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Other Topics => Forum Archive => Art Class => Topic started by: vrt on April 13, 2012, 01:23:07 am

Title: Lesson 5: Reboot
Post by: vrt on April 13, 2012, 01:23:07 am
Hey guys,

It's been a while since the Art Class has done any lessons, but we're back! Kamietsu is going to take pepokish' place as a teacher, so no more making fun of him (while he's looking). The Art Class is open to all, but remember, it's meant for progression and criticism, not purely praise. It can be pretty harsh, but don't let that discourage you - we really do want to help you get better!

Lesson 5: Assignment:

We're gonna take it a bit easy on you guys for this first one: We'll let you pick any card idea in the Armory or Forge, and create a piece for that. I'd strongly suggest making multiple quick sketches and posting them here for critique, so that Kami and myself can give you advice on it before you work your butt off on something that's fundamentally flawed. Of course, we hope to see progress shots throughout the entire process as well, so that we can help steer and teach. It's what we're trying to do here, after all! On a side note, here's a quick reminder of the rules (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,16970.0.html). :)

The focus of this lesson will be concept development: How well can you express what your piece is about? This lesson will run until the Art Class gets to see some more activity.
Title: Re: Lesson 5: Reboot
Post by: Kamietsu on April 13, 2012, 01:27:38 am
Now for a couple tips and hints to get you started on your way to some nicer pieces of art.


This list is incomplete, and will always be as there is never a lack of hints and tips you can have. Everyone is different and benefits from different things so be sure to check back for any additions.
Title: Re: Lesson 5: Reboot
Post by: vrt on April 20, 2012, 05:37:59 pm
Let's bump this into the "Recent Unread" section; I'd say zero entries is a rather low amount.
Title: Re: Lesson 5: Reboot
Post by: Tiko on April 20, 2012, 06:52:04 pm
Ok, so why haven't I seen this Topic as unread before.. ?

Anyway, I'm real glad you decided to give it another shot, maybe you can get me grab a pencil for the second time too :] *sigh* Too bad I don't have a scanner anymore..

Also, maybe the deadline could be extended a bit, until enough participants realize the topic exists. Come on people, show some spirit and start making those sketches!
Title: Re: Lesson 5: Reboot
Post by: vrt on April 20, 2012, 07:20:23 pm
Good point. Post edited.
Title: Re: Lesson 5: Reboot
Post by: vrt on April 24, 2012, 06:02:42 am
And we are now newspost-worthy! Go Art Class!
Title: Re: Lesson 5: Reboot
Post by: Dart on April 24, 2012, 06:19:52 am
I'm a little busy but ill try and whip out some sketches this upcoming weekend.

I'm looking forward to seeing everybody's art!

Title: Re: Lesson 5: Reboot
Post by: YoungSot on April 24, 2012, 01:53:05 pm
This interests me. Unfortunately I'm feeling pretty busy atm with War and Battle and Sideboard all vying for time when I'm online, but hopefully I'll find some time to participate at some point.
Title: Re: Lesson 5: Reboot
Post by: hailofink on April 25, 2012, 06:25:23 pm
Hi there, this is my first post in this forum. : )

So here is a sketch for the Demon/Devil http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,26614 (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,26614)
(http://img6.imagebanana.com/img/z36bop6a/thumb/demon4_small.jpg) (http://www.imagebanana.com/view/z36bop6a/demon4_small.jpg)

I just don't know if I'll continue and color/shade it.

Sorry for my mediocre English, I'm from Germany  :P
Title: Re: Lesson 5: Reboot
Post by: vrt on April 25, 2012, 07:28:16 pm
Hi there, this is my first post in this forum. : )

So here is a sketch for the Demon/Devil http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,26614 (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,26614)
(http://img6.imagebanana.com/img/z36bop6a/thumb/demon4_small.jpg) (http://www.imagebanana.com/view/z36bop6a/demon4_small.jpg)

I just don't know if I'll continue and color/shade it.

Sorry for my mediocre English, I'm from Germany  :P

Welcome to the forums, and welcome to Art Class! Glad you joined up and posted your first sketch.

There's a few things I can see that you might consider. The first is the overall style; it seems like it's a rough lineart piece. I'm not a fan of working with lineart much if at all, but for a sketch, it can work - but you've got to keep it loose. This is very rigid, very defined, and probably took you longer than it should've. Try and draw with a loose hand: quick strokes to indicate shapes, coming back to refine on a second pass, and finally making it into a whole only when you start finishing it up. I'd also strongly suggest drawing a basic skeleton and muscle structure before laying down any definitive shapes - take a look here (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,18798.0.html) for a better example.

For your next sketch, try and work with these three criteria:
 - No text. I know, I know, the contract makes the story-telling easier, but it looks awkward being there and won't be very understandable when it's a small image (ie ingame).
 - Use a skeleton to try and create a more dynamic pose.
 - Spend 15 minutes or less and don't use an eraser.

If I sound harsh; remember, I really just want to try and help you get better. I think it's great to see someone is actually trying, for one! :D
Title: Re: Lesson 5: Reboot
Post by: hailofink on April 25, 2012, 10:45:05 pm
First of all, thank you!
I tried to follow some of your advice and made a sketch in about 30 minutes (i know i'm too slow : P ).
So here is the result:
(http://img7.imagebanana.com/img/70jtn3ml/thumb/demonb2.jpg) (http://www.imagebanana.com/view/70jtn3ml/demonb2.jpg)

This sketch didn't took me as long as the first one, but I'm not really satisfied with the result either.
It isn't a sketch at all...
I really have to learn to concentrate on the basic shapes etc. instead of going to much into detail (at least for quick sketches).

I think I'll add some details, change the skull/background and finish the picture now, because this is pretty half-assed (am i allowed to use words like this? :P).

Btw: is there a way to embed the pictures directly without the thumbnail? Couldn't find such an option.


Title: Re: Lesson 5: Reboot
Post by: vrt on April 25, 2012, 10:52:24 pm
I think the problem is you wanted to do too much too quickly, indeed.

Focus on the basics - anatomy and image balance. It's leaning to the left pretty hard. The proportions on most of him are off by quite a bit, as well. But what I think bothers me most, is how he just looks like a human with a helmet. It's a demon we're talking, a being of a place that has driven fear into people for thousands of years - let it show! Make something grotesque and fearful, make it downright scary!
Title: Re: Lesson 5: Reboot
Post by: Dandy on April 25, 2012, 10:57:51 pm
I'd love to try and get involved with this, even though the best art that I can do mostly consists of stick figures. (I'd do it mostly to see if I can improve myself, rather than think of them as viable card art...unless of course, "stick figure" becomes a card)

Unfortunately, I'm a bit busy now, as it's the end of my semester, which means finals. When I have more free time, would I be able to crash a later lesson?
Title: Re: Lesson 5: Reboot
Post by: vrt on April 26, 2012, 02:25:11 am
I'd love to try and get involved with this, even though the best art that I can do mostly consists of stick figures. (I'd do it mostly to see if I can improve myself, rather than think of them as viable card art...unless of course, "stick figure" becomes a card)

Unfortunately, I'm a bit busy now, as it's the end of my semester, which means finals. When I have more free time, would I be able to crash a later lesson?

Definitely.
Title: Re: Lesson 5: Reboot
Post by: Dandy on April 26, 2012, 02:54:56 am
Awesome! Thanks muchly! Can't wait to share my doodles with the elements community!
Title: Re: Lesson 5: Reboot
Post by: Drake_XIV on April 27, 2012, 01:33:31 am
Would it be fine if I submitted a sketch for one my ideas still in the Smithy instead?  Just an inquiry...
Title: Re: Lesson 5: Reboot
Post by: vrt on April 27, 2012, 02:32:16 am
Would it be fine if I submitted a sketch for one my ideas still in the Smithy instead?  Just an inquiry...

Prefer not, but eh.
Title: Re: Lesson 5: Reboot
Post by: Drake_XIV on April 28, 2012, 10:20:58 am
Would it be fine if I submitted a sketch for one my ideas still in the Smithy instead?  Just an inquiry...

Prefer not, but eh.

Sorry about this then...

The idea I'm drawing for is: Twilit Tyrant | Twilit Tyrant (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,37865.html).

I may have spent a lot of time looking at past art lessons though...

(http://i.imgur.com/URA6T.png)
Mostly to just to figure the body positioning and whatnot.  Hopefully the limb lengths aren't too off...
(http://i.imgur.com/0rBdW.png)
Just fleshing out the body.  Scrapped the claymore for a giant axe.
(http://i.imgur.com/bEMRE.png)
Tried adding on armour.  Axe is being temporarily removed.  Can't help but feel something is off with the arms...
(http://i.imgur.com/gsmWQ.png)
Attempted at toning the figure out.

Hopefully the end result will come out much darker, but I still feel I'm a good distance away from that...

Unfortunately, I'm stuck with sketching things out on gIMP with a mouse.
Title: Re: Lesson 5: Reboot
Post by: Shrink on April 29, 2012, 11:20:58 am
Alright so I'm finally here >.>

I decided to use the card Wyvern | Elite Wyvern (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,11054) by Hyroen.
I chose this card to do some art because I liked the card itself. I wanted to give it art that presses further dimensions than the art it has now.
It would be nice at the end of this to have a visually impressive piece causing eyegasms everywhere.

Anyways...

Apologies for meh sketch, but I only had around 20 minutes to work:

(http://i.imgur.com/cr7cS.jpg)
Title: Re: Lesson 5: Reboot
Post by: The_Mormegil on April 29, 2012, 01:55:20 pm
Hmmm... More skills is always welcome and learning to draw might help me in some projects. However. I have no scanner nor graphic tablet or anything. Is it a possibility to be able to draw decently directly on the PC, or as I always thought it is pretty much impossible to get any kind of results without using paper and pencil (or other similarly non-digital tools)?
Title: Re: Lesson 5: Reboot
Post by: agentflare on April 29, 2012, 02:29:38 pm
Signing up.
*I suck at art*
Title: Re: Lesson 5: Reboot
Post by: Jocko on April 29, 2012, 02:48:13 pm
*placeholder 'till i get some time*
Title: Re: Lesson 5: Reboot
Post by: vrt on April 29, 2012, 05:46:40 pm
Would it be fine if I submitted a sketch for one my ideas still in the Smithy instead?  Just an inquiry...

Prefer not, but eh.

Sorry about this then...

The idea I'm drawing for is: Twilit Tyrant | Twilit Tyrant (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,37865.html).

I may have spent a lot of time looking at past art lessons though...

(http://i.imgur.com/URA6T.png)
Mostly to just to figure the body positioning and whatnot.  Hopefully the limb lengths aren't too off...
(http://i.imgur.com/0rBdW.png)
Just fleshing out the body.  Scrapped the claymore for a giant axe.
(http://i.imgur.com/bEMRE.png)
Tried adding on armour.  Axe is being temporarily removed.  Can't help but feel something is off with the arms...
(http://i.imgur.com/gsmWQ.png)
Attempted at toning the figure out.

Hopefully the end result will come out much darker, but I still feel I'm a good distance away from that...

Unfortunately, I'm stuck with sketching things out on gIMP with a mouse.

Try using a pencil and paper instead. I can tell very little from this about your work process, and what I can see is rather bland. Really try and focus on convincing a dynamic pose and a realistic anatomy.. also, no humans in Elements. ;)

Alright so I'm finally here >.>

I decided to use the card Wyvern | Elite Wyvern (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,11054) by Hyroen.
I chose this card to do some art because I liked the card itself. I wanted to give it art that presses further dimensions than the art it has now.
It would be nice at the end of this to have a visually impressive piece causing eyegasms everywhere.

Anyways...

Apologies for meh sketch, but I only had around 20 minutes to work:

(http://i.imgur.com/cr7cS.jpg)[/img]
It's a good start, but I'd like to point out a few mistakes. The most striking one you'll want to look at is the perspective issues with his chest; it's angled as if it's on a different plane from the rest of his body. The wings don't make much sense to me; they look like they'd just be flappy streamers if he'd take flight. Finally, the size of the arms looks to be a little off. A challenge for your next sketch: Draw the wyvern as if it's taking flight just at the moment you 'snapped' it.

*placeholder 'till i get some time*
I won't go back through the topic, better to just make a post when you've got something. :)

Hmmm... More skills is always welcome and learning to draw might help me in some projects. However. I have no scanner nor graphic tablet or anything. Is it a possibility to be able to draw decently directly on the PC, or as I always thought it is pretty much impossible to get any kind of results without using paper and pencil (or other similarly non-digital tools)?

It's possible, but you'll waste half your life on any single piece. For the purpose of sketching, pencil and paper and a camera will do.
Title: Re: Lesson 5: Reboot
Post by: The_Mormegil on April 29, 2012, 05:53:33 pm
It's possible, but you'll waste half your life on any single piece. For the purpose of sketching, pencil and paper and a camera will do.
Camera! I do own a smartphone...
Title: Re: Lesson 5: Reboot
Post by: Drake_XIV on April 29, 2012, 08:29:39 pm
Try using a pencil and paper instead. I can tell very little from this about your work process, and what I can see is rather bland. Really try and focus on convincing a dynamic pose and a realistic anatomy.. also, no humans in Elements. ;)

I guess I should go back to pencil and paper.  But regardless of medium, the lack of action seems to an issue that I have with my pictures.  Any tips on that?

And it's not necessarily a human, per se.  Maybe humanoid, but I was planning to make him seem more demonic when I added facial details.  But I guess I should emphasize that though...
Title: Re: Lesson 5: Reboot
Post by: vrt on April 29, 2012, 08:54:02 pm
Try using a pencil and paper instead. I can tell very little from this about your work process, and what I can see is rather bland. Really try and focus on convincing a dynamic pose and a realistic anatomy.. also, no humans in Elements. ;)

I guess I should go back to pencil and paper.  But regardless of medium, the lack of action seems to an issue that I have with my pictures.  Any tips on that?

And it's not necessarily a human, per se.  Maybe humanoid, but I was planning to make him seem more demonic when I added facial details.  But I guess I should emphasize that though...

Exaggerate everything. Best way to get stuff dynamic.
Title: Re: Lesson 5: Reboot
Post by: The_Mormegil on April 30, 2012, 10:16:52 am
Here goes nothing. Or rather, ten minutes of my life.
(http://i.imgur.com/PoMjQ.jpg)
Title: Re: Lesson 5: Reboot
Post by: Arum on May 03, 2012, 03:29:58 am
I randomly sketched this for ZBlader.
http://i.imgur.com/2dOYb.jpg
Quick sketch made in 5-10 minutes, maybe will fill in details and color later.

Feedback?

EDIT: WAY TO LARGE. Changed to link.
Title: Re: Lesson 5: Reboot
Post by: Jocko on May 03, 2012, 08:00:40 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/Uoiah.png)
Is it too big? Color is in there just to make the idea clearer. If i drew a worm in front of some black sticks, it wouldn't make sense ^^
Btw its Mana Larva | Worm http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,15279.0.html
Title: Re: Lesson 5: Reboot
Post by: Drake_XIV on May 17, 2012, 02:06:36 am
Decided to try something else for Lesson 5.

My take on Eldritch Horror | Avatar of Prejudice (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,35877.0.html).  Pencil Sketch.

(http://i.imgur.com/liBOi.png)

I do believe that there is some explanation needed on my part.  The definition of an eldritch horror, or as I come to believe it to be, is something big and grotesque.  The "crown" at the top is actually a gaping mouth with only the large teeth visible.  I was planning to add serrations and spittle to emphasize that later.  The bulk of the body will coated with large shrunken heads with hollow eye sockets and gaping mouths.  This will then lead down to the slew of tentacles that protrude from this creature's posterior.
Title: Re: Lesson 5: Reboot
Post by: Kamietsu on May 18, 2012, 08:00:27 pm
Here goes nothing. Or rather, ten minutes of my life.
(http://i.imgur.com/PoMjQ.jpg)

It looks pretty nice, but some of the proportions seem a it skewed and unfitting for the type of creature it seems to be. It has a nice strong upper body but is lacking a lot of leg power to help move his large frame around. Good sketchwork.

I randomly sketched this for ZBlader.
http://i.imgur.com/2dOYb.jpg
Quick sketch made in 5-10 minutes, maybe will fill in details and color later.

Feedback?

EDIT: WAY TO LARGE. Changed to link.

You've got the basic sketch down but it feels rather lacking in almost any detail. I'd suggest adding more to it to give it more of a foundation to work upon.

(http://i.imgur.com/Uoiah.png)
Is it too big? Color is in there just to make the idea clearer. If i drew a worm in front of some black sticks, it wouldn't make sense ^^
Btw its Mana Larva | Worm http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,15279.0.html

I'm liking the beginning of it. It's a nice rough sketch with a good idea ready to be worked more upon. The base scale of things seem a bit strange, unless the worm is suppose to be rather large. If not, I'd suggest making the tower a bit more tower like in size.

Decided to try something else for Lesson 5.

My take on Eldritch Horror | Avatar of Prejudice (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,35877.0.html).  Pencil Sketch.

(http://i.imgur.com/liBOi.png)

I do believe that there is some explanation needed on my part.  The definition of an eldritch horror, or as I come to believe it to be, is something big and grotesque.  The "crown" at the top is actually a gaping mouth with only the large teeth visible.  I was planning to add serrations and spittle to emphasize that later.  The bulk of the body will coated with large shrunken heads with hollow eye sockets and gaping mouths.  This will then lead down to the slew of tentacles that protrude from this creature's posterior.

I like that you have an idea in your head to make it more detailed as you work on it. As for a sketch, it seems a bit too finalized. Too much of a sharp contrast to the lines. I feel like you drew over the sketch t make things stand out more. Everyone works differently and I don't see anything wrong with it. Clearly you have a nice foundation to work upon. I'd suggest maybe adding some lightly drawn block segments to help show the different parts. Like the place between the gaping mouth and the skull head body a little more obvious so it is more clear that are two different segments.
Title: Re: Lesson 5: Reboot
Post by: Jocko on May 18, 2012, 10:33:18 pm
I don't know how big a space worm should be, i'll reduce its size later, but in my concept it was kinda big.
Title: Re: Lesson 5: Reboot
Post by: Shrink on May 19, 2012, 01:52:55 am
(http://i.imgur.com/5LxWQ.jpg)

I'm having a lot of trouble with your assignment. To be completely honest, I am terrible at starting a piece. I'm not really sure what defines a proper sketch, so I do tons of work and if I hate it, I scrap everything.

I don't know what to do with the wings (they look flat) and I'm having trouble deciding how to approach to tail to give this wyvern more movement.
Title: Re: Lesson 5: Reboot
Post by: Drake_XIV on May 19, 2012, 02:05:54 am
I like that you have an idea in your head to make it more detailed as you work on it. As for a sketch, it seems a bit too finalized. Too much of a sharp contrast to the lines. I feel like you drew over the sketch t make things stand out more. Everyone works differently and I don't see anything wrong with it. Clearly you have a nice foundation to work upon. I'd suggest maybe adding some lightly drawn block segments to help show the different parts. Like the place between the gaping mouth and the skull head body a little more obvious so it is more clear that are two different segments.

I'm sorry, but "Block Segments?"  Can you enlighten me as to what you mean by that?
Title: Re: Lesson 5: Reboot
Post by: Krava on July 21, 2012, 09:56:29 am
Ooo, nice! i didn't notice revival since i've been away...

Ill post something although ill be soon on vacation...
Title: Re: Lesson 5: Reboot
Post by: juan_de_diablo on July 23, 2012, 12:17:32 pm
Although I tend to shy away from going to classes  :P, I figured I might see what kind of feedback I could get to improve my process.

Here's a snail I started earlier:

(http://i.imgur.com/wyDB5.jpg)

Although I already posted the beginning pic, is it better to post as I go along, or post all the pieces up to the final product?
Title: Re: Lesson 5: Reboot
Post by: iskelion on November 06, 2013, 06:33:04 pm
does this work as a class or more like a constructive criticism den?
blarg: