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Offline ZwibiXTopic starter

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Disrupt | Distract https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=64547.msg1263678#msg1263678
« on: May 07, 2017, 11:10:10 am »
NAME:
Disrupt
ELEMENT:
Air
COST:
4 :air
TYPE:
Spell
ATK|HP:

TEXT:
Reverts enemy creatures to their base state and gives them -2/0.  Attack value can't be less than zero.
NAME:
Distract
ELEMENT:
Air
COST:
4 :air
TYPE:
Spell
ATK|HP:

TEXT:
Reverts enemy creatures to their base state and gives them -3/0.  Attack value can't be less than zero.

ART:

IDEA:
ZwibiX
NOTES:
Base state, as in how the creature card was before any effects were applied to it. I consider poison/aflatoxin and petrification to not be effects, but ailments, which is why this card doesn't remove them. Furthermore, the last part of the card will overwrite the first statement of the card, thus setting values of cards such as singularity to zero.
SERIES:

« Last Edit: May 10, 2017, 10:46:53 am by ZwibiX »
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Offline DoctorC

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Re: Disrupt | Distract https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=64547.msg1263680#msg1263680
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2017, 01:27:24 pm »
Quote
I don't think there yet exists a legitimate way to remove momentum from enemy creatures other than killing them.

There are lobotomizers and mind flayers.

In general: It's fairly obvious that you're new to the game. Maybe you should study it a little more? Your ideas are really unbalanced in both ways (overpowered and underpowered).

Specific to this one: Why bother? Not a lot of things have momentum skill. I mean, sure, we have "Web" ability, that only works on airborn creatures, but that's simply because there are flying creatures in every element. Momentum only exist in four cards - Momentum, Sapphire Charger, Chimera and Titan.
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Offline Aves

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Re: Disrupt | Distract https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=64547.msg1263681#msg1263681
« Reply #2 on: May 07, 2017, 01:29:01 pm »
You're half right. There's no way of removing momentum en masse, but there are plenty of ways of removing it without damage, either directly removing it with cards like Lobotomizer or Mind Flayer, or otherwise making the creature useless like Antimatter, Basilisk Blood, or Freeze.

Spoiler for card counter images:

I recommend moving away from directly being a counter to momentum, or at least expanding the cancellation effect to more status effects; that way, the card is less situational and has more utility, though even the attack reduction effect by itself is very interesting!

Edit @DoctorC: Sure, the anti-momentum focus might not be the best idea, but the card on its own merits can still be an interesting exercise in card balance. Consider how you would balance what is essentially a mass-CC version of antimatter's attack reduction. If the cost is too low, then it's too effective in stalls against most rushes. On the other hand, it comes in built with many counters, first and foremost being shard of patience and other damage-increasing stallbreakers. The anti-momentum effect helps it against stallbreakers, but is that enough to warrant a cost of 4|5? This card idea comes in with both high utility and many existing counters, and that definitely makes it worth further exploration.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2017, 01:35:41 pm by Aves »
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Offline ZwibiXTopic starter

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Re: Disrupt | Distract https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=64547.msg1263684#msg1263684
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2017, 04:22:41 pm »
Ok, would it be too much if the card would remove all the boosts/effects that weren't there to begin with? What I have thought of also is, that it would remove momentum and boosts gained from Growth, Steam and Ablaze. As stated in the description, it doesn't work like Antimatter, meaning that creatures affected by the card can't obtain negative Attack values, but then again several of these cards in a pack played in a row could be quite scary for the opponent to face depending on their deck, however solitarily it can't do much against high attack power creatures. And for future reference, I have played the game a lot, just had a long break from it  :silly:.
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Offline DoctorC

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Re: Disrupt | Distract https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=64547.msg1263685#msg1263685
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2017, 04:49:13 pm »
Ok, would it be too much if the card would remove all the boosts/effects that weren't there to begin with? What I have thought of also is, that it would remove momentum and boosts gained from Growth, Steam and Ablaze. As stated in the description, it doesn't work like Antimatter, meaning that creatures affected by the card can't obtain negative Attack values, but then again several of these cards in a pack played in a row could be quite scary for the opponent to face depending on their deck, however solitarily it can't do much against high attack power creatures. And for future reference, I have played the game a lot, just had a long break from it  :silly:.

So just a massive AOE Reverse Time?
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Offline ZwibiXTopic starter

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Re: Disrupt | Distract https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=64547.msg1263686#msg1263686
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2017, 04:51:25 pm »
Kind of DoctorC, but the creatures are still on play and their skills are not removed. For example, Graviton Fire Eaters Ablaze boosts would be removed by this card, but it can still use its ability afterwards.
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Offline Naii_the_Baf

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Re: Disrupt | Distract https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=64547.msg1263750#msg1263750
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2017, 12:15:33 pm »
 :time Reverse Time doesn't remove abilities, it only resets the card by sending it back to an "unplayed" state(read: send it back to deck). The only difference with this card's effects and :time Reverse Time's is that the card isn't sent back to deck. So, basically, this card is AoE creature reset, with any deck that doesn't change its creature's stats being a counter, plus this card has integrated :air Thunderstorm in it.

I have a question though: does this card also deal summoning sickness to the affected creatures?
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Offline ZwibiXTopic starter

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Re: Disrupt | Distract https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=64547.msg1263752#msg1263752
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2017, 01:52:06 pm »
I know the effect of Reverse Time, I believe I phrased myself a bit wrongly there. Your question is something I have not thought about, but I'd say Poison is not an effect and more like an ailment.
Oh yes and this card does not have Thunderstorm integrated on it, it does "attack damage" aka the creatures Attack stat is targeted.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2017, 02:07:26 pm by ZwibiX »
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Offline OdinVanguard

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Re: Disrupt | Distract https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=64547.msg1263754#msg1263754
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2017, 04:32:24 pm »
Personally, I like this card quite a bit. Despite the initial gut reaction of the community to say it is a redundancy, I think it would serve a useful role in the game...
There have been several comparisons to RT, but I think this card effect is more feasible to balance than a mass RT.
Although in terms of resetting card to their original state, this and a mass RT are roughly equivalent, mass RT is harder to balance because:
1) Sending cards back to the deck means they must be drawn again (clogs the player's draw and leads to effective card advantage)
2) Sending cards back to the deck means they must be cast again (leads to effective quanta advantage)
3) Sending cards back to the deck means that, for more than 1 card, they will not be available for use for several turns.

So in essence, this card is much less powerful than a mass RT.
-It does not provide card advantage,
-It does not provide quanta advantage,
-and, it does not postpone damage / ability uses.

On the other hand, this card has one advantage over a mass RT effect that I can think of right away. It is excellent in combination with other mass CC effects. For instance, it can remove buffs on  creatures that would let them survive an AOE attack.
E.g. whereas RT favors cards that allow repeatable single target effects, this card would favor single use mass target effects instead. This provides a nice thematic distinction

I think perhaps the best way to implement this effect, however, would just be to reset enemy creatures to their base card state. This avoids having to specifically what is and is not an unnatural boost.

All around I actually like this mechanic idea a lot.
It is easier to balance than a mass RT effect would be, and it is thematically and mechanically distinct.

I would rate this as 4 out of 5 stars right now. The only reason I don't think it should get 5 is that it is a bit inelegant in talking about 'unnatural boosts and effects' and would be better off just reseting creatures to their base card instead. (E.g. the creature just reverts back to exactly what it would be if cast from your hand)
Also, I think the damage effect is not necessary since :air already has thunderstorm for that...

Lastly, I think one very useful utility would be to allow this to target a player instead of just affecting the opponent. Assuming you intend this to also remove freeze and delay as well as stat and ability changes, then this would be an awesome counter to those effects if you could use it on your own creatures. I think you would have a really great card then!
« Last Edit: May 09, 2017, 04:51:55 pm by OdinVanguard »
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Offline ZwibiXTopic starter

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Re: Disrupt | Distract https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=64547.msg1263759#msg1263759
« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2017, 07:02:35 pm »
Card updated! Oh yes, and its attack damage, not actual damage!
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Offline OdinVanguard

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Re: Disrupt | Distract https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=64547.msg1263771#msg1263771
« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2017, 11:17:19 pm »
Card updated! Oh yes, and its attack damage, not actual damage!
Intersting... I would go with something like
"Reverts enemy creatures to their base state, then gives them -1|-0"

"Attack Damage" is a rather odd wording for that mechanic and would likely leave most players confused...

The odd thing about adding that mechanic onto this card is that it would never be able to stack with itself since it would always reset the card to its original state (or in the old version it would remove the stat change the last copy caused).
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Re: Disrupt | Distract https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=64547.msg1263785#msg1263785
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2017, 08:00:07 am »
I can't see the card picture :(
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