Poll

Artist Task

Team Darkness
9 (9.4%)
Team Entropony Cowboys
13 (13.5%)
Team The Crusaderps
28 (29.2%)
Team Fire
20 (20.8%)
Team Expensive Clocks
16 (16.7%)
Team Surf Ninjas
10 (10.4%)

Total Members Voted: 64

Voting closed: May 14, 2013, 01:52:30 am

Poll

Boss Task

Team Darkness
6 (7.1%)
Team Entropony Cowboys
13 (15.5%)
Team The Crusaderps
11 (13.1%)
Team Fire
15 (17.9%)
Team Expensive Clocks
25 (29.8%)
Team Surf Ninjas
14 (16.7%)

Total Members Voted: 58

Voting closed: May 14, 2013, 01:51:00 am

Poll

Card Designer Task

Team Darkness
12 (13.8%)
Team Entropony Cowboys
25 (28.7%)
Team The Crusaderps
10 (11.5%)
Team Fire
15 (17.2%)
Team Expensive Clocks
12 (13.8%)
Team Surf Ninjas
13 (14.9%)

Total Members Voted: 59

Voting closed: May 14, 2013, 01:51:54 am

Poll

Deckbuilder Task

Team Darkness
8 (9.8%)
Team Entropony Cowboys
16 (19.5%)
Team The Crusaderps
8 (9.8%)
Team Fire
17 (20.7%)
Team Expensive Clocks
15 (18.3%)
Team Surf Ninjas
18 (22%)

Total Members Voted: 59

Voting closed: May 14, 2013, 01:53:21 am

Poll

Forum Expert Task

Team Darkness
9 (11.8%)
Team Entropony Cowboys
11 (14.5%)
Team The Crusaderps
9 (11.8%)
Team Fire
16 (21.1%)
Team Expensive Clocks
15 (19.7%)
Team Surf Ninjas
16 (21.1%)

Total Members Voted: 53

Voting closed: May 14, 2013, 01:54:21 am

Poll

Off-Topicker Task

Team Darkness
12 (15.4%)
Team Entropony Cowboys
8 (10.3%)
Team The Crusaderps
10 (12.8%)
Team Fire
12 (15.4%)
Team Expensive Clocks
17 (21.8%)
Team Surf Ninjas
19 (24.4%)

Total Members Voted: 54

Voting closed: May 14, 2013, 01:55:40 am

Poll

Writer Task

Team Darkness
9 (12%)
Team Entropony Cowboys
18 (24%)
Team Fire
13 (17.3%)
Team Expensive Clocks
18 (24%)
Team Surf Ninjas
17 (22.7%)

Total Members Voted: 51

Voting closed: May 14, 2013, 01:56:24 am

*Author

Offline TheManuz

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Re: Brawl #2 - Round 1 [Voting Phase] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=49068.msg1067680#msg1067680
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2013, 09:24:24 am »
Artist Task Review

  :fire Team Fire
I absolutely love the concept, but it needs work. Don't get me wrong, it's executed pretty well, and there's no glaring major errors, but there's a bunch of small ones. Most striking is the lack of contrast, resulting in a lack of definition. I'm also not sure what's up with his neck area, but the flat shading means there's not a lot of dimension there. The other issues are mainly abut the fur - is it long fur stuck to the body? That's what the texture suggests, but the silhouette has tufts of short fur instead. All of the character could do with some more defined texture. The posing and character are awesome though - I really do love that!
Thanks for your review, i think it's really fair and it reflects somehow how i feel about this piece. I'm pretty happy with the result, though, since i worked on this piece only on saturday and sunday.
If it doesn't bother you, what would you do to increase the overall contrast? I think this is the majos issue in this piece and i need some hints/suggestions.
I usually draw with vectors and effects, the digital painting is a new thing for me, and i would like to learn something.
Thanks!


Offline Marsu

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Re: Brawl #2 - Round 1 [Voting Phase] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=49068.msg1067681#msg1067681
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2013, 09:26:51 am »
Wow. Will be quite some work if I want to be able to vote fairly. I am impressed overall, by the way.

Artist Task:

I'm not an expert here and will not try to hide that. I think I can agree with everything that vrt said, except that I also like the 'Wolf' art. So I had to decide between Wolf, Tornado, Living Weapon and Warthog.
While I really like the Wolf as a picture, I think it's less suited as an actual card art - there's so much going on, and no real center.
I love the Warthog, but it does somehow look like it simply misses something. This might have been my favourite art with a bit of additional work.
I will thus choose Living Weapon, as it is great, and Tornado, which is slightly boring in itself, but very well executed (which is better for a card art than the other way around).
Once again, only my personal opinion, I really don't know much about drawing.

Card Designer Task:

The Inevitable: The basic concept is interesting, but I see a problem there:
If it is supposed to be balanced, it can't be a free win against decks without PC.
If it is thus balanced against decks without PC, it is UP against any deck with PC for the following reason:
The PC doesn't even have to be played in most games and can be saved for other cards, because you will often be outrushed before the counter reaches 0. (See first sentence) In combination with the fact that you can't EA it (which is probably a good idea), it will be very hard to actually implement this card in a competitive deck.

Conquest: I think I love this. The basic concept is very creative.
However, the card stacks and EA is in-element, which makes one doubt its balance. It only takes over empty slots, but I don't think that's enough of a drawback.
Example: You play 2 or 3 EA'd Conquests, otherwise only stallish cards. Opponent gets out 6 creatures until all his other slots are taken over. Now you CC (RT even works too, hello EA'd Eternity?) one or a few creatures - all the now empty slots are instantly taken over when you end your turn, your opponent has no chance of playing new creatures. Repeat. Win.
Then again, the additional quanta & card slots needed for this combo might make it impossible to outstall a rush long enough.
It's more or less a guaranteed loss against untargetable creatures, but a free win against 95% of all stalls.
Aside from this rock-paper-scissor'ish part, I like this card.

Soul Eater: This is highly subjective, but I think this is just too complicated to fit in this game. As those ideas almost never make it into the game anyway, one could argue that it is more about the designing itself... but that's not my opinion, and as I may vote subjectively, this doesn't get on my shortlist.
This is definetly the most subjective decision I made while trying to judge these cards and can be seen in a different way.

Pandemic Worm: Interesting, but slightly too strong. A few Worms, Plate Armors, Aflatoxins, drawing power. Basically an OTK - and you only need 1 Pandemic Worm + 4 Aflatoxins + 2 Plate Armors (unupped, even). So only 7 cards for a guaranteed OTK that isn't even weak against +max HP. You'd need 40 Death Quantum, which is probably the biggest drawback, but that's still doable.
/e: You don't even need any Plate Armor when you have drawing power. Thanks to Paddoo for pointing it out to me.

Commune with Nature: Way op. Life mark, 6 Nova, 6 Photon, 6 Immo, 4 this, few SoB's & Precogs, few EA's, free win. Not to speak of its synergy with Life Marks (the card).

Glory of Atlantis: The wording is a bit strange, I would have prefered something like 'Enters game with 3 marks. Remove 1 mark ateoyt if you control >4 underwater creatures. Win if 0 marks.'
Otherwise, I really like this though. Actually in-element, synergy with an UP card. I also don't see an op abuse with it, although it might just be UP. It is also well executed, way better than, for example, a cost of 15 with an instant win effect.

So, These are my thoughts. I'm well aware of the fact that it's not only about balance. (For some people, it's probably not about balance at all) But if you try to balance cards, you often see that some ideas are impossible to include in the game, which is just one reason why I think it can't be ignored.
Especially as I feel like the balance of almost every card is a bit off in one or the other way (very very hard/impossible not to be though, in this challenge), I will mainly, albeit not only, judge based on the creativity of the basic concept.

The Inevitable, Conquest and Glory of Atlantis are the ones I like most. I will vote for Glory of Atlantis and Conquest.


Boss Task:

I wasn't a fan of the task itself, and I'm none of most submissions.
If I want to read the same politically correct crap over and over again, I visit my dentist and read the women's magazines in the waiting room.
I felt like Team Surf Ninja's submission is, albeit going in the same direction mentioned above, the most interesting one, as it focusses on the aspect of the (possible) non-universality of ethics, which is a difficult topic often kept under wraps. So, I voted (only) for Team Surf Ninja's submission.



Deckbuilder Task:

Darkness: Despite its simplicity quite accurate. Still, it obviously lacks thought and effort.

Entropony Cowboys: Much thought was put into this deck, it seems. I personally would have prefered a more metaphorical approach though.

The Crusaderps: Quite good.

Fire: A bit too simple in my humble opinion. I do like the explanation on how it was created though, and the fact that it was actually tested.

Expensive Clocks: Some cool approaches, for example the BW ('Fallen allies and opponents strengthen you').

Surf Ninjas: Interesting. I like the idea of that order! I think this could have been improved though, chosing the strongest card from the respective elements is a bit blunt Then again, it's hard to make it work anyway...

All in all, this one is quite tough for me. There is only one that's significantly worse than the others, and none that strikes me as an obvious winner... Will have to think a bit about this, or maybe not vote at all.

[rest to be edited]

Offline glennfoo

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Re: Brawl #2 - Round 1 [Voting Phase] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=49068.msg1067687#msg1067687
« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2013, 10:14:16 am »
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Offline OldTrees

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Re: Brawl #2 - Round 1 [Voting Phase] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=49068.msg1067744#msg1067744
« Reply #15 on: May 07, 2013, 02:15:38 pm »
Card Design of an Alternate Win Condition:
There are a few characteristics that mark good design for an alternate win condition an important on is that it needs to give the opponent a chance.
(Here is where certain submissions have problems)

The Inevitable requires the opponent to target permanents. Currently this is only PC and Protect Artifact.
Conquest requires the opponent to have PC or creatures.
Soul Eater requires the opponent to have quanta. (well I did design it with my own guidelines in mind)
Pandemic Worm can win before the end of their turn. Sanctuary allows the opponent to lose at the beginning of their turn instead. No in game counter.
Commune with Nature also has no in game counter. It wins on the turn after it plays Commune with Nature and Earthquake (or just use Life marks). Each Nightmare can delay this a turn.
Glory of Atlantis requires the opponent to either have PC or lots of CC.

Summary: Soul Eater, Conquest or Glory of Atlantis give opponents a reasonable chance (quanta, Creatures/PC or CC/PC respectively)

Sidenote: It is kinda nice that we didn't get any repeats in this event considering there are only so many categories of alt win.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2013, 02:30:52 pm by OldTrees »
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Offline Calindu

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Re: Brawl #2 - Round 1 [Voting Phase] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=49068.msg1067749#msg1067749
« Reply #16 on: May 07, 2013, 02:26:04 pm »
Conquest requires the opponent to have PC or creatures.

Keep in mind that to have this create an alternative win condition, you need to kill opponent's creatures or him to not play any.
Also, all the others submissions just go right to the win condition, while Conquest is the only one which can do more stuff w/o completely wasting quanta on creatures with low attack.
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Offline OldTrees

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Re: Brawl #2 - Round 1 [Voting Phase] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=49068.msg1067751#msg1067751
« Reply #17 on: May 07, 2013, 02:31:27 pm »
@Calindu
fixed
Thanks.
Changed my vote too since creatures are an easier counter than lots of CC.
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Offline Anarook

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Re: Brawl #2 - Round 1 [Voting Phase] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=49068.msg1067772#msg1067772
« Reply #18 on: May 07, 2013, 04:47:11 pm »
@Calindu
fixed
Thanks.
Changed my vote too since creatures are an easier counter than lots of CC.


Wait - I don't like the sound of that DX...
Sidenote: It is kinda nice that we didn't get any repeats in this event considering there are only so many categories of alt win.

You've no idea...
And there might've been a close call...
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Offline Acsabi44

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Re: Brawl #2 - Round 1 [Voting Phase] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=49068.msg1067779#msg1067779
« Reply #19 on: May 07, 2013, 05:12:52 pm »
Card Design of an Alternate Win Condition:
No offense, but you're judging the card design submissions while you're a card designer in a team? That's a bit... weird.
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Offline shadow303

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Re: Brawl #2 - Round 1 [Voting Phase] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=49068.msg1067783#msg1067783
« Reply #20 on: May 07, 2013, 05:20:31 pm »
Artist Task Review

First things first, I'm incredibly impressed by the overall quality of entries this round. great work!

  :darkness Team Darkness
I'm not sure what to make of this one, it's kind of all over the place as it is. I'm not sure why there's a Life mark on the moon, it's not really doing anything for the overall look. However, there's more issues bothering me about this piece. First off is the wolf's face.. It strikes me as 'derpy' for lack of a better word. There's not really a lot of definition to it, and the lack of depth makes a ferocious look into.. Well, Moon Moon. The lack of depth is possibly my main overall concern: Between different distances, the levels and saturation don't change. In example, the background wolves are just as pure black as the one right in the foreground, and that really hurts it when it comes to depth of field.
...
I strongly recommend everyone voting based on their own taste and perception of beauty. This is merely my own.

Thanks for your feedback.
I agree on the fact that there is no real reason for the mark in the moon, I just wanted to emphasize the mark to which the card belongs and found it looked interesting like this, but that's certainly a subjective point.
The issues regarding the lack of depth/distance in the scene is certainly something where I will think about and which gives me some important tips on where to improve. I must admit I've never drawn an entire scene like this with very near and very distant creatures/parts, but I somehow wanted to do it - even if it was a lot more work - for the competition. Probably drawing a single creature without detailed background would have been a better choice to workaround this, but on the other side at least I tried and learned something new :)

Wow. Will be quite some work if I want to be able to vote fairly. I am impressed overall, by the way.

Artist Task:

I'm not an expert here and will not try to hide that. I think I can agree with everything that vrt said, except that I also like the 'Wolf' art. So I had to decide between Wolf, Tornado, Living Weapon and Warthog.

Thanks a lot for your feedback too, I'm glad that you like my image! :)

Also my compliments to the other artists, there are some really great artworks within those!

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Re: Brawl #2 - Round 1 [Voting Phase] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=49068.msg1067795#msg1067795
« Reply #21 on: May 07, 2013, 05:41:31 pm »
Card Design of an Alternate Win Condition:
No offense, but you're judging the card design submissions while you're a card designer in a team? That's a bit... weird.

Why is it weird?
OT is the biggest name in CIA and his opinions are highly respected.
As far as I can tell - he was incredibly impartial in his evaluations and they were performed from an objective standpoint - then he gave his opinion based on that evaluation.
And don't tell me you don't look at other tasks in your section and go through the same thing mentally...
C'mon man =/
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Offline justaburd

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Re: Brawl #2 - Round 1 [Voting Phase] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=49068.msg1067805#msg1067805
« Reply #22 on: May 07, 2013, 06:06:53 pm »
I've noticed that there are submission that aren't spellchecked. Shame. (And I don't mean words that the spellchecker doesn't recognize too.)
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Offline Acsabi44

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Re: Brawl #2 - Round 1 [Voting Phase] https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=49068.msg1067809#msg1067809
« Reply #23 on: May 07, 2013, 06:15:35 pm »
Card Design of an Alternate Win Condition:
No offense, but you're judging the card design submissions while you're a card designer in a team? That's a bit... weird.

Why is it weird?
OT is the biggest name in CIA and his opinions are highly respected.
As far as I can tell - he was incredibly impartial in his evaluations and they were performed from an objective standpoint - then he gave his opinion based on that evaluation.
And don't tell me you don't look at other tasks in your section and go through the same thing mentally...
C'mon man =/
Oh, I do go through all the tasks mentally.
I say again, I have nothing against OT; it's just that it would be a bit weird to me to post my opinion about my fellow contestants. However I can totally accept if it is not weird to others
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anything
blarg: