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Offline Newbiecake

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Re: Voting: Adaptation http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=20615.msg267317#msg267317
« Reply #60 on: February 08, 2011, 11:20:39 pm »
Ha. That leaves Eternal Crusader as the competition to those two to test for playability. The adjusted version, mind you, would be better because of what I explained above.

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Offline Essence

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Re: Voting: Adaptation http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=20615.msg267331#msg267331
« Reply #61 on: February 08, 2011, 11:35:26 pm »
Actually, I played several games vs. the original version, and I found that, while the Vampire Daggers were almost always played and then immediately played over, the Pulvys were really dangerous, especially with Crusaders running around Endowing them.  But then,  I haven't played against the revision at all, so I can't really compare the two.
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Offline Newbiecake

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Re: Voting: Adaptation http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=20615.msg267348#msg267348
« Reply #62 on: February 08, 2011, 11:56:07 pm »
Yeah, that's part of the reason why I didn't want Vampire Daggers and Pulverizers anymore. Eternities also tend to have the priority over Pulverizers, so they play over the Pulverizer as well. The two extra weapons comes out as wild cards when you get your spins and you never win them anyways. That's not fun. Removal of the two weapons are needed. I've been told that the deck that gets put into the game (if Zanz even takes an interest) cannot be altered much because the submitted version is how the community wants it, but if you guys put in a little voice...
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Offline Dragoon1140Topic starter

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Re: Voting: Adaptation http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=20615.msg267367#msg267367
« Reply #63 on: February 09, 2011, 12:25:16 am »
I've been told that the deck that gets put into the game (if Zanz even takes an interest) cannot be altered much because the submitted version is how the community wants it, but if you guys put in a little voice...
It seems like more and more people are starting to realize that the community voted for decks that the AI couldn't use.  You were the first of two people who PM'd me wanting to change their deck.  As I've told you already, changing the deck that the community wanted to see in the game is a risky move.

Perhaps I'll change my opinion after I speak with fellow Competition Organizers about this.
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Offline Essence

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Re: Voting: Adaptation http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=20615.msg267369#msg267369
« Reply #64 on: February 09, 2011, 12:28:09 am »
For the record, I was the second person, as playtesting with the new Trainer feature revealed a huge problem with Jezebel consistently targeting her own Water Pillars even when her Quantum Pillars were greater in number AND slotted first.  She ate her own :water quanta up creating a swarm of lethal 1/4 attackers, and then didn't have any left to create anything else!

:D

Changing the Mark to Water and swapping out the Water Towers/Pends for Pests, however, made her work perfectly -- not too strong (probably actually in the bottom 50% for sheer power), but always mysterious and always actually threatening.  There's really not much like seeing Nymph's Tears, thinking 'ah, it's probably another Death Nymph or whatever', and then suddenly watching all of your quanta disappearing down a Black Hole. 8)


I strongly encourage Wizardcat and TNG to playtest Hecate and Serket using the new system as well -- literally, not doing it is just potentially wasting Zanz' time, as (if they don't work right) he'll have to modify the decks himself once they're in-game.  Isn't it better all around if the deck's creators do that part for him?  :)
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Offline Newbiecake

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Re: Voting: Adaptation http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=20615.msg267377#msg267377
« Reply #65 on: February 09, 2011, 12:35:13 am »
Quote
It seems like more and more people are starting to realize that the community voted for decks that the AI couldn't use.  You were the first of two people who PM'd me wanting to change their deck.  As I've told you already, changing the deck that the community wanted to see in the game is a risky move.

Perhaps I'll change my opinion after I speak with fellow Competition Organizers about this.
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Game balance > Forum Competition
Very true! Game balance is the utmost important thing. With the recent arrival of the FG mode in the Trainer, we're starting to realize that certain decks can't be played. That is precisely the reason why some small adjustments need to be made, or several out of the four FG competition will be trashed. Glad there might a faint hope of a chance for adjustments. :D

Quote
I strongly encourage Wizardcat and TNG to playtest Hecate and Serket using the new system as well -- literally, not doing it is just potentially wasting Zanz' time, as (if they don't work right) he'll have to modify the decks himself once they're in-game.  Isn't it better all around if the deck's creators do that part for him?
 
That's exactly what I'm doing...if Eternal Crusader has the honour to win.

EDIT: Just tested Hecate. He tends to spread his Rage Elixirs amongst all the Voodoo Dolls. You guys will get an army of 6/14 Voodoo Dolls after you. :O
Serket tested as well. Very tough on CCYB, but RoL/ Fractal destroyed it.
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Offline Dragoon1140Topic starter

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Re: Voting: Adaptation http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=20615.msg267383#msg267383
« Reply #66 on: February 09, 2011, 12:41:57 am »
After discussion with the other Competition Organizers, we've decided that the winners of the competition may not change the decks that won the polls.  Our reasoning is that Zanz will make any necessary changes that he finds suitable, if, indeed, these are the decks to be added to the game.

We are sorry for any frustration that may result from this.
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Offline Essence

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Re: Voting: Adaptation http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=20615.msg267386#msg267386
« Reply #67 on: February 09, 2011, 12:44:10 am »
Oh, well.  Can you at least show him links to the FG Proposals threads along with the decks themselves, so he can see what we THINK should be done with them?  I'd much rather have him see up front that they won't work as-is -- IF they are the decks that make it into the game. :)
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Offline Kamietsu

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Re: Voting: Adaptation http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=20615.msg267387#msg267387
« Reply #68 on: February 09, 2011, 12:45:49 am »
To clarify a little bit more. When we give the decks to Zanz, we will present any problems with them that the creator of the deck has discovered, and a possible solution. Zanz will have the ultimate say if the decks will be changed(if he decides to implement the winning decks at all). Once we hear from Zanz on the matter, decks can be changed a little to work better.
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Offline Newbiecake

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Re: Voting: Adaptation http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=20615.msg267389#msg267389
« Reply #69 on: February 09, 2011, 12:47:30 am »
So he will be notified to take the time to go over our discussion threads, correct? Thank you, competition organizers. This is the very solution I'm seeking.
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Re: Voting: Adaptation http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=20615.msg267392#msg267392
« Reply #70 on: February 09, 2011, 12:54:24 am »
So he will be notified to take the time to go over our discussion threads, correct? Thank you, competition organizers. This is the very solution I'm seeking.
Yes/no. He will hopefully be made aware of the threads, but we, or SG, will just present the issues to Zanz, since the quickest method would be the best, and reading through a thread isn't as quick as just telling him upfront. Such as, he will hopefully be told that Jezebel has issues of targetting her water towers over quantum at all times. But it all depends on who talks to him, since SG isn't here currently, she currently isn't aware of the issues going on with this. But we shoudl be able to talk to her before she gets a message out to Zanz with the decks.
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Offline Essence

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Re: Voting: Adaptation http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=20615.msg267397#msg267397
« Reply #71 on: February 09, 2011, 01:04:59 am »
How about this: why don't we who have tested the decks write up a short blurb describing the problem and how we solved it, and you can just append that to whatever else you give Zanz?   That creates minimal work for you (copy/paste), and minimal work for Zanz (as he already has a proposed and playtested solution in hand), while not taking anything away from the voters (because Zanz stills sees the originally proposed deck first) or Zanz (who still as always has final say on what get into the game.)
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anything
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