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Other Topics => Forum Archive => Art Class => Topic started by: vrt on January 03, 2011, 06:25:05 pm

Title: Lesson 3: Back to Basics
Post by: vrt on January 03, 2011, 06:25:05 pm
Time for the third lesson! And again, we'll be sketching. Lesson 2 made it clear that this is hard for a lot of people, so we're going back to the beginning. If you really want to improve your work, this is the ultimate start. Read on..


Lesson 3: Assignment:

The sketches will be different than you've done in Lesson 2, and in more than one way. The main difference, is that you will all be sketching variations of the very same creature. It's a creature I doodled up in about 20 minutes; I will post the 'final' sketch,  and an animated progress one:

(http://www.vrt-designs.com/stuff/artclass/l3_final.png) (http://www.vrt-designs.com/stuff/artclass/l3_animated.gif)

As you can tell, it's some sort of raptor-esque being. What it is exactly, I don't know, but I have you all to show me this. Pay close attention to the animated progress; it shows the transition from skeleton, to muscle definition, to a rough shape, to adjustments and detailing. Take note these steps, and when you draw your sketches, use the information that the skeleton has to your advantage!


What I want to see in this assignment is the following - and mind you; both pepokish and myself might very well skip anyone not following this:

don't rush these!
[/li] Every sketch must show the skeleton, and muscle groups. There will be no erasing of early parts of the sketch. If we don't see a basic framework, the only comment you get might be "read the assignment again".
[/li][/list]Now, I mentioned in the opening that this is a point where you can leap forward. I meant that, but it requires effort from you, the student, to do this. This is optional for the Lesson, but it's vital for you to become better. If you start a sketch, and see it's going wrong; don't erase a thing, but keep working on the sketch until the 30 minutes are past. At that point, post the sketch and explain where you think you went wrong.


You will learn more from yourself than you ever though possible, but it won't come easy.



With the beginning of Lesson 3, the topic for Lesson 1 has been locked. This assignment will run for 2 weeks. On Monday, January 17th, Lesson 4 will start.





Good luck!
Title: Re: Lesson 3: Back to Basics
Post by: SunnyGreens on January 04, 2011, 05:44:58 am
It became clear very early on that I picked a tough angle to sketch, but I kept going as requested. The raptor is supposed to be coming forward through the canvas but I got the proportions and angles kinda messed up. I think I kind of got the lower half to look like its further away, but the upper half looks really flat.

Sketch #1:
(http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/9499/raptorsketchattack.png)
Title: Re: Lesson 3: Back to Basics
Post by: Krahhl on January 04, 2011, 08:57:20 am
I added wings and a long neck. He is supposed to by flying, but I think I made the back curve upward too much. Instead, it should droop down.

(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd116495/raptordragon.jpg)
Title: Re: Lesson 3: Back to Basics
Post by: icecoldbro on January 04, 2011, 09:22:44 am
(http://imageplay.net/m7Gbd116496/Fire_Dragon_lesson_3_copy_thumb.jpg) (http://imageplay.net/view/m7Gbd116496/Fire_Dragon_lesson_3_copy)Um yeah i dont go well with what i tried to do, i try though so i guess i get some props there, what went wrong... Just about everything i normally take hours drawing so i couldnt finish much in 30 mins
(http://imageplay.net/m7Gbd116498/Fire_Dragon_lesson_3_frame_and_thumb.jpg) (http://imageplay.net/view/m7Gbd116498/Fire_Dragon_lesson_3_frame_and)(http://imageplay.net/m7Gbd116499/Fire_Dragon_lesson_3_bodier_thumb.jpg) (http://imageplay.net/view/m7Gbd116499/Fire_Dragon_lesson_3_bodier)(http://imageplay.net/m7Gbd116500/Fire_Dragon_lesson_3_frame_thumb.jpg) (http://imageplay.net/view/m7Gbd116500/Fire_Dragon_lesson_3_frame)
Title: Re: Lesson 3: Back to Basics
Post by: vrt on January 04, 2011, 12:44:51 pm
SunnyGreens: Extreme perspective is hard, even I have trouble with it at times. The mistake you made was to not adjust the proportions to the angles. I made you a redline with a box figure; boxes are a great way to check perspective. I think you'll agree that the initial pose is where it went wrong.

