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Offline Vangelios

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Re: Winner! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=58224.msg1188185#msg1188185
« Reply #48 on: April 29, 2015, 02:18:47 pm »
As the creator of Gravy Train Co.'s award icon, let it be known that I'm not upset whatsoever about the icon not being used.

However, considering that this thread is the only communication I've had regarding this decision, since ARTHANASIOS' private message to me telling me that my Brawl icon had won, I think the lack of transparency the Brawlmasters are showing is a wee bit dodgy.

I understand that a lot has been going on with the final votes and all, but a little bit of communication regarding things like this would have been much appreciated. I too was excited to see my icon used, as this was the impression given to us by the description of the Bonus task and Arth's message to me personally, and I was confused to see an unfamiliar icon underneath the Red Stars members' names.

Brawlmasters, please - you've done a great job hosting Brawl, but don't let it end on this note. Don't hide behind your "it's not in the Brawl rules" and have some respect for the participants. Our icon was selected as the winner through the voting process, and we want to know why the winning team was given a special opportunity to modify their submission long after the due date.

Icon Gravy Train Co was selected winner to receive 10 points instead 5 only this.
AGAIN : . It is a well-kept tradition to have Brawlers creating their own award icon!

If I use Gravy Co then I do not have my own icon, now if they want to continue the distortion then move on.

This special opportunity is not so special (reserved only to Red Stars) you can be sure that any team that wish same would be granted
if another team win the Brawl and have another icon I certainly do not do as some did here, even because if a team have the oportunity of creating their own icon award, Then should be fine with your icon, which I will not be with Gravy Co icon, sorry.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2015, 03:46:58 pm by Vangelios »
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Offline NaesalaTopic starter

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Re: Winner! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=58224.msg1188200#msg1188200
« Reply #49 on: April 29, 2015, 06:17:35 pm »
I think the lack of transparency the Brawlmasters are showing is a wee bit dodgy.

I understand that a lot has been going on with the final votes and all, but a little bit of communication regarding things like this would have been much appreciated.

Brawlmasters, please - you've done a great job hosting Brawl, but don't let it end on this note. Don't hide behind your "it's not in the Brawl rules" and have some respect for the participants. Our icon was selected as the winner through the voting process, and we want to know why the winning team was given a special opportunity to modify their submission long after the due date.
The fact that you think we are not showing respect is, in itself, disrespectful in my opinion. We have stated, multiple times now, that we are listening to input before making a final decision. Hearing things like "the brawlmasters are being dodgy" and "you're not being respectful" and "who cares what the rules said" does not make me feel like your side is correct in this matter, it makes you sound sore.

Icon Gravy Train Co was selected winner to receive 10 points instead 5 only this.
AGAIN : . It is a well-kept tradition to have Brawlers creating their own award icon!

If I use Gravy Co then I do not have my own icon, now if they want to continue the distortion then move on.

This special opportunity is not so special (reserved only to Red Stars) you can be sure that any team that wish same would be granted
if another team win the Brawl and have another icon I certainly do not do as some did here, even because if a team have the oportunity of creating their own icon award, Then should be fine with your icon, which I will not be with Gravy Co icon, sorry.
Vangelious, this is one spot where you are definitely in the wrong, perhaps because of unclear writing. By saying that Brawlers create their own icon, we meant that the Brawlers (as a whole) create the icon (for the event), as it has been in previous brawls, not the Brawlers (as teams) create an icon (for their team). You are correct though in that this was "not so special an opportunity". Had, say, frostbite borealis messaged us early on asking for a modified version of their icon if they'd won, they likely would have gotten the same answer, maybe at the time, and then a 'sure why not' at the end. If a team made a private special request of the brawlmasters, if it did not violate a rule as this has not, we may or may not have honored it. I'm surprised neither ARTH nor I got asked to be in the various teatime with giants newsletters, I figured a team would have requested that. Would it have been against the rules or an unfair advantage? No.

This is not a definitive answer, but at this time I am more inclined to let Red Stars keep their icon, as those opposed to it have not brought up substantial reasoning against it and have implied that the brawlmasters are being shady and dodgy, when we have not. If you would like to make a new rebuttle, please do so without being unnecessarily accusational.
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Offline ARTHANASIOS

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Re: Winner! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=58224.msg1188202#msg1188202
« Reply #50 on: April 29, 2015, 06:43:16 pm »
As the creator of Gravy Train Co.'s award icon, let it be known that I'm not upset whatsoever about the icon not being used.

However, considering that this thread is the only communication I've had regarding this decision, since ARTHANASIOS' private message to me telling me that my Brawl icon had won, I think the lack of transparency the Brawlmasters are showing is a wee bit dodgy.

I understand that a lot has been going on with the final votes and all, but a little bit of communication regarding things like this would have been much appreciated. I too was excited to see my icon used, as this was the impression given to us by the description of the Bonus task and Arth's message to me personally, and I was confused to see an unfamiliar icon underneath the Red Stars members' names.

Brawlmasters, please - you've done a great job hosting Brawl, but don't let it end on this note. Don't hide behind your "it's not in the Brawl rules" and have some respect for the participants. Our icon was selected as the winner through the voting process, and we want to know why the winning team was given a special opportunity to modify their submission long after the due date.

iirc, the "PM" you are talking about was a chat's private conversation and, iirc once again, I told you "it is not yet officially, but your team's icon had won". I meant that you had won the 5 points and the bonus task 1, but iirc I've never said that your icon was going to be used as the "Forum Brawl 4 Winner" icon. If I told you something more than that or anything that made you think it would be used as the award icon, I am really sorry and I never meant to cause such a confusion...
:-[
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Offline JonathanCrazyJ

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Re: Winner! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=58224.msg1188204#msg1188204
« Reply #51 on: April 29, 2015, 06:52:20 pm »
I totally agree that people should stop saying anything about any "shady deal", seriously, stop conspiracy theorizing. The explanation, given multiple times now, makes perfect sense and doesn't seem 'off' to me at all. The only thing that maybe could have been done better is clear it with the winning icon designer, but even that is a tiny detail.
Neither the brawlmasters, OR Red Stars, have done anything wrong. This is simply a discussion on whether a different course would be better.

Concentrate on why you think the icon designed in brawl should be the winning icon, and not the validity of the (very pretty) red stars-designed icon.

All that is happening is people getting pissed off about a tiny detail. I brought this up because i thought that, although a tiny detail, I really liked the idea of the icon, like in all previous brawls, coming from tasks with brawl. We were all expecting one thing, and another happened. This explains why people have gone from a reasoned debate (what I intended) to being accusatory (this has happened on both sides) The whole reason this has happened is because people's instant reaction is surprise. Surprise breeds stronger comments.

HAVING already said my thoughts, I would like to say that this IS a small thing. I think it's something important to discuss properly, but in the end it's not at all worth geting angry over. Please everyone stop accusing others of things. Nothing shady has happened, it's just an interpretation of what should be a happy moment for ALL brawl competitors: Seeing the prize we all worked so hard for being rightfully awarded.

Spoiler for a summary of my on-topic thoughts, spoilerd cos they probs don't matter :P
Spoiler for Hidden:
a) Tradition - if it has been done this way every year, the continuation is nice.

b) Authenticity - Brawl is about creativity in competitive design. Having an Icon come from a COMPETITIVE element of design is very authentic to the feel of brawl.

c) Expectation - We all expected one thing, and another has happened. We ALL thought that the icon we were trying to design would be the brawl icon. For some of us, this wasn't a minor deal, it was actually a huge incentive.
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Offline ARTHANASIOS

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Re: Winner! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=58224.msg1188206#msg1188206
« Reply #52 on: April 29, 2015, 07:29:06 pm »
If we looked at past Brawls, we can see 2 things:

1st: The icon was always being chosen by the Brawlmasters without any exceptions to this fact (no voting polls).

2nd: This Brawl, Bonus Task 1 was treated like any other Bonus Task; people voted for the winner instead of having Brawlmater's decision to auto-win.

I thought that this fact is enough to show that the F.Brawl#4 Bonus Task 1 is not like the previous BT1s of the previous Brawls but a normal Bonus Task instead, much like Bonus Tasks 2&3 of every Brawl, so it doesn't affect our decision of the award icon in any way.

But if you people think that you want to both vote for the winning icon of Bonus Task 1 AND having this icon as the "Forum Brawl #5 Winner" icon, you can post so at the Suggestions & Feedback topic.

Spoiler for Bonus Tasks of previous Brawls:



Winner's Forum Icon!
Each team may submit 1 entry to be the forum icon for winning this event. All team who submit an Icon by Round 6 will receive 3 bonus points. The Brawlmasters will select their favorite icon to be used. The winning icon get no additional points, but they do earn the pride of their icon being the best. Please keep in mind size and visibility of the icons when creating them.


Redesign the Winner's Forum Icon!

Odd round = Bonus task! Each bonus task lasts for 2 weeks!

Each team may submit 1 entry to be the forum icon for winning this event. The Brawlmasters will select their favorite icon to be used. Please limit the size to 32x32 px.
The winner of this bonus task will get additional 5 points!


Deadline: Round #2 deadline.

Redesign the Winner's Forum Icon!

Odd round = Bonus task! Each bonus task lasts for 2 weeks!

Each team may submit 1 entry to be the forum icon for winning this event. The Brawlmasters will select their favorite icon to be used. Please limit the size to 32x32 px. Each entry will be awarded 5 points.
The winner of this bonus task will get additional 5 points!


Deadline: Round #2 deadline.


Spoiler for Bonus Task of Brawl #4:

Bonus Task 1 (Round 1&2): Being Cliche Can Be Nice...
Redraw the Winner's Award Icon!

What the title says. It is a well-kept tradition to have Brawlers creating their own award icon! Size must be 32 x 32 pixels.

All teams who submit will receive 5 points. Winner will receive 5 points!

Deadline: Round #2 deadline.

« Last Edit: April 29, 2015, 07:31:41 pm by ARTHANASIOS »
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Offline iancudorinmarian

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Re: Winner! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=58224.msg1188207#msg1188207
« Reply #53 on: April 29, 2015, 07:32:31 pm »
Quote
[22:30:43] ‹Dm› Someone please post this in the "Winner!" thread
« Last Edit: April 29, 2015, 07:34:12 pm by iancudorinmarian »

Offline Physsion

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Re: Winner! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=58224.msg1188210#msg1188210
« Reply #54 on: April 29, 2015, 08:27:57 pm »
The fact that you think we are not showing respect is, in itself, disrespectful in my opinion. We have stated, multiple times now, that we are listening to input before making a final decision. Hearing things like "the brawlmasters are being dodgy" and "you're not being respectful" and "who cares what the rules said" does not make me feel like your side is correct in this matter, it makes you sound sore.
Sorry Naesala, I didn't mean for this message to sound aggressive, or like I was having a go at you. As I said, you two have done a great job with Brawl thus far.

My 'dodgy' comment was not directed at you or Arth personally, because I absolutely do not think this decision was made with any malicious intent. The comment was directed at the lack of communication we received regarding your decision, and was not meant as an insult in any way. I apologize if this is the way it sounded, as this was not how I meant it.

I'm not upset or angry with anyone at all, and I hope it's not coming across that way. I'm just looking for some closure. My team would have really appreciated some notification about this decision before it went ahead - for a team in a situation as poor as our own, as JCJ said, the fact that the winning icon would be used on the forums was a huge incentive for us to work on the task.

iirc, the "PM" you are talking about was a chat's private conversation and, iirc once again, I told you "it is not yet officially, but your team's icon had won". I meant that you had won the 5 points and the bonus task 1, but iirc I've never said that your icon was going to be used as the "Forum Brawl 4 Winner" icon. If I told you something more than that or anything that made you think it would be used as the award icon, I am really sorry and I never meant to cause such a confusion...
:-[
I understand, and I appreciate your apology. Thank you for this.

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Re: Winner! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=58224.msg1188212#msg1188212
« Reply #55 on: April 29, 2015, 09:08:29 pm »
And with that argument's conclusion: BINGO!

Doing a compare/contrast between the apparently inevitable arguments that sprout out each Brawl, I think the mildness of Brawl 4's arguments is a great sign. Can't wait till next year.
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Re: Winner! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=58224.msg1188271#msg1188271
« Reply #56 on: April 30, 2015, 03:28:32 am »
And with that argument's conclusion: BINGO!

Doing a compare/contrast between the apparently inevitable arguments that sprout out each Brawl, I think the mildness of Brawl 4's arguments is a great sign. Can't wait till next year.
OldTrees is potentially expressing sarcasm. Has the world ended? O.o

Event drama is a natural part of most events on this forum, but we seem to have some very tense reactions in more high-profile events lately. While lowering the amount of tension in discussions like these would be helpful, we should also mind that the competitive spirit of events like these will inevitably lead to arguments at some point. (Compare how scandals among popular athletes can cause negative reactions)

That being said, it would also be preferable if we were able to resolve conflicts like these without at least one side having to use emotionally heated words to get their point across to the other (potentially less attentive) side.

EDIT: I also think the following point remains:
Quote from: jonathancrazyj
Neither the brawlmasters, OR Red Stars, have done anything wrong. This is simply a discussion on whether a different course would be better.
Do the rules of the bonus task need to be changed/reworded/clarified to avoid a similar future misunderstanding?
« Last Edit: April 30, 2015, 03:53:36 am by Zblader »

Offline NaesalaTopic starter

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Re: Winner! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=58224.msg1188273#msg1188273
« Reply #57 on: April 30, 2015, 03:57:18 am »
Quote from: jonathancrazyj
Neither the brawlmasters, OR Red Stars, have done anything wrong. This is simply a discussion on whether a different course would be better.
Do the rules of the bonus task need to be changed/reworded/clarified to avoid a similar future misunderstanding?
For Brawl #5 we will try to be more clear with what the tasks are and are not, especially this particular bonus task which will most likely be in all future brawls.
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Re: Winner! https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=58224.msg1188286#msg1188286
« Reply #58 on: April 30, 2015, 12:05:45 pm »
Quote from: jonathancrazyj
Neither the brawlmasters, OR Red Stars, have done anything wrong. This is simply a discussion on whether a different course would be better.
Do the rules of the bonus task need to be changed/reworded/clarified to avoid a similar future misunderstanding?
For Brawl #5 we will try to be more clear with what the tasks are and are not, especially this particular bonus task which will most likely be in all future brawls.

Great




Also, I already know what I will/would propose for Brawl 5 icon 8)
The one with answerable questions and questionable answers


10th Elements Council member == Brawl #4 :life Meaning of Life :life Artist == Brawl #5 :chroma A Toadally Newtral Team :chroma Artist

 

anything
blarg: Khaleesi