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Uzra

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Card Ideas by Uzra. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=410.msg3868#msg3868
« on: December 15, 2009, 10:09:50 pm »













Water
Card name: Wave/Tsunami
Card type: Spell/spell
Cost to play: 10 quantum / 13 quantum
Card text: Remove up to 20 random quantum from your opponent. / Remove up to 30 random quantum from your opponent.





Time
Card name: Infinity/Negative Infinity
Card type: Spell/spell
Cost to play: 20 quantum/16 quantum
Card text: Exchange life totals with your opponent. / same.

Darkness
Card name: Vampirism/Improved Vampirism
Card type: Spell/spell
Cost to play: 3 quantum / 2 quantum
Card text: Target creature gains vampirism (gain life = to the damage dealt)

Aether
Card name: Wormhole / Wormhole
Card type: Permanent/Permanent
Cost to play: 4 quantum / 4 quantum
Card text: 4 Time quantum: Put target creature from your hand into play / 3 Time quantum: Put target creature from your hand into play.

Card Ideas by Uzra. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=410.msg3869#msg3869
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2009, 10:09:50 pm »

Elite is usually only added before the name of an upgraded Creature. Other than that, these are very good ideas. =D

Card Ideas by Uzra. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=410.msg3870#msg3870
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2009, 10:09:50 pm »

He has a point there. I think "Improved" is used for spells.

Finale

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Card Ideas by Uzra. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=410.msg3871#msg3871
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2009, 10:09:50 pm »

I think these cards are too overowered:

Air
Card name: Flight/Elite Flight
Card type: Spell/spell
Cost to play: 4 quantum/ 4 quantum
Card text: Target creature gains +6/+0. / Target creature's attack is doubled.

Time
Card name: Infinity/Infinity
Card type: Spell/spell
Cost to play: 20 quantum/16 quantum
Card text: Exchange life totals with your opponent. / same.

Darkness
Card name: Vampirism/Elite Vampirism
Card type: Spell/spell
Cost to paly: 3 quantum / 2 quantum
Card text: Target creature gains vampirism (gain life = to the damage dealt)

and this card is condor:

Death.
Card name: Sadism/Elite Sadism
Card Type: Spell/Spell
Cost to Play: 2 Quantum/3 Quantum
Card Text: Target creature gains +1/+1 whenever another creature dies./Target creature gains +2/+2 whenever another creature dies.

but I think the others are ok

Uzra

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Card Ideas by Uzra. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=410.msg4162#msg4162
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2009, 10:09:51 pm »

I think these cards are too overowered:

Air
Card name: Flight/Elite Flight
Card type: Spell/spell
Cost to play: 4 quantum/ 4 quantum
Card text: Target creature gains +6/+0. / Target creature's attack is doubled.
+6/+0 for 4 air quantum is powerful but not overpowered.  I can show this in at least two ways.  
First consider two other cards.

Plate Armor
Summon cost: 1
Abilities: Target creature gains +0/+3

Blessing
Summon cost: 3
Abilities: Target creature gets +3/+3.

From this we can deduce that +3/+0 should cost 2 quantum. So I can make the argument that +6/+0 should cost 4 quantum.  Now you might make the claim that since it's a bulk amount of attack, it should cost a little more than 4. Possible.  But if, and that's an if, it should cost 5 for 6 attack, I'd rather reduce the card to +5/+1 or +5/+0 and keep the cost at 4.

The 2nd way I can show that it is not overpowered is to consider the following card.

Lava Golem
Type: Creature
Summon cost: 4
Stats Damage/Life: 5/1
Abilities: Growth: Lava Golem gains +2/+2

First the common characteristics.  This is 5 damage a turn for 4 quantum. Where as my card is 6 damage a turn for 4 quantum.  Without even taking into consideration the fact that Lava Golem has Growth, I can argue that lava golem is more powerful solely because it is a creature.  
A.) It doesn't need a creature to be on the bored in order for it to be played.
B.) If there is another creature on the bored in your control, and the opponent has a creature removal spell (reverse time, drain life, fire bolt, chaos seed, etc...) then you will still have an extra creature on the bored as a result of lava golem not being a creature enhancement card and instead a creature.  This fact can not be stressed enough. This is why creature enhancement cards can, and in general should, cost less than creatures with the same stats.  

