eye was my exception because it also did great damage and was a chance to use more :air quanta. Plus, if there is nothing to target, the Thunderbolts just clog up the God's hand and lessen the Fractal damage. False Gods rarely if ever target opponents directly with Thunderbolt.

And it's not like Ball Lightning is a literal "ball" of lightning. Both in real life and in the context of this game, Ball Lightning is sort of a concentrated field of electrical energy. So it still works. ;)
Title: Re: Voting: Adaptation
Post by: Kamietsu on February 02, 2011, 10:45:24 pm
Echo
Echo
Echo
Echo
Echo
Echo
Echo



Can your deck do that? Didn't think so.
Title: Re: Voting: Adaptation
Post by: TimerClock14 on February 03, 2011, 05:01:51 am
Ok, time to bring out the big guns:

(>")>
kirby says: vote for Xyosis!
Title: Re: Voting: Adaptation
Post by: Pineapple on February 03, 2011, 11:12:16 am
Ice Bolt/Lance now has a chance of freezing the weapon! Try loboing the Physalias now, Rol/Hope! This is just an example of how
even if the game updates, Lancelot will only get better.
Title: Re: Voting: Adaptation
Post by: Jappert on February 03, 2011, 11:18:05 am
I am quite disappointed in how my FG deck is doing in the polls. Especially after seeing all the positive feedback I got when I first posted my idea.

Do you guys really think all this promoting your own deck is the thing that makes the difference? I would have thought that the adaptation theme and possible implementation (would the deck actually be a good, balanced FG) of a deck would be the most important factors... And I still think I did great at those points.

Anyway, good luck everyone!  ;D
Title: Re: Voting: Adaptation
Post by: icybraker on February 03, 2011, 10:05:25 pm
Echo
Echo
Echo
Echo
Echo
Echo
Echo



Can your deck do that? Didn't think so.
Maybe not, but you know what? In Greek myth, Echo used to be a beautiful nymph. But then, she got her voice taken away from her such that she could only repeat what others said.
Then she pretty much DIES.

And you know why this happened?
Because of Hera. And ZEUS.
Title: Re: Voting: Adaptation
Post by: funerallaughter on February 03, 2011, 10:06:01 pm
^^rofl. :3

EDIT: nvm, he edited it XD
Title: Re: Voting: Adaptation
Post by: Pineapple on February 06, 2011, 03:27:49 pm
Lancelot will make a comeback, boys.
And then you will see.
Yes, oh yes, then...you will...most definitely see.
 :(  :(  :(  :(  :(  :(
(^ is supposed to be creepy stares, not sad faces)
Title: Re: Voting: Adaptation
Post by: The_Mormegil on February 06, 2011, 06:39:23 pm
...Eternal Crusader? O.o for Adaptation? Really? .-.
Title: Re: Voting: Adaptation
Post by: Newbiecake on February 06, 2011, 06:50:35 pm
Really. The difference between mine and most of these entries, is that my FG actually adapts to what the opponent does because depending on what weapon you play out, the Crusaders would do different things, PLUS adapting to different situations. The two elements of adaptation, Eternal Crusader has them both. Don't diss my deck just cuz I'm new.
Title: Re: Voting: Adaptation
Post by: The_Mormegil on February 06, 2011, 06:54:44 pm
Really. The difference between mine and most of these entries, is that my FG actually adapts to what the opponent does because depending on what weapon you play out, the Crusaders would do different things, PLUS adapting to different situations. The two elements of adaptation, Eternal Crusader has them both. Don't diss my deck just cuz I'm new.
Actually, I didn't even know who you were  :P
But the point is, I don't like your deck. The flavor of copying the opponent's weapon doesn't feel like Adaptation at all to me, and I prefer much more entries such as Mimic (or mine). ;) No offense meant to you, I would have said that for anyone.
Title: Re: Voting: Adaptation
Post by: PlayerOa on February 06, 2011, 06:56:07 pm
Pi˝ata only 3 votes? :'(
I think it's a pretty cool deck. But it is also many other good entries, so...
Title: Re: Voting: Adaptation
Post by: Newbiecake on February 06, 2011, 07:08:58 pm
Mimic...it's not a bad idea, but we already have Chaos Lord and Destiny, do we need another Fate Egg/Mutation deck?  Even with the Mindgates to add "something different", it's mostly going to be like Chaos Lord Jr.  seeing as most FG decks carry repeatable permanent control. 
Essence has a good point there IMO. Well, we all have different opinions right? That's why we have democracy. :)
Title: Re: Voting: Adaptation
Post by: PlayerOa on February 06, 2011, 07:10:11 pm
Mimic...it's not a bad idea, but we already have Chaos Lord and Destiny, do we need another Fate Egg/Mutation deck?  Even with the Mindgates to add "something different", it's mostly going to be like Chaos Lord Jr.  seeing as most FG decks carry repeatable permanent control. 
Essence has a good point there IMO. Well, we all have different opinions right? That's why we have democracy. :)
Yeah, to be honest, that deck is too much CL/Destiny look-a-like that it deserves a first place.
Title: Re: Voting: Adaptation
Post by: Falcon4415 on February 06, 2011, 08:01:55 pm
I do like Mimic, but AI will never learn to play such a deck, and thus my vote goes to other playable decks.
Oh, and AI will also screw up Eternal Crusader 90% of the time.
Title: Re: Voting: Adaptation
Post by: Newbiecake on February 06, 2011, 08:44:32 pm
Okay, what are you talking about? I've played AI5 numerous times with that Light/Time combo and they play their things perfectly fine. It is just a simple process of Anubis and Quints, Crusaders and Endows, Hourglass frenzy, Pharaoh Scarab spam, Eternity/Pulverizer/Dagger usage. I don't see how it can screw up in any way. In the future, please do not make an assumption to something that you have not tested thoroughly (that goes for saying a card being OP too, ahem anti-Mitosis people :P).

Even if any of the entries does screw up, if Zanz does take an interest in the winning deck, he'll fix the AI until it is playable. That's for sure. Like some others have said, pick the good deck, then worry about the AI later.
Title: Re: Voting: Adaptation
Post by: The_Mormegil on February 06, 2011, 09:02:55 pm
Even if any of the entries does screw up, if Zanz does take an interest in the winning deck, he'll fix the AI until it is playable. That's for sure. Like some others have said, pick the good deck, then worry about the AI later.
Which is exactly my point. ;)
Title: Re: Voting: Adaptation
Post by: majofa on February 06, 2011, 09:32:46 pm
UPDATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You can now play against FGs on trainer.

As in, import a code and have them be AI6.

We can now test these decks and see if they actually work!!!
Have fun :)
Title: Re: Voting: Adaptation
Post by: Newbiecake on February 06, 2011, 09:35:35 pm
Great! Code inserted, but what format do I have to use to insert the mark? It says it doesn't recognize the mark.

Ugh, just found out that it won't allow an odd number of cards on the FG trainer, so I'm guessing the same thing in the real game, so I made some adjustments to the deck, taking out the lone Pulverzier and Vamp Dagger. You probably won't win those anyways. +2 Golden Nymths (yay Relics!). Removed some towers; should allow for better wins now. The editted version is in the FG proposals section of the forums.
Title: Re: Voting: Adaptation
Post by: majofa on February 06, 2011, 09:36:54 pm
btw, my Arma deck is insane...  :o
Title: Re: Voting: Adaptation
Post by: Jappert on February 06, 2011, 09:41:38 pm
Great! Code inserted, but what format do I have to use to insert the mark? It says it doesn't recognize the mark.
I have the same issue and don't understand either.

If it works, it's awesome though!
Title: Re: Voting: Adaptation
Post by: Jappert on February 06, 2011, 09:54:17 pm
Thanks Majo!
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,20867.0/topicseen.html

Anyway, I tried Mutualism and it works perfectly. He's very strong and has a very very fast rush, like a pumped up Ferox. But it's still beatable once I got my defenses down, I needed a Miracle to survive.

I'm very proud :p Even won an upgraded sky blitz!
Title: Re: Voting: Adaptation
Post by: Newbiecake on February 06, 2011, 10:02:32 pm
Wow...just wow. If only they released this sooner. Eternal Crusader is such a charger deck. XD

Ugh, just found out that it won't allow an odd number of cards on the FG trainer, so I'm guessing the same thing in the real game, so I made some adjustments to the deck, taking out the lone Pulverzier and Vamp Dagger. You probably won't win those anyways. +2 Golden Nymths (yay Relics!). Removed some towers; should allow for better wins now. The editted version is in the FG proposals section of the forums.
Title: Re: Voting: Adaptation
Post by: funerallaughter on February 06, 2011, 10:11:37 pm
"I, Phlegyas, can be now seen as a force to be reckoned with... Ray of Lights? No Hope for ye anytime soon. Let my plagues and poisons wither you down and your cries of death will fuel me even faster. It is only then will my dragons fly and feast on your mortal remains..."
Title: Re: Voting: Adaptation
Post by: Falcon4415 on February 06, 2011, 10:37:06 pm
Scrambled Fate pulled off an awesome combo: Air nymph + Doll-tal + Fire nymph. Then Egg-tal, and then, Pestal. All in one game!!! (I obviously got pummeled by that)
It's beautiful to see one's creation going back at its creator.
On a side note, other games included things as awesome as Golden Nymph-tal, Recluse-tal, Mummy-tal and even the all-classical Frogtal, which were more or less beatable.
Title: Re: Voting: Adaptation
Post by: nilsieboy on February 07, 2011, 07:48:35 am
now we can test fg in the trainer, i played against eternal crusade wich was REALLY fun. the AI plays it good, the deck is not to strong but not to weak. so my vote goes to eternal crusade :)
Title: Re: Voting: Adaptation
Post by: Kakerlake on February 07, 2011, 10:05:31 am
The new trainer feature is awesome!
Just battled Mj÷llnir and I gotta say, he's one tough cookie!
Sometimes the titans are just swarming in, another time lightnings and FW's will mostly clutter his hand.

Trainer-deckcode for those interested:
744 744 744 744 744 74c 74c 74c 74c 74c 74c 74h 74h 74h 7n2 7n2 7n2 7n2 7n2 7n2 80a 80a 80a 80a 80a 80a 81q 81q 81q 81q 81q 81q 8pl
The basic perfect counter:
Code: [Select]
6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 6rn 7dm 7dm 7dm 7dm 7dm 7dm 7jp 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q0 7q4 7q4 7q4 7q4 7q4 7q8 7q8Explosions are for the Catapults, Rewind for flying Titans. Rewind photon as soon as possible, only stop to rewind Titan, or if you have too few explosions.
Though I'd suggest changing the counter a little. With this one it is just waiting for mj÷llnir to deckout. A little damage, drawpower and other stuff will make the battle more interesting.
Title: Re: Voting: Adaptation
Post by: Pineapple on February 07, 2011, 11:13:57 am
by patchx94
Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
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I dare you to face Lancelot and say "It's way too easy."
--
I'll admit that Essence was correct on one thing. The AI does use cc too much, especially on RoLs that do not really need to be there (-1 :light per turn doesn't hurt as much as -10 damage, and yet it wastes lance after lance on RoLs). However, note that not only does zanz have the ability to change the AI and that in timebows and ccyb, creatures are quinted (lest they be lanced to death). In addition, Lancelot can easily outrush a rush deck, with a lot of damage from physalias popping 6 and 7 turn wins on a good draw. In addition, Lancelot has amazing creature control a la 12 ice lances. This is not a "bad deck", and it can beat CCYB and timebows. Why shouldn't you vote for it?
Title: Re: Voting: Adaptation
Post by: Essence on February 08, 2011, 06:18:44 pm
For the record, I played about two dozen games with some of the most common FG decks vs. Aqrabteini, and she's too damn hard.  :)
Title: Re: Voting: Adaptation
Post by: Pineapple on February 08, 2011, 08:54:14 pm
After extensive testing, I have concluded that anything with SoGs can utterly pwn Lancelot. Please don't vote for it, as it can barely kill anything that has 6 SoGs. It would make a terrible addition to the game, as most fg-killers have SoGs.
Title: Re: Voting: Adaptation
Post by: TimerClock14 on February 08, 2011, 09:00:20 pm
Heh, turns out Xyosis kinda sucks. The AI can't play the deck right.
Title: Re: Voting: Adaptation
Post by: Newbiecake on February 08, 2011, 09:38:20 pm
CCYB fares fine against Eternal Crusader once you deny it of Quantum Towers with your Pulvy. But a negative thing is the Eternal Crusader becomes slightly imbalanced because of the ratio of 8 Quantum Towers vs 2 Pulvy and 2 Vampire Dagger, which is hard to play because I originally only wanted 1 of each in the deck, but this isn't possible. As a result, I've removed them from the deck. However, I now face a problem against the cometition organizers because I am not allowed to change my submission after the deadline because the votes reflect that the submitted version is what the community wants. So I urge you guys, please put in a good word for the adjusted version (found in the FG Proposals) because it is much more balanced and has a much improved chance to have winning spins!
Title: Re: Voting: Adaptation
Post by: Essence on February 08, 2011, 11:07:42 pm
Just a note -- Mimic is a pushover.  With zero permanent control because he almost never uses his own Improved Mutations on whatever comes out of his Fate Eggs (and Destroy/Steal aren't exactly everyday occurrences on the Mutant list, either), Mimic loses to SoGs and Permafrost; he's almost trivial to deckout with CCYB -- not that you need to, because he can't handle a Quinted Lava Golem in any way shape or form, either. 

There's just no meat there.


Also, the AI doesn't play Zeus well at all.  All of the BLights get dropped as soon as they're drawn, and he ends up Fractalling the Phase SPiders instead -- which in turn makes the Sky Blitzes useless.  As much as I love the concept, I played 20 games and never once saw the AI pull a Blighted Blitz. :(
Title: Re: Voting: Adaptation
Post by: Newbiecake on February 08, 2011, 11:20:39 pm
Ha. That leaves Eternal Crusader as the competition to those two to test for playability. The adjusted version, mind you, would be better because of what I explained above.

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Title: Re: Voting: Adaptation
Post by: Essence on February 08, 2011, 11:35:26 pm
Actually, I played several games vs. the original version, and I found that, while the Vampire Daggers were almost always played and then immediately played over, the Pulvys were really dangerous, especially with Crusaders running around Endowing them.  But then,  I haven't played against the revision at all, so I can't really compare the two.
Title: Re: Voting: Adaptation
Post by: Newbiecake on February 08, 2011, 11:56:07 pm
Yeah, that's part of the reason why I didn't want Vampire Daggers and Pulverizers anymore. Eternities also tend to have the priority over Pulverizers, so they play over the Pulverizer as well. The two extra weapons comes out as wild cards when you get your spins and you never win them anyways. That's not fun. Removal of the two weapons are needed. I've been told that the deck that gets put into the game (if Zanz even takes an interest) cannot be altered much because the submitted version is how the community wants it, but if you guys put in a little voice...
Title: Re: Voting: Adaptation
Post by: Dragoon1140 on February 09, 2011, 12:25:16 am
I've been told that the deck that gets put into the game (if Zanz even takes an interest) cannot be altered much because the submitted version is how the community wants it, but if you guys put in a little voice...
It seems like more and more people are starting to realize that the community voted for decks that the AI couldn't use.  You were the first of two people who PM'd me wanting to change their deck.  As I've told you already, changing the deck that the community wanted to see in the game is a risky move.

Perhaps I'll change my opinion after I speak with fellow Competition Organizers about this.
As Essence said:
Game balance > Forum Competition
Title: Re: Voting: Adaptation
Post by: Essence on February 09, 2011, 12:28:09 am
For the record, I was the second person, as playtesting with the new Trainer feature revealed a huge problem with Jezebel consistently targeting her own Water Pillars even when her Quantum Pillars were greater in number AND slotted first.  She ate her own :water quanta up creating a swarm of lethal 1/4 attackers, and then didn't have any left to create anything else!

:D

Changing the Mark to Water and swapping out the Water Towers/Pends for Pests, however, made her work perfectly -- not too strong (probably actually in the bottom 50% for sheer power), but always mysterious and always actually threatening.  There's really not much like seeing Nymph's Tears, thinking 'ah, it's probably another Death Nymph or whatever', and then suddenly watching all of your quanta disappearing down a Black Hole. 8)


I strongly encourage Wizardcat and TNG to playtest Hecate and Serket using the new system as well -- literally, not doing it is just potentially wasting Zanz' time, as (if they don't work right) he'll have to modify the decks himself once they're in-game.  Isn't it better all around if the deck's creators do that part for him?  :)
Title: Re: Voting: Adaptation
Post by: Newbiecake on February 09, 2011, 12:35:13 am
Quote
It seems like more and more people are starting to realize that the community voted for decks that the AI couldn't use.  You were the first of two people who PM'd me wanting to change their deck.  As I've told you already, changing the deck that the community wanted to see in the game is a risky move.

Perhaps I'll change my opinion after I speak with fellow Competition Organizers about this.
As Essence said:
Game balance > Forum Competition
Very true! Game balance is the utmost important thing. With the recent arrival of the FG mode in the Trainer, we're starting to realize that certain decks can't be played. That is precisely the reason why some small adjustments need to be made, or several out of the four FG competition will be trashed. Glad there might a faint hope of a chance for adjustments. :D

Quote
I strongly encourage Wizardcat and TNG to playtest Hecate and Serket using the new system as well -- literally, not doing it is just potentially wasting Zanz' time, as (if they don't work right) he'll have to modify the decks himself once they're in-game.  Isn't it better all around if the deck's creators do that part for him?
 
That's exactly what I'm doing...if Eternal Crusader has the honour to win.

EDIT: Just tested Hecate. He tends to spread his Rage Elixirs amongst all the Voodoo Dolls. You guys will get an army of 6/14 Voodoo Dolls after you. :O
Serket tested as well. Very tough on CCYB, but RoL/ Fractal destroyed it.
Title: Re: Voting: Adaptation
Post by: Dragoon1140 on February 09, 2011, 12:41:57 am
After discussion with the other Competition Organizers, we've decided that the winners of the competition may not change the decks that won the polls.  Our reasoning is that Zanz will make any necessary changes that he finds suitable, if, indeed, these are the decks to be added to the game.

We are sorry for any frustration that may result from this.
Title: Re: Voting: Adaptation
Post by: Essence on February 09, 2011, 12:44:10 am
Oh, well.  Can you at least show him links to the FG Proposals threads along with the decks themselves, so he can see what we THINK should be done with them?  I'd much rather have him see up front that they won't work as-is -- IF they are the decks that make it into the game. :)
Title: Re: Voting: Adaptation
Post by: Kamietsu on February 09, 2011, 12:45:49 am
To clarify a little bit more. When we give the decks to Zanz, we will present any problems with them that the creator of the deck has discovered, and a possible solution. Zanz will have the ultimate say if the decks will be changed(if he decides to implement the winning decks at all). Once we hear from Zanz on the matter, decks can be changed a little to work better.
Title: Re: Voting: Adaptation
Post by: Newbiecake on February 09, 2011, 12:47:30 am
So he will be notified to take the time to go over our discussion threads, correct? Thank you, competition organizers. This is the very solution I'm seeking.
Title: Re: Voting: Adaptation
Post by: Kamietsu on February 09, 2011, 12:54:24 am
So he will be notified to take the time to go over our discussion threads, correct? Thank you, competition organizers. This is the very solution I'm seeking.
Yes/no. He will hopefully be made aware of the threads, but we, or SG, will just present the issues to Zanz, since the quickest method would be the best, and reading through a thread isn't as quick as just telling him upfront. Such as, he will hopefully be told that Jezebel has issues of targetting her water towers over quantum at all times. But it all depends on who talks to him, since SG isn't here currently, she currently isn't aware of the issues going on with this. But we shoudl be able to talk to her before she gets a message out to Zanz with the decks.
Title: Re: Voting: Adaptation
Post by: Essence on February 09, 2011, 01:04:59 am
How about this: why don't we who have tested the decks write up a short blurb describing the problem and how we solved it, and you can just append that to whatever else you give Zanz?   That creates minimal work for you (copy/paste), and minimal work for Zanz (as he already has a proposed and playtested solution in hand), while not taking anything away from the voters (because Zanz stills sees the originally proposed deck first) or Zanz (who still as always has final say on what get into the game.)
Title: Re: Voting: Adaptation
Post by: Newbiecake on February 09, 2011, 01:10:32 am
How about this: why don't we who have tested the decks write up a short blurb describing the problem and how we solved it, and you can just append that to whatever else you give Zanz?   That creates minimal work for you (copy/paste), and minimal work for Zanz (as he already has a proposed and playtested solution in hand), while not taking anything away from the voters (because Zanz stills sees the originally proposed deck first) or Zanz (who still as always has final say on what get into the game.)

Yes, this is a great idea. With all due respect to competition organizers, but we the deck creators probably has more experience with the deck than you guys, thus allowing us to describe to problem better and make life easier for you guys and Zanz. Win-win situation here. :)

Quote
More importantly, we have more experience with our decks than Zanz does, and we're more likely to come up with a solution that keeps the deck in-theme with the nature of the contest and it's original intent than he is.


Exactly.
Title: Re: Voting: Adaptation
Post by: Essence on February 09, 2011, 01:27:25 am
More importantly, we have more experience with our decks than Zanz does, and we're more likely to come up with a solution that keeps the deck in-theme with the nature of the contest and its original intent than he is.
Title: Re: Voting: Adaptation
Post by: Kamietsu on February 09, 2011, 01:30:07 am
That's actually a good idea. On your FG proposal threads, please place the original Poll deck and a description of what's wrong and how to fix it just under it. Something like this:

Poll Deck
What's wrong and how to fix it.
Title: Re: Voting: Adaptation
Post by: Newbiecake on February 09, 2011, 01:32:27 am
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,20187.0.html

Is this what you're looking for?
Title: Re: Voting: Adaptation
Post by: Kamietsu on February 09, 2011, 01:36:28 am
No. Not even slightly. You have the old deck, but you do not have written anywhere what is wrong with the deck and how to fix it.

Literally, just use that tiny table I put up there. it doesn't have to look nice and neat. Just put the deck in the poll at the end of yoru FG proposal post, and then directly under it, write what is wwrong with the deck and how to fix it.
Title: Re: Voting: Adaptation
Post by: Newbiecake on February 09, 2011, 01:58:22 am
Fixed. Now does it suffice?
Title: Re: Voting: Adaptation
Post by: Dragoon1140 on February 09, 2011, 02:00:38 am
Fixed. Now does it suffice?
You are making this far too complicated

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It has too many Pendulums.  Take away three.
Title: Re: Voting: Adaptation
Post by: Newbiecake on February 09, 2011, 02:30:41 am
Trimmed down a huge chunk of it. I think the rest is necessary though. It'll only take a few minutes of reading and isn't confusing at all.
Title: Re: Voting: Adaptation
Post by: Dragoon1140 on February 09, 2011, 05:06:50 am
Topic Locked!
blarg: patchx94