(http://www.vrt-designs.com/stuff/artclass/l3_sunny1.png)

Krahhl: Well on your way, here. Try to make more use of the skeleton and frame to get the overlaying detail, though. For you, a redline as well - I simply used the shapes you had in the skeleton/muscles, to define the contours of the hip.

(http://www.vrt-designs.com/stuff/artclass/l3_krahhl1.png)

icecoldbro: Read the assignment again.
Title: Re: Lesson 3: Back to Basics
Post by: Tiko on January 04, 2011, 05:52:14 pm
Hi everyone!

As I said before I'd like to join up in the art class. Though I haven't had a single draw in about 6 or more yrs or so, nor I have anything to do digital arts with, I loved to draw out thingies from my mind, as a kid, and seeing the vast patience and helpfulness of vrt and pepokish, I thought I'd give it a shot. Maybe they push me back on the 'right' road, who knows? :]

Anyway, I liked very much the lizardy-werewolf-like creature, so here's my try:

(http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/8808/artclassi.jpg)
Yes, I know it became some zergling-like thing, but hey, at least it's not fat! :D
Title: Re: Lesson 3: Back to Basics
Post by: vrt on January 04, 2011, 06:18:45 pm
Tikotribe: Great job on using the skeleton, but do mind the flatness of his chest. Use the shapes you 'hang' onto the skeleton to define a bit more detail. I made a paintover for you that might help a bit. I'd also suggest adding a bit more detail to him, he's a bit bare. Considering you managed to shade him entirely, I'd say you have a bit of time left, I think that'd have been better spent defining his face an/or muscles a bit more. You're very much on the right track, though; glad to see we managed to pull you of of hiatus! :D

(http://www.vrt-designs.com/stuff/artclass/l3_tikot1.png)
Title: Re: Lesson 3: Back to Basics
Post by: Krahhl on January 04, 2011, 11:49:03 pm
Hmm. Front view is hard. The angles look a bit weird. The chest is too big (or he's just fat?) and I probably shouldn't have gone that far up with the shadow on the right of where the neck connects to the torso.

I don't know if I set the opacity on the skeleton and muscle layers too low, but they kind of interfered with the shading.

(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd117013/raptordragon2.jpg)
Title: Re: Lesson 3: Back to Basics
Post by: bored_ninja777 on January 05, 2011, 02:49:21 am
(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd117079/Webcam_capture.jpg) (http://imageplay.net/)
so.. my quick sketch failed getting it on the right angle and pose i wanted.. the tail did not want to cooperate and his head should be looking more to the side while the body is more turned away, so we should be seeing more the back of him and the profile of his head.
sorry hard to see well .. splashup + webcam capture of pencil and paper.
Title: Re: Lesson 3: Back to Basics
Post by: SunnyGreens on January 05, 2011, 03:25:16 am
Thanks vrt, I'll try the boxes on another sketch.

Sketch #2:
(http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/9389/raptorsketch2.png)
Title: Re: Lesson 3: Back to Basics
Post by: Kamietsu on January 05, 2011, 07:10:02 am
I wanted to go cute, because reptiles have such an evil, or bad, or some kind of cool/badassery sort of reputation. I wanted to go the road less traveled :D Took me around 30 minutes, mainly because sketching in photoshop with a mouse might as well be torture haha. In actuality, it took me hours, but that's because I got sidetracked doing other things and watching tv. But all time spent actually working on it, didn't go over 30 minutes at a max.


(http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/2902/reptilesketch.png)
I know several places I went wrong, particularly on the forearms, especially on the right arm. The legs gave me great difficulty, mostly due to the angle at which I attempted to sketch them. The face definitely came out strangely. it doesn't feel like it fits with the body, but I didn't pay large attention to it.

Another issue, I started out with a large canvas, and yet somehow ended up with a much smaller drawing XD I will have to work on something bigger after review.
Title: Re: Lesson 3: Back to Basics
Post by: vrt on January 05, 2011, 11:40:42 am
krahhl: The main problem, is that you're trying too hard to get a certain image, and not hard enough to develop the anatomy of the creature. With the skeleton you had laid out, shapes become unnatural. Try to make the skeleton flow more, have it make more sense. In example, the twist in the neck looks off because it is simply not a natural angle. With long necks, drawing vertebrae helps a lot, as I tried to show in my paintover. I also want to emphasise once again, that you should try to develop the shapes more, make them look more attached to eachother. In pretty much every living creature we know, all parts work together to let it live efficiently. Try to show that in the fantasy creature, too. :)

(http://www.vrt-designs.com/stuff/artclass/l3_krahhl2.png)
bored_ninja777: Very hard to make out what you made, even when I upped the contrast. I think I can get a basic idea, though, and the same goes for you as it does for Krahhl: Get the skeleton right, and use it as much as you can to enhance the shape of the creature. I made you a little example, too:

(http://www.vrt-designs.com/stuff/artclass/l3_bninja1.png)
SunnyGreens: Excellent sketch, technique is fantastic. I do have one point of criticism, and that's the attachment of the leg. I'll show you in a paintover, but this is much further into anatomy than I was planning to go this lesson. Well done.

(http://www.vrt-designs.com/stuff/artclass/l3_sunn2.png)

Kamietsu: You already mentioned the flaws, and it seems to me like this is an issue of tools rather than training. Could you re-do this sketch in traditional media, and post it? I think you'll find it to look a lot better.
Title: Re: Lesson 3: Back to Basics
Post by: bored_ninja777 on January 05, 2011, 07:01:25 pm
(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd117644/artclass3.2.jpg) (http://imageplay.net/)my 2nd attempt at getting angle right. i think i did the skeleton better this time around. sorry if its hard to see.. webcam captures are about as good as me taking picture of it. hopefully its easier than last one to see.
tail still gave me issues.
Title: Re: Lesson 3: Back to Basics
Post by: wizelsnarf on January 06, 2011, 02:37:30 am
(http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/2885/lesson31.png)

I stopped at 30 mins.


I really wanted to erase to clean up overlap but resisted the urge. Done with a mouse and it has that feel. doesn't have the hand drawn sketchy feel.

I noticed mistakes as I went but did not correct them per directions.

Specifically:

-The left lower side (butt) is way too big
-The tail is not angled correctly, it looks twisted
-Somehow the lower legs look weird. That extra joint was too hard to do correctly for me
-Also just noticed that the back hip really shouldn't be higher unless it is standing on a slope
Title: Re: Lesson 3: Back to Basics
Post by: SunnyGreens on January 06, 2011, 03:57:17 am
I apologize in advance.

Sketch #3:
(http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/2899/raptorsketch3.png)
Not sure why there's a belly button since it's a reptile. Oh well.

Also thank you vrt for the paintover, but while the red is clear, I am not entirely sure what the green is supposed to illustrate. The green block shape I assume is a pelvis, what about the rest? Contour of the muscles?
Title: Re: Lesson 3: Back to Basics
Post by: Krahhl on January 06, 2011, 11:19:51 am
I tried to make the anatomy flow and make sense. The right wing still seems weird because important details are covered by the left wing.

The shading is somewhat inconsistent on the top of the body. The light is supposed to be coming from the bottom left.

(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd118070/raptordragon3.jpg)
Title: Re: Lesson 3: Back to Basics
Post by: Malduk on January 06, 2011, 03:54:08 pm
Here I am. Taking photos of the drawings is a serious pain. I never get the centered photo and the image is always slightly skewed on one side.  :))

Anyway, fast sketch 5 or so minutes. Didnt want to spend time shading or "fixing" it, as it would likely hide skeleton. I tried to give the creature body of a four legged predator (say a cougar). Not entirely happy with the result. Seems too thin (in waist mostly).

(http://img547.imageshack.us/img547/6909/sketch5.jpg)
Title: Re: Lesson 3: Back to Basics
Post by: ArtCrusade on January 06, 2011, 04:10:15 pm
My apologies, that was the first thing coming to my mind when I saw your rapor-ish being :P

(http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/5319/raptailtoilet.png)
Title: Re: Lesson 3: Back to Basics
Post by: pepokish on January 06, 2011, 09:56:38 pm
Great job everyone with using the skeletons before fleshing out the figure!  (:  You guys are all doing great!

bored_ninja - Indeed, the skeleton for this sketch is a lot better!  C:  It's much easier to see, and the shapes are looking a lot more organic, as well.  Right now, the tail kind of resembles a scythe.  I wasn't sure if that was what you were going for.  If you were going more for something natural, remember that the tail is a natural extension of the spine.  It should flow right from the spine without any 'connecting' pieces at all.  In fact, it is the spine, with some fat and muscle over the top.

As for the angle.. I think perhaps you're having difficulty visualizing the pose he's in?  It seems that he's stuck between a side-view and a back-view, and the various components of his body disagree with each other in communicating his body position.  For instance, all four of his legs indicate that his body is turned to the side, because they are all facing the same direction on the same side of the body, suggesting that he is laying/standing sideways.  However, his hips and shoulders seem to be straight-on to the viewer, which gives a conflicting read.

I apologize to Sarah Louise Winch for nabbing this off of google (sorry vrt... lol), but I wanted to show a good example of a skeleton in mostly-top/back view with a head in profile:

(http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/4172/boredninja.jpg) 

Anyway, great job with defining the skeleton and working on more organic structure.  (:  Keep trying to define the skeleton more -- don't be afraid to mark things such as the pelvis and ribcage, as well.

--

wizelsnarf - You pointed out most of the flaws on your own, but I did have a few more things I wanted to add.  (:

(http://img375.imageshack.us/img375/3941/wizelsnarf1.jpg)
As I told ninja, remember that the tail is a natural extension of the spine.  There is no difference in spine and tail -- they are the same.  The spine should naturally follow the general contour of the back -- the line you have drawn through the body is more like a midline, indicating the centerline along the belly/front torso.  I see that the midline connects the tail to the body, but not the spine.  In red, I indicated a (fairly sloppy) general flow of how the spine of your creature would go, and fixed up the tail accordingly.

I wanted to say that those hind legs look excellent.  You don't seem too happy with them, but I'm really impressed.  I think what went wrong was the muscle structure around the calves, and how that connects with the ankles.  Don't be afraid to use references!  Google dog feet, lizard feet, whatever you'd like to be your inspiration -- and look at how things look in that area, then try to replicate it.  Don't copy your reference directly, just try to get a feel for how things work, and keep that in mind while drawing.

One last point, is that the forelegs give off a very poor read.  Consider the sillhouette of your creature -- it will seem that it has two arms sprouting from the same shoulder.  I would definitely suggest trying to get those front legs to overlap more, to make it obvious that one leg is behind the other.  Also, don't foreget about foreshortening -- same as what I said to bored_ninja, having both legs come out the same side isn't very usual for a pose that's mostly from behind.

Anyway, you're doing really well!  All I had to critique were anatomical details, you are doing great with the sketch technique. (:

--

krahhl - I noticed that you had put in some effort to add some shading to your sketch.  I did a little paintover showing roughly how I would do things, bearing in mind the same lightsource.  You were definitely on the right track, I just think you could go further with it.  (:  (Though obviously, at this stage, it's not a great idea to go too far with shading).

(http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/5490/krahhl1.jpg) 

Shadow is obviously an excellent tool for defining shape and muscle structure.  Don't be afraid to define that muscle and irregularities in the creature's build.

Now, for the sketch itself, you did a great job this time of defining the skeleton -- but I'd like to see you push a bit further.  The one thing you're really missing here is a spine.  The spine is near the very top of the creature's build, not through the center.  In addition, spines don't usually dip so sharply between the shoulder and hip area, and in fact tend to be fairly flat in most creatures.  I made a little paintover for you, showing a more viable-looking torso build.

(http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/9800/krahhl2.jpg)
Remember that everything is connected -- the neck to the shoulders, the shoulders to the hips -- nothing is separate.  It's all part of one body. 

Anyway, nice improvement from the last sketch -- keep it up!  C:

--

Okay, now I apologize to the remaining three of you, but I am absolutely exhausted and need to head to bed.  Vrt has told me that he will be coming around shortly to give the rest of you critiques.  (:
Title: Re: Lesson 3: Back to Basics
Post by: vrt on January 06, 2011, 10:57:01 pm
Here we go then!

