Poll

How should Emerald Shield be buffed?

This card does not need to be buffed.
16 (20%)
-1 to cost (to 4 :life)
39 (48.8%)
-2 to cost (to 3 :life)
18 (22.5%)
Other (please specify)
3 (3.8%)
-3 to cost (to 2 :life)
4 (5%)

Total Members Voted: 80

Poll

How should Jade Shield be buffed?

This card does not need to be buffed.
7 (9.1%)
-1 to cost (to 6 :life)
32 (41.6%)
-2 to cost (to 5 :life)
30 (39%)
Other (please specify)
3 (3.9%)
-3 to cost (to 4 :life)
5 (6.5%)

Total Members Voted: 77

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Offline Pyrodinium

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Re: Emerald Shield | Jade Shield http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=50101.msg1089572#msg1089572
« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2013, 02:52:52 PM »
:light is have more a defensive theme compared to  :life so I guess low cost shields are okay for the element.  :life on the other hand excels at summoning low cost critters and a low cost shield would unnecessarily power it up. Besides, it has fast healing spells and permanents to compensate for the slow defense anyways.

I think shaving one quanta off Emerald Shield is okay.

However, Jade Shield's cost should be kept as is, 2 defense is no laughing matter (think Serket). Its  :rainbow cousin Tower Shield, which has the same ability. costs 5 quanta to play. That expensive ability + reflect + immaterial justifies the 7 :life cost.

You can't compare a  :rainbow and a  :life card cost in 1-1. For better comparation:


it's shows that 2 reduction is not 5 :life, only 4 :life.



Immortality+1 shield+Reflection is only 2  :light. 1 damage reductionshould be 2 and the other abili... wait, does it free? So how that's justifies the high cost?

In this case, the Jade shield should cost 4  :life + 2   :life -> 6 :life (we taken out the 1 damage reduction from the Mirror shield as combining cost, but if we don't, -2 :life and add 1 for combine, so that's 5 :life ).

The unupped shield is nearly the same.

 2 for Reflective shield + 2 for 1 damage reduction (btw the normal shield is only costs 1 :rainbow ) and 1 for combining -> 5  :life

Yep, the way needs some refining.

I can compare whatever cards I like and so could you. :P

I considered the Titanium Shield as well but :earth theme encourages defense so a cheap but tough shield is normal for it.  :rainbow Tower Shield is the most neutral comparison that you can get.

My problem with Jade Shield is that it has three functions so I think an extra is warranted the :life cost.

As I said earlier, the theme should be considered too. :life is more focused on low cost offense (which you agreed) rather than (shield type) defense so it would just be fair that it has more expensive shields. If - :life gets a quanta for free for their froggies then where did that + :life quanta went to balance the element then?

Offline Klipsf4g

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Re: Emerald Shield | Jade Shield http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=50101.msg1090195#msg1090195
« Reply #13 on: August 01, 2013, 04:26:27 PM »
The thing that makes Emerald Shield and Reflective Shield unique is its spell-stopping power. (I don't consider the immortality unique because Enchant Artifact has the same effect.) However, this only applies to spell DAMAGE, and there is rarely good reason to attack anyone with spells, as they are more effective at stopping creatures to give you more time to get out creatures that will deal more damage, or will have a stronger effect on the field. Even the highest damaging spell can at 75(!) fire quanta only deal a measly 24 damage. Against players, you'd need 4 + something to finish (eg Fahrenheit in this case), and when you're doing arenas or lvl4s it's not going to cut it.

Then there are psions and Shard of Wisdom, which is the only spell damage strong enough to be considered a problem. However, these are still fairly rare, and putting in a card purely to counter an 'occasional' problem might slow your deck down and lower your winrate against other decks.

As such, the spell-damage-reflecting power is what is UP and deserves a rework; for example, for it to make you untargetable to enemy spellcasts. (Psions and SoW'd creatures could simply not attack as a slight nerf/balance.) Or for an (x) quanta cost, to make your creatures / a creature untargetable for 1 turn. Either way, this would obviously go with a lower damage block in the case of Emerald Shield and a higher quanta cost for Reflective Shield.

tl;dr right now, the only special jig about Emerald and Jade shield is the innate immortality, and the spellblock is often useless. Reducing cost would only change it into a Shield or Towershield with immunity to PC, which shouldn't be what these cards are about. The unique thing about these cards, the spellblock, does deserve a mechanics rework.

Offline Coolkid1

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Re: Emerald Shield | Jade Shield http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=50101.msg1097190#msg1097190
« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2013, 06:53:21 AM »
Intro stuff, body stuff.
Mirror Shield is considered balanced, and not considered a strong card. It costs 2 :light + 1 card + 1 upgrade. Emerald Shield, which has exactly the same effect, costs 5 :life + 1 card.
The rest.

the funny thing is that the rustler can make 4 :life quanta with 2 :light quanta... +1 :life and you get an emerald shield.   (theyre the same effect too...)
just putting that out there.
:life + 2  :light  ~~rustler~~>  5  :life

Offline CuCN

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Re: Emerald Shield | Jade Shield http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=50101.msg1097191#msg1097191
« Reply #15 on: September 15, 2013, 07:01:37 AM »
The rustler has a card cost as well: 1 :life + 1 card (not counting the 1 turn before it can use its ability).
2 :life + 2 :light + 1 card --> 5 :life

Offline Coolkid1

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Re: Emerald Shield | Jade Shield http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=50101.msg1098263#msg1098263
« Reply #16 on: September 20, 2013, 08:10:03 PM »
gahah. you got me there. the extra turn would be too much of a cost to me as it is with my generally minimalistic CC.

Offline Submachine

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Re: Emerald Shield | Jade Shield http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=50101.msg1098709#msg1098709
« Reply #17 on: September 23, 2013, 12:37:39 PM »
I noticed that for some reason Zanzarino finds immortality a good reason for a cost raise, and it is also true for this shield. I voted -2 cost on both card.
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Offline Robsta43

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Re: Emerald Shield | Jade Shield http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=50101.msg1098790#msg1098790
« Reply #18 on: September 23, 2013, 11:18:20 PM »
I feel the reason to take this shield is because of immortal and reflect, the 2 damage reduction is a rather common ability that can be found elsewhere much cheaper. 

Notice that every shield that has reflect also has immortal, this is to help alleviate the fact that reflect was, and still is, a very niche effect useful against a very few deck types.  Against these deck types it is amazing.  Thus the problem in the card's design. 

So my suggestion is that its versatility should be increased.  They could do any of the following (as well as what they did before) and not loose flavor. 

1) Reflect all abilities that effect you, not just spells (poison, venom, shard of void, etc).
or
2) Reflect spells that effect your hand or quanta pool (Black hole, nightmare)
or
3) Reflect spells that effect all of your creatures (fire storm, thunderstorm, Dry spell, plague).

EDIT: Note I would suggest doing this to both emerald/jade shield and to mirror shield.

Offline sathur

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Re: Emerald Shield | Jade Shield http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=50101.msg1099035#msg1099035
« Reply #19 on: September 25, 2013, 07:22:01 AM »
i voted 6 :life because it only raises the def by 1, but it also blocks any spell effects. so i think it should be the same as a diamond shield that blocks 3 but doesn't block spells.So take the 2 physical blocked and the ability of spell blocking and it's about equal.  ;D
« Last Edit: September 25, 2013, 07:30:10 AM by sathur »
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Offline furkannnO

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Re: Emerald Shield | Jade Shield http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=50101.msg1099048#msg1099048
« Reply #20 on: September 25, 2013, 12:12:07 PM »
I feel the reason to take this shield is because of immortal and reflect, the 2 damage reduction is a rather common ability that can be found elsewhere much cheaper. 

Notice that every shield that has reflect also has immortal, this is to help alleviate the fact that reflect was, and still is, a very niche effect useful against a very few deck types.  Against these deck types it is amazing.  Thus the problem in the card's design. 

So my suggestion is that its versatility should be increased.  They could do any of the following (as well as what they did before) and not loose flavor. 

1) Reflect all abilities that effect you, not just spells (poison, venom, shard of void, etc).
or
2) Reflect spells that effect your hand or quanta pool (Black hole, nightmare)
or
3) Reflect spells that effect all of your creatures (fire storm, thunderstorm, Dry spell, plague).

EDIT: Note I would suggest doing this to both emerald/jade shield and to mirror shield.
SoV is already quite a bit underpowered, why be able to reflect it?
Poison reflection would be overpowered?
BH-Nightmare reflect? how would that even work? if they use BH they lose quanta and heal you? and they'd heal you and fractal the creature for 1 darkness quanta? derp.
Dry spell hits every creature how would reflect even work, and thats the thing with group CCs: they are supposed to hit even through cloak/SoFree ETC

I do agree the shields could  each use -1 quanta cost
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Re: [Official] Emerald Shield | Jade Shield http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=50101.msg1227262#msg1227262
« Reply #21 on: March 13, 2016, 07:01:42 PM »
Necro-ing his because it doesn't make sense to duplicate the case.
(Btw, I find the balancing notes in the OP baffling, lol.)

I'm in full support it *at least* needs a -1 cost buff to both. The DR could be quite given that it is also Immaterial, but 5|7 is just too much for a 'just slightly' useful card. The Reflective property is far too niche to justify the high cost.
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