Forum Brawl #4 - Suggestions and Feedback

[theelkspeaks]

Really, to anyone complaining. The system in Brawl 3 was the best one so far. The one in Brawl 2 was horrible mostly because of public wagers and the one from Brawl 1 (anonimous submissions) didn't work as intended.

Yeah, I agree we should continue with the Brawl 3 system.

[Chapuz]

Well what I proposed back then was like Brawl 3 but submitting in the secret sections too instead of by PMs for a better life of the BMs.

[OldTrees]

Yay! Brawl is back.   

The value of consistently placing +1 place is: 7/9/11/11/11 points.
The maximum difference in auction prices is: 10 (1 pt bid by a favored boss vs 10pt bid by another boss)
This difference means Brawl assumes that the average place for all brawlers in a role will be within 1 place.

I remain convinced that this math is suboptimal. Let's see what data we get from this Brawl to support or dash my doubt.

[Naesala]

Hey again OldTrees ^_^

Could you explain this math a little further? As we haven't entered auction yet, I'd like to understand what you mean. If we're over/under costing, we might change these values, as I hadn't realized this was an issue.

[OldTrees]

Hey again OldTrees ^_^

Could you explain this math a little further? As we haven't entered auction yet, I'd like to understand what you mean. If we're over/under costing, we might change these values, as I hadn't realized this was an issue.

I believe Auction underprices brawlers. However I am not suggesting changing them in Brawl 4. I to start a discussion about it early enough that people can make predictions* that can be tested by Brawl 4.

In both Brawl 2 and Brawl 3 where I did data analysis at the end, I noticed the point gap in the Card Designer role was greater than 2x the largest possible auction gap for the same role. This implies to me that a cost of 10 is underpricing the top Brawler in a role.

Brawl 2 stats
Brawl 3 stats

Now this is also a delicate issue since actual auction costs do not always correlate with actual points earned. Shout outs to Card Designers Anarook(who got 3 less points than me in Brawl 2 but cost 7 points less) and eljoemo(who got 1st place in Brawl 3 with 52 points and a 0 cost).

So I think it is time to discuss the working auction system and turn an eye towards how it can be made even better.


*My preliminar prediction is that the average point gap(from all 6 rounds but ignoring auction costs) in each role will be 21+(aka greater than twice the maximum auction gap)

[theelkspeaks]

If worst comes to worst and we don't have enough players, I know you have some great tasks planned out for all roles.  Maybe cut a role from belonging to any particular player, and instead have teams share that role's tasks among the whole team?  That way we'd have the least damage to the cool tasks you want to put into play.

[ARTHANASIOS]

If worst comes to worst and we don't have enough players, I know you have some great tasks planned out for all roles. Maybe cut a role from belonging to any particular player, and instead have teams share that role's tasks among the whole team? That way we'd have the least damage to the cool tasks you want to put into play.

Problem with your suggestion is that it can possibly ruin the functionality and co-operative feeling of our combo tasks...

 We have already prepared every task for every role for every round. Like you said, I wouldn't like to see the hard work Nae put into most tasks going to waste, but I still prefer dropping a team instead of a role. Brawl#3 had gone well with just 5 teams, so I don't find why Brawl#4 is going to suffer from that worst-case scenario.
 That said, it was a quite well-thought suggestion, Elk, and I would like to see Nae's opinion for it.
 Keep up any future suggestions coming, you guys!

[andretimpa]

I think you guys should aim for 5 teams next time (which would require adjusting points and stuff). Unfortunatelly there are not as many active people as it used to

[theelkspeaks]

Teams have 7 players.  Counting bosses, we're now at 27, so we're one away from 4 teams (cutting 2 teams and making their bosses regular players).  If we get 3 more players, we would be at 30 and have 5 teams of 6.  To get to 5 teams (35 total players), we'd need 8 more signups.  Just some math I was doing earlier today.

[Naesala]

Teams have 7 players.  Counting bosses, we're now at 27, so we're one away from 4 teams (cutting 2 teams and making their bosses regular players).  If we get 3 more players, we would be at 30 and have 5 teams of 6.  To get to 5 teams (35 total players), we'd need 8 more signups.  Just some math I was doing earlier today.

I do this math every Brawl ^_^ We'll see what happens when we get closer to the deadline. If there is no/almost no interest in a role, we -might- cut it, as has been the case before. We'd just prefer fewer teams to fewer roles.

[OldTrees]

In Brawl 4 we had interest in roles as follows:

Including only people with 3 roles stated

Card Design	Deck Build	Artist	Writer	Off Topic	Forum Expert
10	10	0	11	15	5

Including everyone that applied*

Card Design	Deck Build	Artist	Writer	Off Topic	Forum Expert
18	17	4	13	18	8

*counting Kakerlake's "yes" as everything, andretimpa's first 3/6 choices and ignoring eljoemo's "something else"

I notice there was less interest in Artist and Forum Expert in comparison to the other roles this time.

Now 1 population sample is not conclusive. However this difference might make it worthwhile to check the interest shown to the roles in earlier brawls. It also might be worth merging the Off Topic and Forum Expert roles in Brawl 5.

[Naesala]

Worth considering, I agree. Artist was actually even worse, with only 2 listing it until Kakerlake got put into it as an everything and Physsion agreed for the sake of the event. There is a lack of interested artists in the forums

Auction will begin after I talk to annele!