SunnyGreens: The green shapes in the paintover are very rough muscle definitions; especially in active poses, muscles define the look of a creature. As for the rest; no critique on the fat guy. It's a fantastic sketch.

Malduk: I'll grab the paintover right away, it'll make my explanation more clear.

(http://www.vrt-designs.com/stuff/artclass/l3_malduk1.png)
I think your main flaw was trying to apply a cougar's physical shape to this creature; their build is so different, that there's barely any comparison. As you'll note from the paintover; I left him bipedal. With the extra joint in the arms, I doubt he could ever run on four legs..

The issue mostly is that there isn't a good line to the skeleton; it doesn't really flow. A few more minutes spent reworking the 'foundation' would've really gone a long way to the look of the guy; given him a much better read. A bit more definition in the muscle setup, could've also given you the framework to draw a bit more detail into his muscles - since he's bare, the more the better!

ArtCrusade: Read the assignment.



Everyone involved: I'm very proud of what's been done this lesson. Hats off.
Title: Re: Lesson 3: Back to Basics
Post by: ratcharmer on January 06, 2011, 11:15:00 pm
The creature seemed very bird like to me, and I interpereted the sycthe-limbs as vestigal wings, so I tried to play off that a bit more.

I gave him a beak, talons for feet and messed with the legs.

(http://imageplay.net/m7Gbd118385/bird_hybrid001_thumb.jpg) (http://imageplay.net/view/m7Gbd118385/bird_hybrid001)
Title: Re: Lesson 3: Back to Basics
Post by: SunnyGreens on January 07, 2011, 04:07:35 am
I tried giving him some chest muscles but ran out of time.

Sketch #4:
(http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/4143/raptorsketch4.png)
Title: Re: Lesson 3: Back to Basics
Post by: bored_ninja777 on January 07, 2011, 05:23:55 am
attempt 3
a more refined skeleton and hopefully better on the angle.. i made the feet/hands angled little to help show depth and also the face is still turned but the rest is a back view.
my best so far i think. the tail is much better and flowing with the spine. it seems like this pose is more like it is climbing up a cliff kind of thing.
(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd118563/arclass3.3.jpg) (http://imageplay.net/)
Title: Re: Lesson 3: Back to Basics
Post by: Krahhl on January 08, 2011, 12:49:45 am
Thanks, pepokish, for pointing out the error in my spine.

I do like using shading to define some shapes, as it is more believable than just lines. However, I don't really make it more than just that: believable. Filling the image with different shades of color, leaving only the lightest parts white, would be time consuming and isn't the focus of this lesson.

Though I did do a bit more in this sketch.

(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd118884/raptordragon4.jpg)
I think I actually should've shaded more on the right side of the hip and shoulder. The skeleton covers what I have.

I'm also not satisfied with the right wing. It should look like it curves forward/down more.
Title: Re: Lesson 3: Back to Basics
Post by: Malduk on January 08, 2011, 04:53:22 pm
(http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/3385/sketch6.jpg)
I have to say this one was hard for me to draw, as I made tons of mistakes while drawing it. Had to erase several times due to bad proportions, and skeleton didnt help either. Main problem is that I didnt have a model to look at while drawing, and I guess I'm still not that comfortable with drawing anatomy in whatever pose from my head.
The problem I have with skeleton is that with lines and circles, proportions look good to me, until I start adding muscle groups. I dont know if I'm missing something, or I just need more practice. I actually finished this by doing fast skeleton-sketch that looked terrible, and then doing it again, by looking at mistakes I did in the first try. Fixing mistakes would be so much easier by using photoshop, than it is on the paper.
Anyway, one thing I didnt fix in this sketch is its left leg. That one should be "bigger" as its more towards to viewer. The way I drew it, it looks like its more to the back (I dont know how to explain this better lol).
Also, I guess I'm just bad at drawing heads, especially details on the head.
Title: Re: Lesson 3: Back to Basics
Post by: Malduk on January 09, 2011, 05:47:13 pm
Been having fun practicing drawing anatomy without looking at the model, and figured might as well post it.

(http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/5333/sketch7.jpg)
Title: Re: Lesson 3: Back to Basics
Post by: vrt on January 09, 2011, 09:15:22 pm
Quote from: vrt on January 03, 2011, 06:25:05 pm
Please do not post another sketch before receiving a reply to your earlier one. We will try to be right on top of this thread, don't rush these!
Really, people.


I'd love to have replied to all of you right now, but an unfortunate accident has caused my mother to be hospitalized with multiple fractures in her spine.. I  simply don't have the time right now. I hope you all can be patient.
Title: Re: Lesson 3: Back to Basics
Post by: ArtCrusade on January 09, 2011, 09:42:12 pm
Oh my, my best wishes and good luck there :-X
Title: Re: Lesson 3: Back to Basics
Post by: Tiko on January 09, 2011, 09:42:45 pm
May she have a quick recovery; and a lot of strength for you!
Title: Re: Lesson 3: Back to Basics
Post by: SunnyGreens on January 09, 2011, 11:38:49 pm
Sorry, was trying to keep my momentum going. I removed the extra posts. Hope all goes well with your mother.
Title: Re: Lesson 3: Back to Basics
Post by: RavingRabbid on January 11, 2011, 08:55:23 pm
(http://localhostr.com/file/Racn91G/Bestiadeforme%20copia.jpg)

I can't really describe what it is.
Title: Re: Lesson 3: Back to Basics
Post by: Malduk on January 12, 2011, 02:44:18 pm
Really sorry to hear that vrt. :( Hope it all goes well.
Title: Re: Lesson 3: Back to Basics
Post by: wizelsnarf on January 12, 2011, 07:55:39 pm
vrt, Sounds really scary. Sorry man, I wish for your mother to get well soon.


(http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/3189/lesson32.png)



I drew this one quick. Somehow I spent like 7 minutes doing a speed paint version before I realized that wasn't the point of this lesson.

The brush I used was kind of lame looking but I think anatomically speaking it came out alright. I didn't erase so there was some overlap (around the butt legs and tail especially.


Flaws I can identify:

-The torso isn't correct. It gets too narrow at the bottom and isn't in the same plane as the shoulders.
-The calves don't look right. They are too beefy and not sculpted enough.
-The body is twisted slightly from the seating, the shoulders aren't in the same plane as the knees
-Again I managed to sketch a bad "read" I thought it would be cool to put the hand spikes crossing each other but it came out looking bad. It is hard to tell what they are because of the position I chose.
Title: Re: Lesson 3: Back to Basics
Post by: Glitch on January 15, 2011, 11:17:19 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/K0UOU.png)

I wanted it to look haunched over and snarling, as though it was approaching a foe smaller than it that had been backed into a corner.

A few mistakes I noticed:  The shoulders are in the wrong spot, and the whole mid-section is just... wrong.  It looks snakelike.  I tried to hide that by adding spikes to the back and gills/abs/things that don't look like anything but add detail.  I spent a lot of time on the face.  I wanted it to look like it had both a beak and a place for the beak to go, which is good.

Seems pretty good, considering A) it's the first time I've ever used a skeleton, and B) as with all my work, it's done using the touch pad.  In retrospect, adding a little bit of drool to it, or maybe fixing it's nose, would have been better.  Still, it's better than I thought it would turn out, especially since it was so sloppy.  It reads... okay... ish.
Title: Re: Lesson 3: Back to Basics
Post by: ArtCrusade on January 16, 2011, 11:17:52 am
(http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/373/raptorsketch.png)
Time was running out (my goal for a sketch is 15min) so I decided to stop working and just post it. I directly noticed several flaws, including the stretched leg which looks really bad and the claws which I just cannot make look good. I just added some values to define its shape.
Title: Re: Lesson 3: Back to Basics
Post by: vrt on January 16, 2011, 08:28:08 pm
ratcharmer: Good sketch; I can only advise you to draw the muscles out a bit more. The better the definition on them, the more believable they get!

SunnyGreens: Sketch is okay (your second one was better); the main problems seems to be that he's stuck between two perspectives, but the lack of definition on the chest might be the culprit there. :)

bored_ninja777: Try and add the muscles after you have the skeleton, make the lines flow more, and try to get a more organic look. This will increase the quality of the final image tenfold. I'll show you what I mean; I took your image and used it as a base for a quick outline.

(http://www.vrt-designs.com/stuff/artclass/l3_bninja2.png)

Krahhl: The same issue as with your first sketch, and that's a shame. While the proportions have improved a lot, you need to start drawing more loosely; stay away from the straight lines and give him a more natural flow. I tried to show you in a paintover:

(http://www.vrt-designs.com/stuff/artclass/l3_krahhl3.png)

Malduk: Excellent sketches. I'd strongly recommend you (and anyone else) to keep practising, even without assignments. As you can see; you only get better! :)

RavingRabbid: The main issue here, is the lack of shape. Try and build up from a skeleton (in fact; I'd like to see a separate image of that skeleton for the next sketch), and define the muscles a bit more. Try to show where and how they connect, and how they work with the body. Right now, I really just see a big 'O' with limbs stuck on.

(http://www.vrt-designs.com/stuff/artclass/l3_rr1.png)
wizelsnarf: I have nothing to add to your summary. To try and improve it, perhaps try and use shorter lines; between 3 quick strokes, you often get a better medium than one big one. This gives you more room to 'fix' a line up quickly, too.

Gl1tch: First and foremost; http://www.splashup.com/ will give you much better possibilities and quality. Since it's free and easily accessible, there's really no excuse to still use MSPaint. If the touchpad is too big a handicap; try going with pencil and paper. Aside from that; you're correct about your self-critiques, and have indeed identified the problem area's. While it seems to worked from the skeleton, you didn't add the muscle groups before really detailing him. That's just a guess, though; but I think especially the midsection makes it show. In the paintover, I tried to show you the difference between lines painted on, and a clear shape to the torso- hopefully it's helpful. :)

(http://www.vrt-designs.com/stuff/artclass/l3_glitch1.png)
ArtCrusade: The assignment is 30 minutes, not 15. Try and use the extra 15 minutes to go back to your image, flip it horizontally, and fix it up. Pay extra attention to the connection between muscle groups, they seem a bit 'stuck on' as it is, making him look as if he's static; there's no weight or movement to him.


Class is extended for another week due to the unforeseen delay.
Title: Re: Lesson 3: Back to Basics
Post by: SunnyGreens on January 16, 2011, 09:06:16 pm
Sketch #5:
(http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/3478/sketch5i.png)
Title: Re: Lesson 3: Back to Basics
Post by: vrt on January 16, 2011, 11:57:34 pm
That sketch is exactly what I hoped to see from you. Keep it up; technique and outcome are great.
Title: Re: Lesson 3: Back to Basics
Post by: Malduk on January 17, 2011, 01:50:55 am
Quote from: vrt on January 16, 2011, 08:28:08 pm
Malduk: Excellent sketches. I'd strongly recommend you (and anyone else) to keep practising, even without assignments. As you can see; you only get better! :)
Thanks vrt. I've been drawing a lot lately, and yeah, ever since I started paying more notice to anatomy and proportions, I'm much happier with the results.
Btw, should I post more sketches of this creature or wait?

On the side note, you recommended me some book on chat some time ago. Was it Loomis? I got that one, and its a bit information overload at the moment, but terrific stuff in there.
Title: Re: Lesson 3: Back to Basics
Post by: RavingRabbid on January 17, 2011, 09:02:29 pm
(http://localhostr.com/file/dhWb8DX/Anotherzebra%20copia.jpg)
(http://localhostr.com/file/JLzhXid/Anotherzebra%20skel.jpg)
The skeleton misses an arm and a leg. Yes.
Title: Re: Lesson 3: Back to Basics
Post by: Krahhl on January 18, 2011, 01:20:08 am
Decided to drop the wings on this one so I could focus more on the rest of the body.

(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd123932/raptor.jpg)
But... ran out of time before I could do any detailing o_o.

Realized that I made a mistake in the snout, the top line should continue right from where the eye crests end, not dip down.

(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd123933/raptorhead.jpg)
Title: Re: Lesson 3: Back to Basics
Post by: SunnyGreens on January 18, 2011, 05:58:02 am
Sketch #6:
(http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/4802/raptorsketch7.png)
Title: Re: Lesson 3: Back to Basics
Post by: Krava on January 18, 2011, 08:59:44 am
Ok, i was bit lazy but here it is...

my idea was to make it running like cartoon chicken, and i can tell that this skeleton is hard to place correctly.. it took me few times and im still not satisfied but...

 skeleton first
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c281/Chromat/pile1.jpg)

than rest of the reptile chicken
(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c281/Chromat/pile2.jpg)
Title: Re: Lesson 3: Back to Basics
Post by: xBerzerk on January 24, 2011, 06:38:01 am
Sorry if this post shouldn't be here; the art class subforum isn't available for post.
Curious. Are newcomers permitted into the art class or is it exclusive at the moment?
Title: Re: Lesson 3: Back to Basics
Post by: ArtCrusade on January 24, 2011, 02:14:56 pm
Everyone is free to post ;)
Title: Re: Lesson 3: Back to Basics
Post by: vrt on January 25, 2011, 08:17:51 am
Having some issues with my new PC and a tablet, so no redlines for now.

RavingRabbid: The skeleton doesn't make much sense to me. Not only the lack of limbs, but his inner boddy is a pear-shape, without mich dimension to it, and has strange half-circles on it. I don't see what you're trying to draw there. Try sticking to simple blocks (squares, circles, etc) to make the basic skeleton as simple as possible.

Krahhl: Much more like it. Keep in mind though; the circles you use for the hip and shoulder are basically the attachment points for the legs and arms. If those don't take up the full width of the creature, try and show the viewer how the muscle extends into the body.

SunnyGreens: Chest could do with a bith more definition, but great work nonetheless.

Krava: I'll admit, that thing's funny to look at. I think one of the main issues is that the body itself is a bit too thin; use the circles for the attachment points to define the size you need. Most creatures - particularly humanoids - are widest at the hips and shoulders, to it could taper off a bit in between. Do note that that 'widest'only goes for muscles and bones; plenty of fatties who'd disprove it otherwise :p


xBerzerk: You're free to join up, as is anyone else! The next lesson will hopefully start either today or tomorrow, so that should help, too :)
Title: Re: Lesson 3: Back to Basics
Post by: ArtCrusade on January 25, 2011, 08:33:23 pm
Might I suggest having one lesson about drawing things from your imagination? Like painting environments and stuff like that?
Title: Re: Lesson 3: Back to Basics
Post by: vrt on January 26, 2011, 04:51:55 pm
Quote from: ArtCrusade on January 25, 2011, 08:33:23 pm
Might I suggest having one lesson about drawing things from your imagination? Like painting environments and stuff like that?
Sure. Lesson 31, perhaps.
Title: Re: Lesson 3: Back to Basics
Post by: xBerzerk on January 27, 2011, 01:55:26 am
(http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/369/rockstatue.gif)

Not sure if I'm doing it right..
Title: Re: Lesson 3: Back to Basics
Post by: YawnChainHow on January 28, 2011, 04:31:41 am
Another late joiner here (!)

(http://i.imgur.com/KEb2Z.jpg)
The three things I will definitely keep in mind for next time are to start with an even bigger canvas, use the brush instead of the pencil, and just shrink it down to size later. I stuck with pencil the whole way through this sketch, and probably paid for it.

Ignoring the hideous head (sly bald chicken?), what displeased me the most was the bareness of the torso in general. I, with pencil, could not produce anything that did not look like a mortal wound on the abdomen, so I gave up on trying to do away with the blankness.

I also failed to give my sketch the emaciated, and therefore aggressive, look that I wanted; it came out plumper, not to mention much flatter, than I would have liked.

Final note: That is not a beard/goatee. That is lower-jaw-mold.  :D
Title: Re: Lesson 3: Back to Basics
Post by: xBerzerk on January 28, 2011, 05:41:44 am
nice pose. very flamboyant.
Title: Re: Lesson 3: Back to Basics
Post by: pepokish on January 28, 2011, 11:19:13 am
Sorry for the delay in getting around to everyone!  Vrt and I have been pretty busy, lately.

But at long last, Lesson 4 (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,20401.0.html) is posted!  C:
blarg: