Forum Brawl #5 - Suggestions and Feedback

[CleanOnion]

I've pushed the timers for this round back two or three days already, I just forgot to mention. Sorry!

I completely understand your Expert Panel point. Writer, Artist and most Forum Expert tasks I feel capable of judging - Card Design and Deckbuilding less so. Luckily I have Zawadx to help me with this.

Community Vote is currently what we have, and those suggesting the expert panel should probably be active in that. However, I think the issue of the expert panel detracting from the community vote can be averted if the experts are still allowed to place votes, though that's just my opinion


Having done some maths I worked some things out.

On a round with 6 tasks and nothing else, each community voter can place 12 votes, two on each task. So let's say they have a voting power of 12, or 2 per task. Each team has 6 votes to allocate to each task. Because team voters have to vote for at least 2 submissions per task, each team can allocate a maximum of three points to a submission. Each team always has 6 votes per task, aka three times the voting power of a single community voter. There are six teams, and usually about five community voters. Therefore team votes currently account for about 70% of all votes ( (6*3-5)/6*3 = 72.22% ).

Ought this be adjusted such that community votes weigh more? And where would the expert panel for into this?

[RootRanger]

It's not even about "experts." I wouldn't care if they were completely inexperienced in the fields they're judging, as long as they are unbiased and read all of the submissions thoroughly. Personally I'm skeptical of the idea that some people are objectively better at making subjective decisions. But this is beside the point. Experts or judges, it makes no difference to me. We just need to implement this sort of system.

See, the real concern with letting team members vote is that the best strategy for winning the event is strategic voting. For instance, if your team is #2, you wouldn't want to vote for the #1 team if you're trying to win, regardless of how much you liked their submission. The system we have right now punished teams that are actually honest with their votes, and rewards the ones who vote strategically. Is this what we want? You might say that none of the teams are voting strategically (which I'd doubt), but even then, you would need to have a system that will still work in future Brawls.

There is the option of simply not letting participants vote, of course, but you run into the issue of not having enough voters. There's established psychology behind this - the idea that you don't feel the need to do something important if you expect somebody else to.

Thus, I'd have everything be decided by judges, which solves both of the aforementioned problems.

[Fippe94]

That is a good idea. Never really been a fan of teams voting. Judge voting has its own problem though imo, too few judges and it's not much of a good competition, it's just "what does the judge like?". I mean, sure, that is kinda what it *is*, but you need a somewhat sizeable judge to deal with this, say at least 5-6. It essentially becomes like public voting is now, except that you decide who to vote in advance, and "forces" them to vote every turn. Or did you have anything else in mind that sets it further apart from the public voting?

[andretimpa]

A pure judge vote creates the problem of allienating the rest of the community, maybe the best solution is to not allow participants to vote, have a certain number of people (the judges) commited to vote every round and still allow for the rest of the community to vote.

The main argument against this kind of thing has always been that the best judges are the most skilled in the roles, but these are also the best participants. But as Root pointed out not having a bias is more important than having skill. I also don't think it would be difficult finding people that are willing to commit a vote every round while at the same time not being interested in joining the event.

[Solaris]

Spoiler for Feedback not relevant to the ongoing discussion:

Please, don't have teams that can have variable teamsizes again. Manpower is HUGE in Brawl. If we're having issues with participation, either drop the fixed team size, or, dare I say it, change the event entirely. Controversial opinion, but feedback is feedback.

[JonathanCrazyJ]

Challenges Feedback:

Once you issue a Challenge, you should have no say on whether it is accepted or rejected.

The rules state:

"The challenged team may decline the challenge, in which case they forfeit 5 points."
NOWHERE does it say the challenging team can reject

"If the challengee does not make a submission, they will have been considered as declining."
again, JUST the chalengee

However, it is not specifically prohibited. It should be. If you issue a challenge, and are dumb enough to not do the task, and your opponent does, it should count as an accepted challenge that you lose.

If, in medieval times, you stood before a castle, and issued a challenge to the king. the king can accept or decline.
If the king comes down and you say "actually, err, no thanks" I'm pretty sure you get hung, or at least pelted with turnips.

It's not fair that we concentrated our time on two tasks that we get NOTHING for, when they were the sole reason we declined Chaosomes challenge for lack of time.

[majofa]

(..continuing from JCJ's statement)

Otherwise a team that's way behind could overload another team with a bunch of time-consuming challenges and then just not do any of them and then what?

[Solaris]

Hi, FHM representative here. I'd be fine with forfeiting the 8 points on each challenge submission that ceases to exist, and potentially having AB win the challenges that we didn't submit on. Allowing us to submit late should not be acceptable.

[Calambar]

I have a suggestion, Brawlmasters, don't you think voting phase for this HUGE round should be extended by 2 days to give people weekend for voting? There's only one community vote so far which sucks IMO.

[JonathanCrazyJ]

Aye i agree voting phase should be extended, there's so many things to vote on

[rob77dp]

Aye i agree voting phase should be extended, there's so many things to vote on

+1 from GP's DB here

[Zawadx]

I have a suggestion, Brawlmasters, don't you think voting phase for this HUGE round should be extended by 2 days to give people weekend for voting? There's only one community vote so far which sucks IMO.

Good idea.