One other point is that this card costs air quantum.  An element that rainbow decks are usually short on due to 1-2 Faerie Queens and an Eagle's Eye + eagle eye ability. So what decks would pack a few of these cards and would those decks be overpowered?  There are many options, Momentum decks, Drain life decks, dive decks, perhaps even useful with parallel universe (although that'd be another card that required a creature to use :() All these decks currently either don't exist, or are not yet powerful in comparison to other decks.

So to you, or anyone else, please let me know if you think it is still too powerful, and if so which do you think is not too powerful, 4 air quantum for +5/+1 or 4 air quantum for +5/+0 ?

Moving on to the upgraded version. 4 Quantum to double the power of the creature.  If it was limited to one per deck I'd tell you to b***** off.  But thinking it over I realized just what would happen if applied to the same creature multiple times.  I'm going to change this to limit that possibility dramatically. See first post for updates.

I think these cards are too overowered:

Time
Card name: Infinity/Infinity
Card type: Spell/spell
Cost to play: 20 quantum/16 quantum
Card text: Exchange life totals with your opponent. / same.
I'll try to make the case that this too, is not overpowered.  It will need a lot of argument so try to bear with me and point out things I don't mention or get wrong.  Let's leave aside the cost to play for now and just focus on the ability.  If the game were sometimes such that only a small amount of damage was dealt a turn you might consider a scenario where you wait for your opponent to bring you down to 5-15 health and then use this card and follow it with a few direct damage spells.  This scenario would make one think that the ability is overpowered but how likely is this scenario? and more importantly, is there any other kind of deck that the card would have use?

Well suppose you use this card in a deck that has creatures, and defense, and tries to kill the opponent without relying on this card.  Wouldn't this card be counter-productive? It might, on occasion, be used when your opponent has say.. 60 health and you have say.. 30 health.  This often happens so what about this scenario?  Is it as likely as you having 60 health and your opponent having 30 health? It should be almost as likely if, excluding this card, both decks have the same goal and close to the same way of achieving it.  So it'd be useful half the time and the other half it'd be not-so useful.  If we ignore all other possibilities how much would the cost have to be to make this card not overpowered? Well the deck will have to have time as mark, many time pillars, or even more quantum pillars + stalling cards like shields and sundials.  Let's consider the 3 possibilites.

Suppose the deck is mono time, then the deck will be using time quantum through out the game to deal damage to the opponent and control the opponent, how much quantum would they have in excess on the average game when this card would be useful? Vs a speed deck, the answer is not very much.. They'd be lucky to both be alive and have 20 quantum at the same time by the time their health is extremely low.  In this scenario we can argue that 20 quantum is too high a price to make the card useful.  What about against non-speed decks?  Non speed decks do start off slow but build up rather quickly.  Supposing that mono time always has trouble with other control decks, and always has less life than the opponent (even tho that is not the goal of the deck so, in reality, it will only happen part of the time) how much quantum sounds right?  In this scenario the mono time deck can plan to play this card every game, and thus design the deck to save up 20 time quantum by the ~15th or 20th turn every time even while playing everything in his hand.  Here I would suggest 25-30 quantum to make it hard for the mono time player.  But then remembering that in reality the card might actually have no use I would lower it down to 20-25 quantum.

What about for duo decks?  All the scenarios would be the same, except It'd be harder for the duo player to save quantum.  Thus whatever was about right before, is now a maximum for this scenario alone.

What about for rainbow decks?  It'd be even harder for rainbow decks to save time quantum simply because they can not mass time pillars.  Even ignoring hourglass costs, which are useful to keep stalls going so that you can save more time quantum, if we imagine that the rainbow deck can stall every game long enough to get X time quantum (not always the case) then what's an appropriate value for X so that it's not 'too' easy and thus overpowered?  This question is well defined, but the answer isn't simple.  It would require some statistics.  But again, we are assuming that this rainbow deck plans to kill the opponent regardless of having this card, it is only in the deck for the odd time that it would be useful.  One question we should ask is 'on those occasions where it is useful is it as useful as miracle?' Let's go back to our 30 life for the deck with this card, and 60 life for the opponent (an extreme case if you are trying to kill the opponent). Miracle decreases your opponents advantage over you by (99-30) 69 HP.  This card, Infinity, give you 30 HP, and removes 30 HP from your opponent. That puts you ahead by 60 HP.  In this case, miracle is the better option even if we ignore cost.  If we factor in cost, miracle is 12 quantum and this is set at 20.  Miracle is also light quantum where as this is time quantum and time quantum is used in rainbow decks where as light is not used.  One argument you can make is that rainbow can use time as mark and often does.  This is true and one reason to make the cost at least as high as miracle.  Another argument you can make is that miracle removes all your light quantum when you use it and that's a hidden cost.  This is a very good argument for this card to cost much more than miracle.  But then miracle is always useful, it's never a dead card in your hand that you avoided putting hourglasses in your deck/playing hourglasses in order to guarantee the time quantum to use. In this scenario, ignoring all else, I think 20-25 quantum is reasonable.

But we still have to deal with the first scenario, where you wait for your opponent to bring you down to 5-15 health and then use this card and follow it with a few direct damage spells.  Well what damage spells? thunderbolt? Suppose you have 6 thunderbolt in your deck, eather as mark, all time pillars, and a few infinity.  What are the odds that you have all 6 thunderbolts in your hand when you reach < 31 (5X6) health? If we give you a large amount of turns before your opponent brings you down to 30 or less health, say... you draw 20/30 cards from your deck.  Less than 5% according to the odds calculator.  What about 5 of them? again very small less than 10%. So just for the sake of argument we'll assume you get 4/6 of your thunderbolts.  That's 20 damage.  Your opponents killing blow would have to be when you are under 21 health.  If it was while you were over 21 health you would be unable to kill him.  And any damage done before infinity would, in effect, only be damage done to you so creatures. or a weapon won't help.  What about if we use fire and fire bolts + Fahrenheit ? The health goes up to, what I propose, is the best option around 40-60 health (assuming 24+ fire quantum, 4 fire lances, and a Fahrenheit in hand).  Well this does seem a tad overpowered to me.  So what cost could we give to infinity so that this is only possible some of the time?  IF time is your mark, and all your pillars are fire, then it would take 20 turns to get enough quantum to play infinity.  That's actually too long to stay alive without any control for most opponents.  But you could cut it in half by paying a time pillar early on or even less with 2 time pillars.  10 turns seems overpowered again.  But.. can you get enough fire quantum in 10 turns? No. The more time pillars you have in the deck, the less fire pillars, and the lower your health can get without you being able to pull off the combo (fire lance and Fahrenheit need lots of fire quantum).  Considering just this scenario how much would be not too powerful? I'd say 20-25 quantum.  

Taking the average I'd say 20 might be a good number for the upgraded version and perhaps 26 for the non-upgraded.  I welcome criticism.

Darkness
Card name: Vampirism/Elite Vampirism
Card type: Spell/spell
Cost to paly: 3 quantum / 2 quantum
Card text: Target creature gains vampirism (gain life = to the damage dealt)
I think for this, you'll have to show why it's overpowered.  Here I'd be willing to up the cost as high as 5/3 but still need examples/reasons.  To help you out, most decks can kill black dragon the turn after it comes into play.

and this card is condor:

Death.
Card name: Sadism/Elite Sadism
Card Type: Spell/Spell
Cost to Play: 2 Quantum/3 Quantum
Card Text: Target creature gains +1/+1 whenever another creature dies./Target creature gains +2/+2 whenever another creature dies.
2 quantum for +1/+1 when a creature dies is perhaps underpowered at best.  The creature gets no immediate benefit and you don't get a creature to live passed the next enemy creature control (reverse time, fire bolt, otyugh, etc..) And +1/+1 over time can add up, but not as quickly as grow.  Suppose you can kill a creature every turn (likely?).  Then this card will deal 1 damage the turn it comes into play, 2 damage the next turn, then 3, 4, 5, etc..  compared with blessing which is 3, 3, 3, 3, etc...
Total for this card each turn: 1,3,9,13
total for blessing each turn: 3,6,9,12
This card surpasses blessing over the long run. Does that make it overpowered? No. That's not even taking into consideration that blessing can stop otyugh, fire lance, eagle's eye, etc the very turn it's played, where as this card by contrast can not.  I think it's a clear case for +1/+1.  But perhaps your objection is with +2/+2 for the upgraded version.

Again, it's not a creature on it's own, like Lava Golem who, by the way, gets+2/+2 each turn.  It doesn't guarante +2/+2 each turn (although sometimes a lot more which I'll get to).  It doesn't stop otyugh on new creature like blessing does. It's removed completely by fallen elf / lobotomy / mind flayer unlike power/toughness cards. Compared to blessing damage we have
Total damage:2,6,12,20 (+/-)
Total damage:3,6,9,12

Well you might be thinking of combining it with say.. fire storm.  That would be quite powerful if the opponent has a few low HP creatures. I might agree to increase the cost to 5 for this reason alone but I'm also tempted to say, so what if it's powerful some of the time?  A cost of 5 would also remove it from rainbow decks since they use at least bone wall, and often bone yard as well.  So which decks, exactly, would benefit from this card (assuming I increase the cost of the upgraded version to 5)? The ones that no one plays right now? Sounds good to me.

but I think the others are ok
Thank you ;) and thanks for the criticism.  I updated the cards to reflect my current view.

Offline jmizzle7

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Card Ideas by Uzra. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=410.msg4163#msg4163
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2009, 10:09:51 pm »

I think that Wormhole idea is quite overpowered, even if it commits you exclusively to time/aether. You could essentially run Aether mark and build a mono time deck with lots of card drawing, dropping aether drags and anything else you would want to play. I'm not saying that is the most effective way to use the card, it's just an example of one scenario in which Wormhole could be abused.

Uzra

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Card Ideas by Uzra. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=410.msg4164#msg4164
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2009, 10:09:51 pm »

I think that Wormhole idea is quite overpowered, even if it commits you exclusively to time/aether. You could essentially run Aether mark and build a mono time deck with lots of card drawing, dropping aether drags and anything else you would want to play. I'm not saying that is the most effective way to use the card, it's just an example of one scenario in which Wormhole could be abused.
It's a great idea, I'm sure the card could be abused even more.  That is, if by abused you mean exploited and used to it's full potential.  All decks try to use cards to the card's full potential. I'd go a step further and say, since the deck is time/aether, you can use Anubis + Ruby Dragons! 

What you want to show is that by using this card, in this way, the deck will be faster than current speed decks and/or be more immune to control than current speed decks.  Wait.. am I saying that it has to be less powerful than current decks?  Why should it be? 

All that aside, steal, explosion, quantum control, and pulverizer can all lock down such a deck.

But there are a ton of options and it would hopefully start several new decks that would be competitive with current competitive decks.  But that's the theme of all my cards. To fill in some gaps of decks that almost have potential and to start new arch types without being the new top deck. Rock paper scissors please.

Offline jmizzle7

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Card Ideas by Uzra. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=410.msg4165#msg4165
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2009, 10:09:51 pm »

I think that Wormhole idea is quite overpowered, even if it commits you exclusively to time/aether. You could essentially run Aether mark and build a mono time deck with lots of card drawing, dropping aether drags and anything else you would want to play. I'm not saying that is the most effective way to use the card, it's just an example of one scenario in which Wormhole could be abused.
It's a great idea, I'm sure the card could be abused even more.  That is, if by abused you mean exploited and used to it's full potential.  All decks try to use cards to the card's full potential. I'd go a step further and say, since the deck is time/aether, you can use Anubis + Ruby Dragons! 

What you want to show is that by using this card, in this way, the deck will be faster than current speed decks and/or be more immune to control than current speed decks.  Wait.. am I saying that it has to be less powerful than current decks?  Why should it be? 

All that aside, steal, explosion, quantum control, and pulverizer can all lock down such a deck.

But there are a ton of options and it would hopefully start several new decks that would be competitive with current competitive decks.  But that's the theme of all my cards. To fill in some gaps of decks that almost have potential and to start new arch types without being the new top deck. Rock paper scissors please.
That's pretty much what I was thinking of, uzra. Spamming drags and making them immortal is hilarious! Of course I'm not saying that the Wormhole card would be so overpowered that it would change the entire game *cough, Sundial*. But yes, that is a very good ability with pet deck potential.

Uzra

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Card Ideas by Uzra. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=410.msg4166#msg4166
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2009, 10:09:51 pm »

I added card pictures for 8 of the cards.  I'll add more later.  Thank you everyone who helped change the cards in some way in this topic or in others.

Scaredgirl

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Card Ideas by Uzra. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=410.msg4167#msg4167
« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2009, 10:09:51 pm »

Good ideas.

Couple of things mainly concerning realism and the theme of these cards:

Why does the character lose his other abilities when you use Sadism on him? Doesn't make sense to me. Does he go crazy and forget his other abilities? :)

Black Hole sounds very weak to me. If the opponent has no spells, it's basically only a Gravity Pillar. And even if he does have spells, I don't think that 1 quantum is a big deal. I liked the other Black Hole idea on that other thread better. The one where Black Hole kills all characters on the table. That sounds more like a Black Hole to me.

Why can you use Jetling twice in one turn? Seems a bit odd because all other permanents you can only use once. It would require more clicking and more programming. Why not just make it a bit more powerful with only one use each round?

The theme of Evolution bothers me. There is already "Evolve" ability in this game, where Graboid turns into a Shrieker. This is what I think evolution should do. This +2/+2 sounds more like a "Moral Boost", "Combat Training", or something like that.

Same thing with Furnace. Why does a "Furnace" increase the attacking power of your characters?

Flight is a bit weird. I would understand if this was MtG because there the ability to "flying" has a meaning. In this game it doesn't. What about characters who already HAVE flight? What if you give flight to a Firefly? His attack is doubled because he now has the awesome "double flying" ability? :) This card would do the exact same thing as"Dive", but only with a different name.

Why does "Infinity" make you exchange HP with opponent? Doesn't sound right to me. And why is it Time? Time is mostly about playing around card draws, rewind, stasis, things like that. I see this kind of thing as Darkness, like some voodoo s***. :)

But yeah good card ideas. I would like to see the theme tweaked a bit though with some of them.

Offline jmizzle7

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Card Ideas by Uzra. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=410.msg4596#msg4596
« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2009, 10:09:52 pm »

Black Hole sounds very weak to me. If the opponent has no spells, it's basically only a Gravity Pillar. And even if he does have spells, I don't think that 1 quantum is a big deal. I liked the other Black Hole idea on that other thread better. The one where Black Hole kills all characters on the table. That sounds more like a Black Hole to me.
The Black Hole card concept is an almost exact replica of a MtG card with the same effect of adding 1 to the cost of all spells. The problem lies in the definition of spell.

In MtG, 'spell' meant everything that was not a land. This included Enchantments, Artifacts, Creatures, Instants, and Sorceries. The big difference, and what supports Scaredgirl's claim, is that in Elements, a 'spell' is a type of card, meaning this would only affect the Instant or Sorcery type of cards, while having no effect on permanents or creatures. A minor tweaking in word selection would fix this problem.

Uzra

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Card Ideas by Uzra. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=410.msg4597#msg4597
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2009, 10:09:52 pm »

Good ideas.

Couple of things mainly concerning realism and the theme of these cards:

Why does the character lose his other abilities when you use Sadism on him? Doesn't make sense to me. Does he go crazy and forget his other abilities? :)
It might not be too realistic as a name but I'll argue a point on that in a moment.  The usefulness of the card is quite good.  As anyone who's fought miracle with fallen druids knows, the scavenger ability generally makes a creature grow extremely fast in the right circumstances.  The 'lose all other abilities' has three reasons for being there. #1) Since it's a useful ability putting it on a creature with growth or on a oty could be a lil overpowered sometimes.  #2) this can be used on your opponents mind flayer / fallen elf, oty, etc and in the right situation might save the game. #3) Have you ever used mutation and had a 2nd ability added to the target? I'm not sure the game can handle two ability names, which is why momentum and immaterial have a visual indication (as they do, sometimes, exist on a creature simultaneously with other abilities).  I find this reason lame, but there it is.

Now on to the realism for this card.  You might think that the creature becomes so obsessed with sadistic acts that he forgets to bath, eat, and even use his/her abilities.


Black Hole sounds very weak to me. If the opponent has no spells, it's basically only a Gravity Pillar. And even if he does have spells, I don't think that 1 quantum is a big deal. I liked the other Black Hole idea on that other thread better. The one where Black Hole kills all characters on the table. That sounds more like a Black Hole to me.


I can both change the name and the function. Name would be simple, quasar, but I wanted to save that for the upgraded version.  I was thinking that it would increase the cost of all non-tower/pillar cards, not just 'spells' (thanks for pointing that out jimizzle7).  I'll have to change that.  This card does indeed sound weak if you are imagining it in a traditional control deck or any speed deck, which of course it isn't meant to be in.  In the decks that would ever want it, the player would always have cards in hand, because his towers wouldn't last long.

However, it surely sounds like a black hole.  It produces gravity (black holes are the kings of gravity),  it requires gravity to play (black holes are formed as a result of gravity), and it makes cards cost more (in a black hole even light gains mass and needs more energy to move).


Why can you use Jetling twice in one turn? Seems a bit odd because all other permanents you can only use once. It would require more clicking and more programming. Why not just make it a bit more powerful with only one use each round?
This card started off that way, and you're right, I should go back.  2 darkness quantum: deal 2 damage to target creature or players and gain 2 life.

The theme of Evolution bothers me. There is already "Evolve" ability in this game, where Graboid turns into a Shrieker. This is what I think evolution should do. This +2/+2 sounds more like a "Moral Boost", "Combat Training", or something like that.
 

I don't mind this. I'll think on it.

Same thing with Furnace. Why does a "Furnace" increase the attacking power of your characters?
Firstly, it doesn't increase the attack power of your characters.  It's important to make a distinction because a creature with 3 attack does 5 damage.  A creature with 3 attack and dive does only 8 damage.  This is a static extra two damage whenever damage is deal from a source you control.  This would include direct spells.

One could argue that the furnace is extremely hot and you feed on this increasing your power and, through you, the power of your spells and creatures.  Perhaps if I changed the name to a proper noun, something like 'Fire King's Furnace' but shorter.

Flight is a bit weird. I would understand if this was MtG because there the ability to "flying" has a meaning. In this game it doesn't.
What is the point of this? Things that do not exist in a game can never exist in a game? Sorry, please explain.

What about characters who already HAVE flight? What if you give flight to a Firefly? His attack is doubled because he now has the awesome "double flying" ability? :)
Firefly's don't have flight.  Nor does any other character in the game currently.

This card would do the exact same thing as"Dive", but only with a different name.
True.  So are you saying I should call it dive?  This is a spell who's use is to deal damage to the opponent.  It would be treated as a direct damage spell, although not direct. A bit like some mono red players use Fahrenheit.

Why does "Infinity" make you exchange HP with opponent? Doesn't sound right to me. And why is it Time? Time is mostly about playing around card draws, rewind, stasis, things like that. I see this kind of thing as Darkness, like some voodoo s***. :)
Starting with the realism of the ability, you could think of the card's ability related to time in at least this way: "Let's trade places in space and time".  The name 'Infinity' might be off in relating that connection which I'll think on improving.  But as for the style that time cards generally have, I think it fits very well.


But yeah good card ideas. I would like to see the theme tweaked a bit though with some of them.
Thank you, and thanks for raising all these points.  Although I'll argue against them I'll still consider them for a while before I make a decision.

 

anything
blarg: