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Offline CleanOnionTopic starter

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Brawl #5 Public Opinion Poll https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=61802.msg1231090#msg1231090
« on: April 18, 2016, 05:51:31 pm »
Brawl is finally over and I can finally sleep. But before I go into hibernation, here's a little poll for y'all to fill out. It's anonymous, though you can include your name if you want. I'll be publishing some stats and opinions once some responses are in.

http://goo.gl/forms/wd27oTQadC

Offline CleanOnionTopic starter

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Re: Brawl #5 Public Opinion Poll https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=61802.msg1231391#msg1231391
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2016, 11:26:41 pm »
Forum Brawl #5 has been archived and all of the team boards are now publicly visible to all!

Here are some stats from the poll:

Spoiler for Hidden:
21 people entered the poll! Of those, 14 gave their username.

18 were Brawlers, 1 did not participate, 1 was a Community Voter, and 1 was a Brawlmaster.
Spoiler for Hidden:

8 people rated Brawl 7/8.
2 people r8ed Brawl at a gr8 8/8, m8.
1 person rated it a 0. However, they didn't offer any opinions in the "type whatever you want" places, so I'm unsure why.
Spoiler for Hidden:

Card Design was the most popular type of task with 6 votes. This was followed by Artist and Writer with 3 votes each. Super Bonus and Brawl #4's Forum Expert were least popular with no votes.
Spoiler for Hidden:

"Do/make a thing according to the following criteria" was the most popular type of task with 9 votes. "Do anything" was least popular with 1 vote, as was expected.
Spoiler for Hidden:

The word question! In order of most-voted to least-voted, here are the words from the selection:
creative (19 votes), fun (17), teamwork (15), challenge (11), silly (6), social (6), winning (4), difficult (1)
Spoiler for Hidden:

The endgame meta question received mixed responses in roughly equal proportions across the board. One custom response involved the main role for a task acting as an advisory, and having someone else in the team do it.
Spoiler for Hidden:

Ah, our first written question: What one rule would you change?
Spoiler for Hidden:
Voting stuff, probably

Some shadiness that happened about challenges.

Team voting

Less challenges allowed.

Don't allow teams to vote

Revise the auction to a draft.

Submission validity. Any work not wholly your own, e.g tools used, source material, advice given-- should be listed. As long as they are listed, it should be a valid submission if you contributed any part to it. But the disclosure of 'stuff-I-didn't-actually-do' would be important.

Voting - we need something to encourage people to vote more, especially in later rounds when greater values are awarded!

Limit the amount of challenges a team can send so that every round it can send at most one challenge to each of the teams (R6 showed how broken the curernt system can be).

The element rule (Masters participating as bosses get their own element)

The winning icon must be the winner of the Bonus Task. The artist may improve upon it if all involved parties agree with the result.

Player trading is allowed.

This is a little more about not changing - I know I've never known any other voting system than the one used this time, but I would naturally tend to veer away from having an 'expert panel' (which I've heard about) who has significantly more say than the rest of the community. That kind of power, in my opinion, has too much potential for abuse and does not make up for the potential abuse of teams (or the whole community) voting tactically.

Have a Brawl Festival

No submission for any task will make your team lose 5 points.

League of Shadows wins every time.

What else would you change?
Spoiler for Hidden:
not much ok

Variable team sizes -> Static team sizes Yes

Introduce a voting panel instead, and still allowing non-participants to vote. Also make sure all rules are clear and specific at the start of the event. Also make double
tasks actually reward double points

Find some mostly agreeable way to utilize an expert panel for main voting purposes augmented or backed up by public opinion voting (if required participant voting can be mixed in here).

Voting definitely needs an overhaul. Not sure how-- no specifics besides what's on the feedback thread.

More Variety in the boss tasks. with 5 teammate roles and 6 rounds, the boss should be able to do each role once plus a second of one role (maybe a favorite?). I feel that there was too much writing/singing for bosses this brawl in my opinion. Oh, I can agree that Boss tasks weren't ideal. Apologies.

Separate the voting for combo tasks. Implement an actual expert panel so that we don't need to rely mostly on Brawler votes. Make the event 5 rounds long with the 2 last ones being longer (likewise, we'd have 2 bonuses and one super bonus). Move back to fixed size teams, but keeping the flexible roles. I'd rebalance the way scoring scales with the rounds (Brawl 4 was a sweet spot for that). Guarantee that we have substitutes since the auction (locking sign ups when we get the exact number of players prevents that).

Voting overhaul, but not at the expense of participation.

Preparing substitutes ahead of time, not having so many teams (only about 4-5 teams) This definitely makes sense.

All voting is done by a separate expert panel. Brawlmasters are not allowed to overestimate interest. The number of teams is set so that they can all fill every role. Teams are not required to fill every role.

[REDACTED] because this response is literally what I was planning on doing for Brawl 6. You know who you are. Tell no one.

More post-Brawl awards! ^^ ...oh, and if you can locate enough concepts and get Council to okay it, maybe 7 or 8 weeks instead of 6? It's just...it's been a really good experience, and I doubt I'm the only person out there whose heart isn't particularly in PvP. This I can agree with, and Rounds 5 and 6 were already extended this year. However, this Brawl in particular was rather stressful for certain players/teams and after a long period of time, interest can wane.

Have a Brawlassistant Isn't that my job already?

Any type of machine or code that you can use for your task is banned. Task must be your work.

What was the biggest issue this Brawl?
12 players voted inactivity, and both of the custom responses mentioned it, too. One of the customs also mentioned ambiguous rule wording, which was my fault.
Spoiler for Hidden:

Should plagiarism be tolerated?
10 players voted "No! Never." There were 7 custom responses and I'll list them below.
Spoiler for Hidden:


Put a note in submission, and let other teams decide

There always should be a clear reference to the art used.

People shouldn't copy/paste for an artist task. Brawl is about originality and creativity.

Allow an offending team, if judged by BM's to be an error and not maliciously enacted, to provide valid crediting to original source and if not possible then to replace with something else and give reduced point reward.

On a case by case basis. Example; GP art in R1 was ok due to many teams using similar taken ASCII art, but their art in R6 should not have been used as they never edited nor gave credit for it.

That depends on the role. For art and writer, definetly no. For others like the OT part of FE, that's normal. Other roles fall in grey areas imo.

yes, but ONLY if it is clear in the submission that it is not your work

How would you deal with inactivity?
9 people  and a custom response said "Hire substitutes". Fair enough.
Spoiler for Hidden:

Anything you'd like to add?
Almost all of the comments here were for appreciation.... thank you very much everyone!
Spoiler for Hidden:
No

The options for inactivity were... not good. You shouldn't penalize a team because one person decided they were going to go inactive. I have since added a Custom option to that question in the poll.

I loved to be the part of Brawl.

CO (and later rounds Zawadx as well) -- thank you so much for your effort to put on an event wherein it is likely you derived much less fun, if any at all, from your responsibility in it. All complaints aside, the overall operation of the event was acceptable and in my opinion better than my prior experiences. "you derived much less fun" - keep dreaming sunshine

Awesome work Onion, I look forward to many improvements towards the next Brawl!

onions have layers

This brawl was fun and amazing, don't feel bad, you did a good job Onion ♥ -Disco

Props to Onion for all the work you put in and carrying on after Nae had to step out. <3

Thank you very, very much, and see you next Brawl! (And after that, I've got my sights on Boss or BM for Brawl 7 if I can.)

The team should've been named Sky's Strawberry Shortcake Specialty, or SSSS, or 4S, or 4Kids, or PG-13 for short.

Non. C'est bien.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2016, 11:36:18 pm by CleanOnion »

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Re: Brawl #5 Public Opinion Poll https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=61802.msg1231392#msg1231392
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2016, 11:37:16 pm »
[00:33:52] JonathanCrazyJ [»] CleanOnion: you managed to basically solo-run one of the big-3 forum events, having never participated, with ZERO DRAMAS
[00:34:01] JonathanCrazyJ [»] CleanOnion: do you know how rare that is?

I just want to take a moment to say how great CO was. Seriously, he was the junior BM, left to run most of it solo, and totally bossed a very hard event to run.

Honorable mention to a great as always Zawadx

+rep
« Last Edit: April 21, 2016, 11:39:15 pm by JonathanCrazyJ »
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Re: Brawl #5 Public Opinion Poll https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=61802.msg1231393#msg1231393
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2016, 11:40:08 pm »
[00:33:52] JonathanCrazyJ [»] CleanOnion: you managed to basically solo-run one of the big-3 forum events, having never participated, with ZERO DRAMAS
[00:34:01] JonathanCrazyJ [»] CleanOnion: do you know how rare that is?

I just want to take a moment to say how great CO was. Seriously, he was the junior BM, left to run most of it solo, and totally bossed a very hard event to run.

Honorable mention to a great as always Zawadx

+rep

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Offline Solaris

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Re: Brawl #5 Public Opinion Poll https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=61802.msg1231396#msg1231396
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2016, 11:43:17 pm »
Despite some events that happened after the fact of Round 6, I was pleasantly surprised with Brawl. Nice work flying almost solo for 2/3rds of the event, Onion. It's admirable. While I wish I could've enjoyed the event more, inactivity tends to put a damper on things, as has been stated time and time again. Overall, enjoyable. Cheers to all :)

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Re: Brawl #5 Public Opinion Poll https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=61802.msg1231404#msg1231404
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2016, 01:18:03 am »
CO, you were one of the best staffers I've had an opportunity to work with. Your hard work and dedication is on the same level as CCC, the person who managed to make Trials 8 the best Trials ever through sheer hard work. Thanks for covering during my absence and working so hard I really didn't have to do anything. <3
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Re: Brawl #5 Public Opinion Poll https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=61802.msg1231406#msg1231406
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2016, 01:37:54 am »
Bonus suggestion: Brawl twice per year?
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Re: Brawl #5 Public Opinion Poll https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=61802.msg1231414#msg1231414
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2016, 04:34:45 am »
Bonus suggestion: Brawl twice per year?

That would require rearranging the War/Brawl/Trials cycle, so it's probably not going to happen.
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Re: Brawl #5 Public Opinion Poll https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=61802.msg1232141#msg1232141
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2016, 12:13:26 am »
I'm extremely proud of everyone who continued to enjoy the event, for Zawadx for stepping up in my absence, and for CleanOnion handling the event so well. I'm so sorry I wasn't able to be a part of it all.
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