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Offline FlayneTopic starter

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Unshakable Pylon | Unshakable Monolith https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=60417.msg1214327#msg1214327
« on: November 10, 2015, 01:42:46 pm »
NAME:
Unshakable Pylon
ELEMENT:
Earth
COST:
6 :earth
TYPE:
Permanent
ATK|HP:

TEXT:
While in play your hp cannot fall below 1.  Drains 5 :earth per turn, x 2 for every turn after.
Destroyed if spell targeted.
NAME:
Unshakable Monolith
ELEMENT:
Earth
COST:
4 :earth
TYPE:
Permanent
ATK|HP:

TEXT:
While in play your hp cannot fall below 1.  Drains 5 :earth per turn, x 2 for every turn after.
Destroyed if spell targeted.

ART:
Flayne
IDEA:
Flayne
NOTES:
Basically last ditch card that helps keep you alive until you get a stone skin, heal, etc.

By destruction on spell/ability targeting, it means any "Permanent" altering skill such as "Steal" or "Enchant Artifact", as well spells/abilities that actually destroy permanents.

In the case of Steal, it will not go to the users side but will simply be destroyed.

In the case of Enchant artifact, while ironically it is a card of its own element, it would be too strong if it were to be unbreakable.
"Unshakable but certainly not Unbreakable"

Is destroyed once you cannot maintain it for a turn (not enough :earth on that turn )

*May need Cost and Upkeep changes, though this would not be too effective in a rainbow deck as a result of such maintenance costs. (Unless earth mark or something)


EDITED: Massively increased upkeep cost (as a result indirectly increased casting cost as well) which entails a pseudo-turn limit.
Also ANY Single target spell (Permanent targeting) can destroy this card, including the cards mentioned above.

SERIES:

« Last Edit: November 11, 2015, 02:04:41 am by Flayne »
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Offline Espithel

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Re: Unshakable Pylon | Unshakable Monolith https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=60417.msg1214329#msg1214329
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2015, 01:51:59 pm »
Consider how you can have six of these, yet decks rarely bring six instances of PC.

Not six AT THE SAME TIME, mind you, but I think that's a critical issue.

Offline FlayneTopic starter

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Re: Unshakable Pylon | Unshakable Monolith https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=60417.msg1214332#msg1214332
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2015, 02:23:20 pm »
Consider how you can have six of these, yet decks rarely bring six instances of PC.

Not six AT THE SAME TIME, mind you, but I think that's a critical issue.

Are you referring to the cost?

Well, as it stands if one were to play this card unupped, It would cost 9 :earth to actually play it, so it would be more essential to upgrade it so it would cost 7 :earth instead.

I am wondering about the balance of the cost, though my issue is that, any lower and it may be susceptible to rainbow abuse. I specifically wanted this to be another option for Earth :earth (or Duo-trio) to stand its ground and enhance its strong willed nature.

« Last Edit: November 10, 2015, 02:26:47 pm by Flayne »
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Offline Treldon

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Re: Unshakable Pylon | Unshakable Monolith https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=60417.msg1214335#msg1214335
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2015, 02:39:07 pm »
Cost is not the issue. The issue is that very few decks have capacity for 6 PC, which means that this card could very easily be an auto win in let's say 85% of games
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Offline FlayneTopic starter

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Re: Unshakable Pylon | Unshakable Monolith https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=60417.msg1214336#msg1214336
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2015, 02:42:05 pm »
Cost is not the issue. The issue is that very few decks have capacity for 6 PC, which means that this card could very easily be an auto win in let's say 85% of games

Ah I see, perhaps I should increase cost or Change it to "Any spell" (ex: fire bolt), that way it can also be affected by single target creature control?

« Last Edit: November 10, 2015, 02:45:19 pm by Flayne »
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Offline Submachine

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Re: Unshakable Pylon | Unshakable Monolith https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=60417.msg1214337#msg1214337
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2015, 02:46:36 pm »
Maybe make it only work for limited turns?
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Offline Espithel

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Re: Unshakable Pylon | Unshakable Monolith https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=60417.msg1214338#msg1214338
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2015, 02:48:31 pm »
The problem is, though, if your opponent can't destroy this, and you have three earth pillars in play... You win. The only event where you don't win is if you deck out before they do, which, well... It's possible to delay being decked out ad infinitum via Eternity... And assuming that you don't just kill your opponent in one of the many horrible stallbreaky ways available (Pharaoh if you're going to go with eternity, pulverizer to add some momentum... Arsenic, maybe? Pylons combo nice with SoSac.)

The problem here isn't really the cost. The problem here is you can run six of them.
Which means your opponent needs to destroy them six times... Or kill you before you play too many of them.
This is something most decks simply cannot do. Combine it with dims, and holy cow.

It means your opponent either needs to run a pulverizer, an earth/gravity duo card, something not very many decks can run... Butterfly Effect, one of the worst cards in the game, or six copies deflags or steals, something that no rush would ever do.

Essentially, it's dims on steroids; With dims, if you can't get around it, you lose. Fortunately, that's not too difficult.
With this, if you can't destroy them all... You lose.


Increasing the cost will not change a thing, really. Well, it would, but due to how weird quanta balancing is in the higher costs (It's not linear) it won't really give a desired effect.

What you need to do is make this thing far more easier to deal with.

Preemptive edit: Don't ninja me Treldon ;~;
Yes, changing it to "If your opponent casts a spell, destroy this" should be at least a good first step.

Preemptive edit: Don't ninja me Submachine ;~;
That'd work a lot better.

Offline FlayneTopic starter

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Re: Unshakable Pylon | Unshakable Monolith https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=60417.msg1214341#msg1214341
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2015, 05:03:19 pm »
EDITED: Massively increased upkeep cost (as a result indirectly increased casting cost as well) which entails a pseudo-turn limit.
Also ANY Single target spell can destroy this card, including Steal and Enchant Artifact.

ex: Fire bolt or Rage potion as a single target spell can target Monolith, while Thunderstorm cannot as it is multiple target based.



Reasons: Since it was decided that it was way too strong, I had to fix it in such a way as:

1: Not allow it be abused by multiple editions and PC limited decks

2: Not changing the thematic-functional aspect of the card (ex: another dimensional shield :earth), while at the same time allowing people with limited PC but also having CC to be able to handle such a card.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2015, 05:12:03 pm by Flayne »
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Offline Treldon

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Re: Unshakable Pylon | Unshakable Monolith https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=60417.msg1214342#msg1214342
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2015, 05:18:40 pm »
I don't think it can be targeted by CC spells since it's not a creature
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Re: Unshakable Pylon | Unshakable Monolith https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=60417.msg1214349#msg1214349
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2015, 05:41:10 pm »
I don't think it can be targeted by CC spells since it's not a creature
Well, obviously.  :-\

It's just for a change, though it may be hard on game coding, it gives more of a chance to deal with it since as you said, it is not common to run 6PC but it is more likely that decks will run with a bit of PC and CC.


« Last Edit: November 10, 2015, 05:43:50 pm by Flayne »
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Offline Treldon

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Re: Unshakable Pylon | Unshakable Monolith https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=60417.msg1214351#msg1214351
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2015, 05:41:50 pm »
I don't think it can be targeted by CC spells since it's not a creature
Well, obviously.  :-\

It's just for a change, though it may be hard on game coding.

That's what I meant
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Re: Unshakable Pylon | Unshakable Monolith https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=60417.msg1214389#msg1214389
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2015, 11:21:47 pm »
I don't think it can be targeted by CC spells since it's not a creature
Well, obviously.  :-\

It's just for a change, though it may be hard on game coding.

That's what I meant

Hmm, then might it be enough just with the increased upkeep (pseudo-turn limit) and the spell cards that target permanents in general? (including steal and enchant artifact, etc.)
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anything
blarg: