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Elements the Game => Card Ideas and Art => Topic started by: kirbylover314 on January 06, 2016, 02:03:20 am

Title: CI&A - Suggestions and Feedback
Post by: kirbylover314 on January 06, 2016, 02:03:20 am
Please post any questions or comments about the CIA here!



CDC Award Criteria found HERE (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/exhibition-hall/challenge-8-1-clerical/)
Title: Re: CIA Suggestions and Feedback
Post by: Solaris on January 06, 2016, 02:19:33 am
Thank you. Anyways, let's talk Crucible. Specifically, LFC. It seems to be that, if they aren't legacy cards made by forumgoers long farewell'd, people generally just submit their own cards, sometimes directly after posting it to the CIA itself. This is not necessarily a good thing, as far as quality control. Now that there's a fair amount of cards in Cygnia, is it possible that there could be some limitations towards submitting your own cards, or just cards as a whole to crucible? I know that it'd slow down the flow of cards coming in, but it'd increase the chance that people pick quality cards, rather than just throwing all the cards at the LFC thread that they can.
Title: Re: CIA Suggestions and Feedback
Post by: ddevans96 on January 06, 2016, 03:24:01 am
Thank you. Anyways, let's talk Crucible. Specifically, LFC. It seems to be that, if they aren't legacy cards made by forumgoers long farewell'd, people generally just submit their own cards, sometimes directly after posting it to the CIA itself. This is not necessarily a good thing, as far as quality control. Now that there's a fair amount of cards in Cygnia, is it possible that there could be some limitations towards submitting your own cards, or just cards as a whole to crucible? I know that it'd slow down the flow of cards coming in, but it'd increase the chance that people pick quality cards, rather than just throwing all the cards at the LFC thread that they can.

Submitting your own cards into the system is entirely the point. The Crucible is and should be open, with a minimum entry requirement, with the Crucible and Forge polls as the quality control barring entry of poor ideas into Cygnia.

If there is truly a concern that low quality cards are slipping into Cygnia due to overflow leading to lack of quality control, I think the better solution, rather than restricting input, would be restricting output - that is, making a third poll for the Armory and only placing those winners into Cygnia.
Title: Re: CIA Suggestions and Feedback
Post by: Solaris on January 06, 2016, 03:27:09 am
Thank you. Anyways, let's talk Crucible. Specifically, LFC. It seems to be that, if they aren't legacy cards made by forumgoers long farewell'd, people generally just submit their own cards, sometimes directly after posting it to the CIA itself. This is not necessarily a good thing, as far as quality control. Now that there's a fair amount of cards in Cygnia, is it possible that there could be some limitations towards submitting your own cards, or just cards as a whole to crucible? I know that it'd slow down the flow of cards coming in, but it'd increase the chance that people pick quality cards, rather than just throwing all the cards at the LFC thread that they can.

Submitting your own cards into the system is entirely the point. The Crucible is and should be open, with a minimum entry requirement, with the Crucible and Forge polls as the quality control barring entry of poor ideas into Cygnia.
Hmm, well, perhaps this is why I'm TO and not CC :P

I suggested this because I had heard/read a few times about someone remarking that there was a substantial amount of cards from one designer in the game, and I agreed.

Edit for the edit: That'd be something I'm for, personally. I'm unsure if it's totally to that point yet, but, it's certainly an option.
Title: Re: CIA Suggestions and Feedback
Post by: Hyroen on January 07, 2016, 03:59:53 pm
-snip-
That would likely have been me. I don't think it's in Cygnia's interest for it to become overpowered with 1 or 2 flavours, so to speak, as it seems to take on a highly personal dimension and may reduce morale for other designers. Not to mention, especially when CCs submit card ideas, this may become a conflict of interest, as CCs have control over polls, moving card threads, etc.

This is not to say that CCs should not submit card ideas, nor that card designers should consistently try to get their ideas into Cygnia, but the hope is that Cygnia is ultimately a fair, community effort.

Thoughts about how to manage these concerns are in the works, and if any suggestions can be offered to address these concerns, they are most welcomed.
Title: Re: CIA Suggestions and Feedback
Post by: Solaris on January 07, 2016, 05:03:47 pm
-snip-
Not to mention, especially when CCs submit card ideas, this may become a conflict of interest, as CCs have control over polls, moving card threads, etc.
This line here is unsettling to me. A CC's number one priority should be to move cards as they were voted. Perhaps I am interpreting this sentence wrong, but, if I am interpreting it correctly, I don't like it. There should be no bias when moving cards to and from boards, just as there is no bias in any other Staff position.
Title: Re: CIA Suggestions and Feedback
Post by: UTAlan on January 07, 2016, 05:07:12 pm
I think Hyroen agrees with you, but is just saying that there is potential for abuse. Hopefully the new app that I'm trying to finish up will reduce this risk.
Title: Re: CIA Suggestions and Feedback
Post by: Hyroen on January 07, 2016, 05:10:04 pm
Exactly, UTAlan. Responsible people are indeed chosen to be CCs, there is however potential for abuse, and due to being CC, there may be more vested interested in moving ideas along the system.
Title: Re: CIA Suggestions and Feedback
Post by: Solaris on January 07, 2016, 05:14:44 pm
Exactly, UTAlan. Responsible people are indeed chosen to be CCs, there is however potential for abuse, and due to being CC, there may be more vested interested in moving ideas along the system.
I think Hyroen agrees with you, but is just saying that there is potential for abuse. Hopefully the new app that I'm trying to finish up will reduce this risk.
Which is precisely where my issue lies. If a CC themselves is bringing up the topic of abuse, where a CC would be the abuser.. it just rubs me the wrong way. I'm not accusing anyone, just a bit rattled by the subject matter and the person bringing it up.
Title: Re: CIA Suggestions and Feedback
Post by: JonathanCrazyJ on January 07, 2016, 05:25:23 pm
That's a strange stance MMC. Surely it's better for a CC who is in a position of power to bring it up when they realise they would be able to do something biased.

If it's being talked about, it is in no way a risk.

For example, when I was considering being CO, I made sure about the protocol with COs submitting work in competitions. For me, bringing up this issue shows that Hyroen cares about his position, and wishes to improve the protocol surrounding it.
Title: Re: CIA Suggestions and Feedback
Post by: Hyroen on January 07, 2016, 05:39:39 pm
In the same way that a TO would know where the vulnerabilities for abuse lie, so do CCs. While one as a CC can take advantage of the system set in place, it is poor form to do so. There has never been a documented case of suspected foul play on behalf of any CC, and no one should have any reason to suspect otherwise.

Selection of Forum Staff is done precisely so that abuse would not be suspected of any staff member. We are all responsible individuals, with the sole goal of making each section of the forums a fun, fair and interesting part of the Elements Community experience.

We should all believe in the community members that Council chooses to be staff. They've been chosen for a reason and I, for one, believe that all staff members have intentions of living up to or exceeding expectations.



If mitigating the potential for abuse is a serious concern, we can definitely continue its discussion within this thread.
Title: Re: CIA Suggestions and Feedback
Post by: Blacksmith on January 13, 2016, 11:41:50 pm
The Cia seems to add up quickly. Only after 8 months the armory got 4 pages and over 100 cards . We need to come up with a way to solve this problem cause if Zanz would come back it's better to have a top 30 than top 200 etc. I recommend you to add another level to the Cia and start adding cards there!

I also think you should take some of the archieved cards from the armory and give them a second chance to go to the next level.
Title: Re: CIA Suggestions and Feedback
Post by: RootRanger on January 14, 2016, 01:23:26 am
Please post any questions or comments about the CIA here!
Tell me about Bane. Why does he wear the mask?
Title: Re: CIA Suggestions and Feedback
Post by: AD TienzuStorm on January 15, 2016, 12:37:32 am
The Cia seems to add up quickly. Only after 8 months the armory got 4 pages and over 100 cards . We need to come up with a way to solve this problem cause if Zanz would come back it's better to have a top 30 than top 200 etc. I recommend you to add another level to the Cia and start adding cards there!

I also think you should take some of the archieved cards from the armory and give them a second chance to go to the next level.

The speed will be taken care of by reducing amount of LCC cards accepted at a time (when the CIA is back in business of course). And IIRC, Higu is against adding another level simply because of forum space.

As far as archived cards, they do have a chance. If you notice any of the cards in the system that have a Legacy tag on them, they are ones that have been resubmitted to the LCC.
Title: Re: CIA Suggestions and Feedback
Post by: Blacksmith on January 15, 2016, 05:36:43 pm
The Cia seems to add up quickly. Only after 8 months the armory got 4 pages and over 100 cards . We need to come up with a way to solve this problem cause if Zanz would come back it's better to have a top 30 than top 200 etc. I recommend you to add another level to the Cia and start adding cards there!

I also think you should take some of the archieved cards from the armory and give them a second chance to go to the next level.

The speed will be taken care of by reducing amount of LCC cards accepted at a time (when the CIA is back in business of course).K that's good And IIRC, Higu is against adding another level simply because of forum space.Forum space? it would just be 1 more thing. And even if the speed is slowing down I think that the highest level shouldn't have more than 50 cards at a time. like 4 from each element.

As far as archived cards, they do have a chance. If you notice any of the cards in the system that have a Legacy tag on them, they are ones that have been resubmitted to the LCC.K Good!
Title: Re: CIA Suggestions and Feedback
Post by: CleanOnion on January 15, 2016, 05:52:18 pm
If we're concerned about forum space, maybe posts in the CI&A board that have been around for more than X months without being moved upwards to Crucible (and contain the "|" symbol in the title) should be permanently deleted?
Title: Re: CIA Suggestions and Feedback
Post by: russianspy1234 on January 15, 2016, 07:24:25 pm
If we're concerned about forum space, maybe posts in the CI&A board that have been around for more than X months without being moved upwards to Crucible (and contain the "|" symbol in the title) should be permanently deleted?

Why?  I mean, posts and topics themselves don't take much room, and the images are all hosted elsewhere.
Title: Re: CIA Suggestions and Feedback
Post by: Hyroen on January 15, 2016, 07:37:00 pm
If we're concerned about forum space, maybe posts in the CI&A board that have been around for more than X months without being moved upwards to Crucible (and contain the "|" symbol in the title) should be permanently deleted?

To keep track of every thread that's been around for >X amount of time might be quite the challenge indeed.

Aside, past ideas help newer Card Designers to be informed of how far we've come in terms of design, and what's been attempted; they help scaffold newer ideas.
Title: Re: CI&A Suggestions and Feedback
Post by: Solaris on January 23, 2016, 07:49:46 pm
Advertising LCC (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/card-ideas-and-art/link-crucible-candidates-here!/) more should be prioritized. There's currently 2 posts in there, and the last one was made November 16th, 2015.

EDIT: Also, where did the Quickdraw thread go? There were tons of ideas in there, ripe to be posted, and I can't seem to find it.
Title: Re: CI&A Suggestions and Feedback
Post by: AD TienzuStorm on January 23, 2016, 10:09:58 pm
Advertising LCC (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/card-ideas-and-art/link-crucible-candidates-here!/) more should be prioritized. There's currently 2 posts in there, and the last one was made November 16th, 2015.

EDIT: Also, where did the Quickdraw thread go? There were tons of ideas in there, ripe to be posted, and I can't seem to find it.

At the moment, the CIA is at a pause due to the staffing issue (right now, of the five CCs, only two have extensive experience using the current system and they are currently inactive; another one is mainly a programmer for Cygnia; the other two are - as of right now - new to this system). IIRC though, I think UTA is making a program to automatically work the levels system, which should lower the workload by a lot. But yes, once it starts, promoting LCC would be nice. Then again, a current goal is to slow the stream of cards making it into the Armory, but that's beside the point.

Quickdraw (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/exhibition-hall/guess-my-card-a-quickdraw-design-game/) is currently in the Exhibition Hall.
Title: Re: CI&A Suggestions and Feedback
Post by: Solaris on January 23, 2016, 10:30:05 pm
Advertising LCC (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/card-ideas-and-art/link-crucible-candidates-here!/) more should be prioritized. There's currently 2 posts in there, and the last one was made November 16th, 2015.

EDIT: Also, where did the Quickdraw thread go? There were tons of ideas in there, ripe to be posted, and I can't seem to find it.

At the moment, the CIA is at a pause due to the staffing issue (right now, of the five CCs, only two have extensive experience using the current system and they are currently inactive; another one is mainly a programmer for Cygnia; the other two are - as of right now - new to this system). IIRC though, I think UTA is making a program to automatically work the levels system, which should lower the workload by a lot. But yes, once it starts, promoting LCC would be nice. Then again, a current goal is to slow the stream of cards making it into the Armory, but that's beside the point.

Quickdraw (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/exhibition-hall/guess-my-card-a-quickdraw-design-game/) is currently in the Exhibition Hall.
Chunking this up a bit.

Quote
At the moment, the CIA is at a pause due to the staffing issue (right now, of the five CCs, only two have extensive experience using the current system and they are currently inactive;
Then, the likely option here is to remove the inactive CCs, hire new ones to replace them, and get it working ASAP, because ATM, it's just dead weight.

Quote
another one is mainly a programmer for Cygnia; the other two are - as of right now - new to this system
They really aren't that new to have being new as an excuse to not have CIA have all cylinders firing.

Quote
IIRC though, I think UTA is making a program to automatically work the levels system
Cool. UTAlan is awesome, we should praise him. This might remove the need for 5 CC's, as well.

Quote
But yes, once it starts, promoting LCC would be nice
Advertising is nice. Should be done more often. I know that people, myself included, tend to be forgetful, and if you don't regularly post in CIA, LCC can be forgotten. I, as a Tournament Organizer is, know how vital it is to advertise tourneys in Chat. I think it's improved the numbers per tourney, as did the reward changes, but that's not about CIA.

Quote
Then again, a current goal is to slow the stream of cards making it into the Armory
Response:
Quote
Now that there's a fair amount of cards in Cygnia, is it possible that there could be some limitations towards submitting your own cards, or just cards as a whole to crucible? I know that it'd slow down the flow of cards coming in, but it'd increase the chance that people pick quality cards, rather than just throwing all the cards at the LFC thread that they can.
Found in the 2nd post.

Quote
Quickdraw (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/exhibition-hall/guess-my-card-a-quickdraw-design-game/) is currently in the Exhibition Hall.
Cool. Transparency is a cool thing too, nice to know where/when things get shifted around.

Sidenote: Mildly amusing that a non-Curator responded X)
Title: Re: CI&A Suggestions and Feedback
Post by: Hyroen on January 24, 2016, 02:47:22 am
[snip]
Title: Re: CI&A - Suggestions and Feedback
Post by: Linkcat on April 03, 2016, 08:27:02 am
Another option to consider is to remove all the awards and give new gold, silver, and bronze rewards to the top 3 across all of the challenges.

Got the necro warning. This amuses me.
Title: Re: CI&A - Suggestions and Feedback
Post by: AD TienzuStorm on April 11, 2016, 01:45:26 am
I think this thread should be bumped as there seems to be a poll that has been put up with no notice (aside from that small mention in the CIA Announcements thread).

Anyways, I myself can't add much as of I didn't get any awards. But IMO, I'd say maybe halving the amount of CD awards given previously could work. Or, instead replace the previous awards with an overall award (like a red card shaped award that shows that this person has gotten awards before the CC transfer). It would still recognize the people who got awards, but would keep the rarity of the actual CD awards high. Although I suppose that may be unfair to the people who have a lot (like andretimpa IIRC). But meh.

EDIT: After looking more closely at the poll options, it gave me a slight variant of the idea above. Just remove all the previous awards given except for the gold awards. Then replace those with the representative awards.


EDIT #2: Okay wait no that's basically the second option um um forget I said that.
Title: Re: CI&A - Suggestions and Feedback
Post by: Hyroen on April 11, 2016, 02:14:52 am
...
Thank you for the bump. I didn't want to bump more than 1 thread.

This mainly affects 7 members and I know at least one would be comfortable with a complete removal and re-awarding of trophies. However, a pre-sweep trophy could definitely be considered.

There may be some upcoming changes to the Card Curator team. As such these changes may come into play at a later point in time when more discussion can be used for consideration.
Title: Re: CI&A - Suggestions and Feedback
Post by: Solaris on April 11, 2016, 02:22:02 am
Chose "Other". Explanation, as the option requested:

I think it'd be neat to have a "Card Design Cup", where only one person holds the award at any given time. It would be granted to whoever has the highest amount of points on the total leaderboard for the Card Design Challenges.
Title: Re: CI&A - Suggestions and Feedback
Post by: Solaris on April 11, 2016, 03:28:54 pm
Doublepost: My card, Dreadsteed, was promoted from Crucible to Forge, yet isn't in then Forge creatures poll. Why is this?
Title: Re: CI&A - Suggestions and Feedback
Post by: Hyroen on April 11, 2016, 06:04:41 pm
Doublepost: My card, Dreadsteed, was promoted from Crucible to Forge, yet isn't in then Forge creatures poll. Why is this?
Thanks for the catch. Neither Dreadsteed nor Clockworker had been included. This has been fixed.
blarg: