Poll

how should this card be changed

no changes, its perfectly fine how it is.
24 (49%)
add damage resist to the unupped, raise its cost, and give it semi PC protection with limited uses.
8 (16.3%)
add damage resistance to the unupped, raise its cost, and give it bonewall style PC resistance where bolts also remove counters.
4 (8.2%)
option 3 but also give it a way to restore counters
3 (6.1%)
something else that i will say in comments
7 (14.3%)
remove the card entirely because i hate it
1 (2%)
add dr and make it return rather than reflect spell damage
2 (4.1%)

Total Members Voted: 49

Poll

What sort of buff would make these shields competitive?

No buff; they're fine how they are
Reflect all spells; no balancing
Reflect all spells; remove protection from PA
Reflect all spells; remove damage reduction
Other - post below

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Offline Heric the Dark Lord

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Re: Reflective shield http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=19247.msg1003587#msg1003587
« Reply #144 on: September 29, 2012, 01:57:11 am »
I think it's powerful enough it doesn't need a buff or a berf. It's a cheap shield, that blocks a lot of different cards. Fire bolt, Ice bolt, Lightning, Drain Life, Nightmare, All cards with impressive uses, and last but not least, the oh so Well-known Psion. Helps against several types of decks.

If it really, desperately needs a buff, why has no one suggested that it reflect poison counters(But not the damage), too? Seems to fit Light, too.

Last note, I do not support the losing perma-resistance. Removes the entire point of the shield's ability to protect you from those spells and make your opponent come out and fight you with creatures.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2012, 01:59:42 am by Heric the Dark Lord »
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Offline jawdirk

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Re: Reflective shield http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=19247.msg1003840#msg1003840
« Reply #145 on: September 30, 2012, 01:17:06 am »
I think it's powerful enough it doesn't need a buff or a berf. It's a cheap shield, that blocks a lot of different cards. Fire bolt, Ice bolt, Lightning, Drain Life, Nightmare, All cards with impressive uses
None of these cards are efficient enough to warrant even a single card in your deck to stop them dealing damage to you. Also, they all have secondary uses so they can still be used against you if you play reflective shield. Also, you would be better off with sanctuary since none of them can deal damage per turn.
Quote
, and last but not least, the oh so Well-known Psion. Helps against several types of decks.
Lets be honest. 2-3 types of decks (SoW, psion, unstable gas?).

Quote
If it really, desperately needs a buff, why has no one suggested that it reflect poison counters(But not the damage), too? Seems to fit Light, too...
Last note, I do not support the losing perma-resistance. Removes the entire point of the shield's ability to protect you from those spells and make your opponent come out and fight you with creatures.
That's the problem with this card. It forces your opponent to come out and fight you with creatures, or weapons, or poison, or void, or decking you out. Because if he tries to kill you with fire bolt -- boy is he going to regret it. I like your idea about the poison counters, but as it stands this card either does absolutely nothing, or it completely destroys a fringe strategy. This thread is about making it do something against at least some of the dominant deck strategies, and making it not totally annihilate some rare strategies that are almost viable.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2012, 05:39:46 am by jawdirk »

Offline Heric the Dark Lord

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Re: Reflective shield http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=19247.msg1003898#msg1003898
« Reply #146 on: September 30, 2012, 05:30:38 am »
I see, now. Though Psion is still a popular card, and Aether is common. I don't support it losing perma-resistance, still. It means that once people realize it doesn't do that, but still reflects, burn decks will ALWAYS pack deflags/steals. Which, of course, means that it's a nerf, and a rather destructive one to an underpowered card at that. I think that it shouldn't do anything about creatures and their physical damage(Excluding the mirror shield with the -1 of course), but it should reflect poison, even if dealt by creature damage/effects or arsenic. I think that's all that's needed. Poison is rather popular in any deck that runs death, and more will likely raise the cost.
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Offline lightmage5

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Re: Reflective shield http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=19247.msg1018101#msg1018101
« Reply #147 on: November 27, 2012, 08:41:37 pm »
What about reducing its damage resistance from 1 to 0 for the upgraded version but it could then reflect ANY spell black hole, poisen etc.

Offline meowww

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Re: Reflective shield http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=19247.msg1018111#msg1018111
« Reply #148 on: November 27, 2012, 09:19:16 pm »
What about reducing its damage resistance from 1 to 0 for the upgraded version but it could then reflect ANY spell black hole, poisen etc.
Maybe at 6-8 :light, this could be happen.

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Re: [Official] Reflective shield | Mirror Shield http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=19247.msg1293863#msg1293863
« Reply #149 on: September 27, 2019, 08:27:42 am »
Spoiler for Buildup for my conclusion:
I have been thinking about the purpose of counter cards. Counter cards, as in, cards that mainly exist to counter a specific card or strategy, making them situational.

A few counter cards exist.
  • Reflective/Emerald Shield: Block and reflect spell damage.
  • Purify: Removes Poison and Sacrifice statuses.
  • Enchant Artifact: Prevents the destruction of important permanents.
  • And arguably any Creature/Permanent Control card, because they only work if the opponent has creatures/permanents.

Most of these have a redeeming feature though, which makes them usable even if there is nothing to counter.
  • Mirror/Emerald/Jade Shield provides undestructible damage reduction.
  • Purify can keep creatures healthy, which comboes well with Acceleration for example.
  • Creature Control can be strategically used on your own creatures, for example, to remove Antimatter or use it on Voodoo Dolls. Some can also be used on the opponent's HP directly.
  • And Permanent Control can be used on PPMs as a last resort.

However, I have two problems with these counter cards.
  • Sometimes counter cards are essential to the deck and decks are built around them. In these cases, multiple copies are included in the deck to increase the chance of drawing them early, but after drawing the first one, the remaining copies usually brick the hand. But if not enough copies are used, they might not be drawn before the game ends.
  • A few cards are useless if they are not used against the deck they should counter.

I could focus on any point that I listed, but let's focus on Reflective Shield now. Unupgraded Reflective Shield suffers from both of the problems that I listed just above. With these in mind, I came to the following conclusion:

What if Reflective Shield had an ability that made sure at least 1 copy of the card went to your starting hand?

It is really useless when included in a deck against a different deck that does not even deal spell damage. So when it is included against spell damage, at least let it consistently do the one job it was invented for.

Only 1 copy in the deck makes sure you draw it, and further copies do not brick your hand.
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Offline kaempfer13

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Re: [Official] Reflective shield | Mirror Shield http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=19247.msg1293879#msg1293879
« Reply #150 on: September 28, 2019, 03:10:51 pm »
Why would you ever put more than 1 in a deck then? it's indestructible after all. guaranteed damage reduction on the upgraded version could actually be really good too. Also means there is no excitement whatsoever in games where it actually matters. I'd rather it has a (positive) effect when replaced.
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