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Other Topics => Forum Archive => Art Class => Topic started by: pepokish on January 28, 2011, 11:08:57 am

Title: Lesson 4: Using a Reference
Post by: pepokish on January 28, 2011, 11:08:57 am
Let's get started with lesson 4!

One key to success as an artist is to learn how to use references.  It's a common misconception that all artists -- good or bad -- draw using nothing more than their vivid imaginations.  While I'm sure that there are certainly some exceptions, the vast majority of excelling artists utilize the world around them in order to learn how to draw things.

A lot of people also swear by the fact that you cannot learn from photographs, and can only learn to draw by drawing from live models of your subject.  This, I believe, is just plainly not true.  The key to drawing from photographs is to have a lot of different angles of the same subject in order to gather a sense of how that subject is, rather than copying one single photo like a living xerox machine.

For this lesson, we will be working on learning to draw with references.  Later, we'll learn how to apply this knowledge to making creations from your imagination.  (:
Your Task:

1. Gather reference images of Crocodiles.  Make sure to gather a variety of angles and poses.

2. Quickly draw out 3-4 small sketches (5 minutes or less per each sketch), and post them here. 

3. After you have received feedback from vrt or myself, choose the mini-sketch you like best, and continue refining that sketch into a fully-completed image!

Don't forget -- vrt and I would really appreciate it if you could hold off on posting any updates or moving on in the assignment before we have come around to give you feedback.  This makes it a lot easier on us, and it makes it easier for you to correct mistakes early on, before it's too late.

Good luck, everyone!  :3
Title: Re: Lesson 4: Using a Reference
Post by: pepokish on January 28, 2011, 11:09:09 am
Below, you can see an example I made up very quickly, along with the references I used.  This is my typical way of making artwork -- first, a quick and messy lineart sketch, followed by speed painting.  Of course, in this lesson, you're free to work in whatever way you're comfortable doing so.  C:

(http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/7452/referencel.jpg)

My references: One (http://images.wildmadagascar.org/pictures/berenty/nile_crocodile_0081.jpg) - Two (http://www.foxnews.com/images/242238/0_61_061127_nile_crocodile.jpg) - Three (http://www.animaldanger.com/images/crocodile.jpg)
1. Basic Shapes: As covered in the last two lessons, the first step was to define the basic shapes of the skeleton.  This was done, for the most part, off the top of my head after looking through so many images of crocodiles.  You will make 3-4 of these.  (:

2. Sketch Details: After laying down the basic shapes I went back to look over my references and started outlining a few of the details I noticed in the photographs -- the large bumps on the back of the crocodile, the snout shape, etc.

3. Tones: With a new layer set to multiply, I set down some basic shading.  This can be done in colour or black and white.  Starting immediately from colour is very difficult, but it's also not easy to add colour in later on down the way.  Personally, I choose to use greyscale until I feel comfortable enough with the form to start introducing colour -- but that's merely personal preference.

4. Blending: After that, another new layer (normal) where I used a med-high opacity brush to begin working the rough shading together and forming details.

5. Details:  As you can tell, I didn't finish the image -- we end as I just begin adding in details and refining everything.  The secret is to use fairly large brushes as you start out with shading, and use progressively smaller brushes as you get into detailing.


Now, I'd like once again to wish everyone luck with this assignment!  Looking forward to seeing everyone's sketches and drawings!  C:
Title: Re: Lesson 4: Using a Reference
Post by: Krahhl on January 28, 2011, 09:20:22 pm
(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd131941/nilecroc1.jpg)(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd131940/nilecroc2.jpg)(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd131939/nilecroc3.jpg)
Title: Re: Lesson 4: Using a Reference
Post by: ArtCrusade on January 28, 2011, 10:02:14 pm
ref1 (http://fotowettbewerb.hispeed.ch/original/371564/nile_crocodile/nature_afrika_crocodile_krokodil_reptile_reptiel.jpg) - ref2 (http://fotowettbewerb.hispeed.ch/original/215647/krokodil/krokodil.jpg) - ref3 (http://www.rotholl.at/fotos/12452/big/krokodil.jpg)

(http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/7701/doodle1.png)
(http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/1034/doodle2.png)
(http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/6544/doodle3.png)
(http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/4263/doodle4h.png)
EDIT: Damn it. everyone's posting fully developed sketches and I only made some doodles. Am I supposed to do the same or what?
Title: Re: Lesson 4: Using a Reference
Post by: wizelsnarf on January 30, 2011, 05:38:38 am
References:

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:NileCrocodile.jpg (http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:NileCrocodile.jpg)
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Crocodylus_acutus_mexico_01.jpg (http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Crocodylus_acutus_mexico_01.jpg)
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Marsh_Crocodiles_basking_in_the_sun.JPG (http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Marsh_Crocodiles_basking_in_the_sun.JPG)
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:CROCO840.JPG (http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:CROCO840.JPG)

Sketch 1:
(http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/1878/lesson41.png)
Sketch 2:
(http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/1971/lesson42.png)
Sketch 3:
(http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/4593/lesson43.png)

#1 came out really lame and cartooney. # 2 is my favorite.
Title: Re: Lesson 4: Using a Reference
Post by: Krava on February 03, 2011, 11:51:37 am
ok let's see...
croc skull reference:
http://www.google.hr/imgres?imgurl=http://www.azdrybones.com/images/Nile-Crocodile.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.azdrybones.com/crocodylia.htm&usg=__52HVC56hsKXPxC7WVN0ATMT2Ijg=&h=375&w=500&sz=26&hl=hr&start=24&zoom=1&tbnid=9189jd30jyiZDM:&tbnh=138&tbnw=240&ei=pIpKTb-1OsLogQep2b04&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dnile%2Bcrocodile%26hl%3Dhr%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26hs%3DR4c%26sa%3DX%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26biw%3D1024%26bih%3D604%26tbs%3Disch:10%2C798&itbs=1&iact=rc&dur=565&oei=kYpKTfCxEoyD4QaiwZ3NCw&esq=3&page=3&ndsp=12&ved=1t:429,r:1,s:24&tx=210&ty=88&biw=1024&bih=604

croc posing with an arm:
http://www.google.hr/imgres?imgurl=http://www.zonaeuropa.com/20070413_05.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.zonaeuropa.com/20070413_1.htm&usg=__j46KdfzlXoeyOPJYPtfvJoF7cW4=&h=360&w=650&sz=71&hl=hr&start=36&zoom=1&tbnid=7LuzzcNryGlVdM:&tbnh=119&tbnw=214&ei=LotKTbDhNojLgQe6o8DsDw&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dnile%2Bcrocodile%26hl%3Dhr%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26sa%3DX%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26biw%3D1024%26bih%3D604%26tbs%3Disch:10%2C1482&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=124&vpy=261&dur=5781&hovh=167&hovw=302&tx=200&ty=89&oei=kYpKTfCxEoyD4QaiwZ3NCw&esq=3&page=4&ndsp=12&ved=1t:429,r:4,s:36&biw=1024&bih=604
And baby nile croc, love the detail of an eye
http://www.google.hr/imgres?imgurl=http://www.crocodilefotos.com/images/CF_final.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.crocodilefotos.com/home1.htm&usg=__pWSIWaGMHujhF2Khr_Li3aHEO0w=&h=384&w=588&sz=102&hl=hr&start=48&zoom=1&tbnid=09BbSWoSE8jwQM:&tbnh=139&tbnw=187&ei=bItKTa7jB9PdgQe_vbwN&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dnile%2Bcrocodile%26hl%3Dhr%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26sa%3DX%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26biw%3D1024%26bih%3D604%26tbs%3Disch:10%2C1729&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=315&vpy=332&dur=2712&hovh=181&hovw=278&tx=143&ty=101&oei=kYpKTfCxEoyD4QaiwZ3NCw&esq=4&page=5&ndsp=12&ved=1t:429,r:1,s:48&biw=1024&bih=604
And some other, too much to mention

Sketch
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c281/Chromat/krokodili.jpg)

Title: Re: Lesson 4: Using a Reference
Post by: SunnyGreens on February 04, 2011, 05:32:01 am
Sketch #2:
(http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/8003/crocodilesketch2.png)
Sketch #3:
(http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/1072/crocodilesketch3.png)
Sketch #4:
(http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/7519/crocodilesketch4.png)
Title: Re: Lesson 4: Using a Reference
Post by: pepokish on February 04, 2011, 04:44:37 pm
Krahhl - Very nice sketches!  These turned out very nicely.  The first two are definitely my favourites -- nice work experimenting with a unique angle on the first sketch.  Feel free to continue on with whichever sketch you like best.

--

ArtCrusade - Very interesting sketches you've got, here.  (:  They are just fine for step 1, no worries.

In the first image, it seems like the humanoid-being is placing his head in the Crocodile's mouth, but the Crocodle is on a separate plane, making it a rather confusing layout.  I suggest either making sure the crocodile's body is on the same level as the human's, or introducing some sort of perspective, as if the crocodile's body is moving directly away from the viewer.  Here's a rough example of what I mean:

(http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/6721/corrections.jpg)
You have some lovely curves going on with your Croc's noses, but notice how the top of a Crocodiles snout is actually very straight and rigid, and doesn't bend.

Aside from those little things, I think you're ready to move on.  (:  Feel free to pick the sketch you like best, and start refining it into a fully-fledged illustration.

--

Wizelsnarf - I think these are the happiest Crocodiles I've seen, yet!  :D 

You've done very well, so far.  The only thing that I can really pick at, is that in the first sketch there seems to be a bit of perspective confusion -- most of the Croc's body is seen from directly above, but the head is turned entirely sideways. 

Other than that, very nicely done!  Feel free to continue on as you see fit.  (:

--

Krava - Very impressive!  These are great sketches.  Ideally, I would like to see more definition with the understructure -- but the purpose of that is generally to help with anatomy, and you're anatomy looks lovely, anyway.

The only mistake I can spot here, is that the top-most Croc's eye seems a bit too high; it looks a bit like his eye is more in the center of his forehead rather than at the top-side of his head, where it should be.  Other than that, great job.  C:  I look forward to seeing what you come up with, further!

--

SunnyGreens - Ah, lovely sketches!  I love the perspective in the second sketch -- very daring.  c: 

I think the first sketch could be improved if the Croc's head was more towards the center, looking more toward the viewer (slightly or fully -- either way).  As it is, I have the feeling that the figure is off-balance and tilting to the left.

Anyway, nicely done, feel free to move on if you'd like!

--

Thanks for your patience, everyone!  Everyone did an excellent job of following the guidelines and doing the assignment correctly.  C:  I can't wait to see more!
Title: Re: Lesson 4: Using a Reference
Post by: Malduk on February 04, 2011, 07:44:29 pm
Heh, this was a pain for pen and paper. Photo of a sketch is meh, as I tried to draw it very lightly as we'll have to finish up those sketches later. Some lines are barely visible if at all...
Anatomy of a crocodile is a bit boring, but drawing their heads is fun  ;D Hopefully we can start working on details and finish the sketch?

(http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/1455/sketch8u.jpg)
Title: Re: Lesson 4: Using a Reference
Post by: vrt on February 05, 2011, 11:31:01 am
Malduk: Top right sketch is wonderful, but seems to be almost traced. Try using the references you're using as a base to 'enhance' the skeleton a bit more; fantasy art works best when you slightly exaggerate things. As far as I'm concerned though; feel free to finish this one up when you're satisfied with how the sketch looks! :)
Title: Re: Lesson 4: Using a Reference
Post by: bored_ninja777 on February 08, 2011, 04:04:49 am
i plan on doing this just need some more time.. havent had much for extra time to spend on here or anything. ill try to have something up by end of the week. maybe on 27th or if i have time during day.. ill just edit this spot for when i post mine.
Title: Re: Lesson 4: Using a Reference
Post by: Krava on February 11, 2011, 12:39:59 pm
Ok, i dont know if this apply but i did use a crocodile references to draw this two headed wyvern.

(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c281/Chromat/2headwyrmcopy.jpg)
Title: Re: Lesson 4: Using a Reference
Post by: ArtCrusade on February 23, 2011, 05:20:18 pm
I based this one off the crocodile. It's a dragon who's spitting fire. I didn't finish it yet, because I'm not entirely sure about the proportions..

(http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/1421/wipdragon.png)
Title: Re: Lesson 4: Using a Reference
Post by: wizelsnarf on February 25, 2011, 03:12:02 am
I know this area is getting no love recently and I am certainly part of the blame.


I have been busy with masterdom, applying to schools etc but I have more free time at the moment and am working on my finished crocodile. It is coming along nicely but I still expect another hour or 2 to completion. Thought I would post what I have currently just because.

I plan to:

-Finish the back and tail
-Add teeth
-Detail it again/more/touchup
-Colorize

(http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/5613/lesson42halfdone.png)

Title: Re: Lesson 4: Using a Reference
Post by: wizelsnarf on February 27, 2011, 01:57:35 am
I kind of just wanted to finish so I didn't do a ton of detailing. I can see vrt writing "for god's sake, clean up the edges" or some such comment and I know that it is a bit blurry and unclean in places. Also, it turned out looking rather cute - more like a baby croc than an adult. That was not intentional (though I don't mind.) I think I made the body too short and the head too big thus giving it comical baby animal proportions... Not perfect, but I wanted to make some defitinitive progress since I have been so slow (and what happened to everyone else?!)


Anyhow I am pleased with the crocodile, but then I went to give it a background or some context and realized I had no clue what I was doing. Any tips on how to make an appropriate background would be helpful - the creature is drawn as though it is floating in water. I made up a quick partial background but it doesn't look that great.

vrt, pepokish, advice on backgrounds?

PS how is the light? The light source is supposed to be from the front, top and left - your left ear maybe - though it is pretty soft and diffuse.

Croc:
(http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/8487/lesson42nowater.png)
Croc in some light water:
(http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/2768/lesson42water.png)
Title: Re: Lesson 4: Using a Reference
Post by: ArtCrusade on March 04, 2011, 10:03:07 am
I wonder how this class can be useful if you have to wait 2 weeks until you get a reply. I understand that you are busy, but the point remains..

EDIT: The fact that noone replied to this post for almost a week says enough.. :-X
Title: Re: Lesson 4: Using a Reference
Post by: wizelsnarf on March 08, 2011, 06:19:55 am
I am waiting too :(

Most of the people who started in the first few threads have fallen off leaving just a couple of us. I think pepokish is in a real life phase and vrt has barely anytime to comment.

I hope this is not about to become a graveyard.
Title: Re: Lesson 4: Using a Reference
Post by: bored_ninja777 on March 08, 2011, 07:21:03 pm
i wish i had time... i am either working or doing other things.. today is my only day off until sunday again.. and i just dont have the time right now to attempt to draw something for nile crocodile.. i know i can draw from an image.. im almost a human copy machine sometimes..  so missing this one isnt hurting me too much.. but i wish i could do more.. and drawing with a mouse or touchpad i still cant do for shit.. so im stuck using paper and pencil
Title: Re: Lesson 4: Using a Reference
Post by: vrt on March 08, 2011, 10:36:18 pm
I'm really sorry for the delays that the Art Class got, folks, but I've got a lot on my plate currently. I'll try and squeeze in a small round of comments and paintovers tomorrow.
Title: Re: Lesson 4: Using a Reference
Post by: Krava on March 09, 2011, 10:23:16 am
I am also fine with slower pace as i have very little time to paint too. So no hurry, we will get there :)
Title: Re: Lesson 4: Using a Reference
Post by: vrt on March 09, 2011, 03:28:29 pm
There we go!

First of all; I applaud you, Krava and ArtCrusade, for trying to put this lesson into practice and developing on an idea of your own using the reference. I cannot stress enough, however, that it's crucial to understand the basics of what you're painting. By understanding the underlying logic (why is this leg here? How does this neck look rotated?), you gain far more than by simply trying to apply a first glance of a subject to your ideas. Knowledge, in art, is 60% of your skill.

Krava: The main issue I see here, is the neck. It goes from very fat, to very thin in way too little space. In my paintover, I tried to show you the skeleton, and what a stretched out crocodile frame would logically look like beside it. I also think the colours, light and contrast weren't quite up to par, but I have a distinct feeling you were onto that one yourself. If not, please tell me - I'll explain as best I can!

(http://www.vrt-designs.com/stuff/artclass/l4/krava_1.jpg)
ArtCrusade: The biggest flaw I saw in this one, was the anatomy of the legs. The entire skeleton seems a bit mismatched right now, but the legs stand out the most. In their current pose, they shouldn't be capable of bearing the weight of this creature, and most certainly, they can't attach to any major attachment point (such as a shoulderblade). Have a look at a crocodile skeleton, and I think you'll see my point. In my alternative skelton sketch, I left out the horns, but do keep in mind that typically, you'll want the horns to flow from the skeleton - all they are is bone, after all. Triceratops or Stegosaurus skeletons should be a great reference for how these attach.


(http://www.vrt-designs.com/stuff/artclass/l4/crusade1.jpg)
wizelsnarf: Hope you don't mind this paintover; pepokish mentioned it might look a bit rude. However, I accented the two most strikingly off parts of your piece. First and foremost: The perspective on the crocodile (red grid) and the water (green grid) don't match up. Perspective flaws are the ones the human eye can most easily make out, so be very careful with things like these. Second; you've probably noticed the yellow lines and 'suns'. These are where I must assume your light is coming from, based on the shadows and highlights of the croc. Try and keep a consistent light; even if your reference was lit from a million angles. Try and understand the bone structure and texture, so that you can show that from a different lighting angle.

(http://www.vrt-designs.com/stuff/artclass/l4/wizel1.jpg)

There we go, all done. If I missed something (or god forbid, someone!), don't hesitate to poke me!
Title: Re: Lesson 4: Using a Reference
Post by: Krava on March 09, 2011, 07:32:29 pm
ok, nice!

In that light i made (quick) painting of croc and now i understand although he looks like crocodile, he misses that something in concept that will make him more "crocodile like". Some aspect, pose or something. Should spend more time on concept...
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c281/Chromat/crocskolacopy.jpg)

ok, reference, valuable... should look at crocks more if i intend to paint one better. i think i didnt get how his head really looks on top...
Title: Re: Lesson 4: Using a Reference
Post by: Flayne on April 18, 2011, 12:45:55 pm
sorry for interrupting but Why is this thread so inactive all of a sudden?
Title: Re: Lesson 4: Using a Reference
Post by: Kuroaitou on April 18, 2011, 05:20:53 pm
Quote from: Flayne on April 18, 2011, 12:45:55 pm
sorry for interrupting but Why is this thread so inactive all of a sudden?
vrt and pepokish are very busy with their real lives, unfortunately. Hopefully if they do come back, this project can be restarted again with a 5th lesson and whatnot. :)
Title: Re: Lesson 4: Using a Reference
Post by: bored_ninja777 on September 21, 2011, 08:04:44 pm
so i just noticed vrt "quit".. so that means no more art class.. is someone else going to take over or is it just going to be chilling here on forums not doing anything?
Title: Re: Lesson 4: Using a Reference
Post by: EmeraldTiger on September 21, 2011, 10:51:14 pm
I do image manipulation, I think anyone could do that rather easily. If anyone needs a tip on my style, just ask.
Title: Re: Lesson 4: Using a Reference
Post by: vrt on October 06, 2011, 05:19:17 pm
Might come back to this in a month or two. We'll see.


Meanwhile, Kamietsu, Tiko or Krava would certainly qualify to try their hand at this.
Title: Re: Lesson 4: Using a Reference
Post by: Krava on October 07, 2011, 06:16:29 am
Now that's an interesting proposition..
Title: Re: Lesson 4: Using a Reference
Post by: Kamietsu on October 07, 2011, 10:23:39 am
Quote from: Krava on October 07, 2011, 06:16:29 am
Now that's an interesting proposition..
I agree..
blarg: