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Offline ZwibiXTopic starter

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Cool Neurology | Cold Neurology https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=64546.msg1263646#msg1263646
« on: May 06, 2017, 05:13:41 pm »
NAME:
Cool Neurology
ELEMENT:
Water
COST:
2 :water
TYPE:
Permanent
ATK|HP:

TEXT:
User recovers 6% of their Health and loses one :water  each turn. Effect doesn't stack.
NAME:
Cold Neurology
ELEMENT:
Water
COST:
3 :water
TYPE:
Permanent
ATK|HP:

TEXT:
User recovers 9% of their Health and loses two :water  each turn. Effect doesn't stack.

ART:

IDEA:
ZwibiX
NOTES:
Counterpart card of Warm Neurology | Torrid Neurology. Effect doesn't stack, because then the user would quickly be depleted of quanta and if they are able to maintain these permanents, it would get too OP.
SERIES:

« Last Edit: May 10, 2017, 06:20:35 pm by ZwibiX »
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Offline OdinVanguard

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Re: Cool Neurology | Cold Neurology https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=64546.msg1263755#msg1263755
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2017, 04:47:21 pm »
This seems a little underpowered when compared to purify... at least in mono-water decks.
The only real advantage would be (essentially) forced combos with SoD or Stone Skin.

Right now, its cost is equivalent to 3 purifies and its effect yields essentially the same amount of healing... however, the upkeep would essentially require an extra 2.33 to 2.5 pillars, putting the effective cost at around 10 :underworld ... I think that is too expensive compared to just packing a few purifies... granted it can grow higher than purify in total output, but that is counterbalanced by the vulnerability to PC (which is not seen with purify). Finally, purify has the added bonus of being a good counter to poison because it removes all poison at the outset.

Alternatively, you could compare this to sanctuary, which heals 4 HP per turn for 4 unupped... Cost to healing wise that is equivalent, but sanctuary lacks the continual upkeep requirement and has the added bonus of protecting the player's hand and quanta.

All in all, this card is far too expensive for its effect. Outside of a combo with a very narrow list of off element cards, this card just isn't worth the effort. You need to bring down the cost and / or upkeep quite a bit I think.
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Offline ZwibiXTopic starter

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Re: Cool Neurology | Cold Neurology https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=64546.msg1263760#msg1263760
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2017, 07:17:45 pm »
Updates made! thank you for your feedback!
« Last Edit: May 09, 2017, 07:31:20 pm by ZwibiX »
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Offline Espithel

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Re: Cool Neurology | Cold Neurology https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=64546.msg1263761#msg1263761
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2017, 07:19:26 pm »
Why do you have to have the losing quanta restriction?

I'd rather have the card simply cost more (if it needs it, which, given Sanctuary, I have minor doubts). It's much more elegant that way.

Offline ZwibiXTopic starter

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Re: Cool Neurology | Cold Neurology https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=64546.msg1263763#msg1263763
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2017, 07:30:52 pm »
Since this card is the counterpart to the Warm Neurology | Torrid Neurology card, I wanted to "mirror" this card to its counterpart. But do you think it's completely alright to just remove the quantum depletion or should I also add additional nerfs to the card to make it more balanced? I'll think of this as well. But I think it would be weird to just make it a counterpart to Sanctuary (Sanctuary also halts enemies attempts to modify your quanta pool, perhaps an other equally interesting effect to this card?)
« Last Edit: May 09, 2017, 07:33:44 pm by ZwibiX »
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Offline ZwibiXTopic starter

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Re: Cool Neurology | Cold Neurology https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=64546.msg1263800#msg1263800
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2017, 10:42:06 am »
Updates made!
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Offline kaempfer13

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Re: Cool Neurology | Cold Neurology https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=64546.msg1263828#msg1263828
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2017, 02:17:11 pm »
well now its op

cutting cost to a third would have been fine with the original effect, but now you almost doubled the effect as well
I think it should heal 6/9% with the current costs (which is still the strongest consistent healing in an element that has both aoe and single target cc, but the upkeep is quite high)
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Offline ZwibiXTopic starter

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Re: Cool Neurology | Cold Neurology https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=64546.msg1263854#msg1263854
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2017, 04:49:56 pm »
Thank you for the feedback! Card effects are updated!
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Offline OdinVanguard

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Re: Cool Neurology | Cold Neurology https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=64546.msg1263860#msg1263860
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2017, 05:19:02 pm »
well now its op

cutting cost to a third would have been fine with the original effect, but now you almost doubled the effect as well
I think it should heal 6/9% with the current costs (which is still the strongest consistent healing in an element that has both aoe and single target cc, but the upkeep is quite high)
Given that this effect cannot stack, I think it is fine.
Compare with Sanctuary, which gives 4 healing per turn with no upkeep and added quanta and hand protection plus stacking.
Also, since there is upkeep you really need to factor that into the cost.
An upkeep of 1 per turn is effectively a cost of 3 to get the effect one time... more importantly, it is equivalent to needing +1 pillar to maintain.
That translates to about 2 :water + 1 extra card which has a cost value of roughly 4 quanta.
So the unupped version costs as much as sanctuary and trades the stacking, quanta, and hand protection for essentially a +2 healing per turn... that seems very well balanced to me.

As for the upped, I think its a little weak compared to unupped considering its upfront cast cost is 50% more and its upkeep is doubled but only yielding a 50% healing boost...
So in terms of cost theory, it has an effective +4 quanta cost for the upkeep and +1 cost from the cast cost and +2 for the standard upgrade value, so now it is essentially worth 9 :quanta for for 9% healing per turn versus 4 quanta for 6% healing per turn...
I think either the upkeep, cast cost, or both should be lowered to match the unupped... If you believe the +50% healing boost justifies a greater than 50% value boost, then just drop the cast cost and keep the higher upkeep.
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Offline ZwibiXTopic starter

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Re: Cool Neurology | Cold Neurology https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=64546.msg1263872#msg1263872
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2017, 06:21:03 pm »
That was a good point! Changes made!
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anything
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