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Offline bored_ninja777

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Re: Lesson 3: Back to Basics http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=18798.msg241095#msg241095
« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2011, 07:01:25 pm »
(http://imageplay.net/)my 2nd attempt at getting angle right. i think i did the skeleton better this time around. sorry if its hard to see.. webcam captures are about as good as me taking picture of it. hopefully its easier than last one to see.
tail still gave me issues.
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wizelsnarf

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Re: Lesson 3: Back to Basics http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=18798.msg241405#msg241405
« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2011, 02:37:30 am »


I stopped at 30 mins.


I really wanted to erase to clean up overlap but resisted the urge. Done with a mouse and it has that feel. doesn't have the hand drawn sketchy feel.

I noticed mistakes as I went but did not correct them per directions.

Specifically:

-The left lower side (butt) is way too big
-The tail is not angled correctly, it looks twisted
-Somehow the lower legs look weird. That extra joint was too hard to do correctly for me
-Also just noticed that the back hip really shouldn't be higher unless it is standing on a slope

SunnyGreens

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Re: Lesson 3: Back to Basics http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=18798.msg241445#msg241445
« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2011, 03:57:17 am »
I apologize in advance.

Sketch #3:
Not sure why there's a belly button since it's a reptile. Oh well.

Also thank you vrt for the paintover, but while the red is clear, I am not entirely sure what the green is supposed to illustrate. The green block shape I assume is a pelvis, what about the rest? Contour of the muscles?

Krahhl

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Re: Lesson 3: Back to Basics http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=18798.msg241564#msg241564
« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2011, 11:19:51 am »
I tried to make the anatomy flow and make sense. The right wing still seems weird because important details are covered by the left wing.

The shading is somewhat inconsistent on the top of the body. The light is supposed to be coming from the bottom left.


Malduk

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Re: Lesson 3: Back to Basics http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=18798.msg241664#msg241664
« Reply #16 on: January 06, 2011, 03:54:08 pm »
Here I am. Taking photos of the drawings is a serious pain. I never get the centered photo and the image is always slightly skewed on one side.  :))

Anyway, fast sketch 5 or so minutes. Didnt want to spend time shading or "fixing" it, as it would likely hide skeleton. I tried to give the creature body of a four legged predator (say a cougar). Not entirely happy with the result. Seems too thin (in waist mostly).



Offline ArtCrusade

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Re: Lesson 3: Back to Basics http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=18798.msg241671#msg241671
« Reply #17 on: January 06, 2011, 04:10:15 pm »
My apologies, that was the first thing coming to my mind when I saw your rapor-ish being :P


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Offline pepokish

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Re: Lesson 3: Back to Basics http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=18798.msg241928#msg241928
« Reply #18 on: January 06, 2011, 09:56:38 pm »
Great job everyone with using the skeletons before fleshing out the figure!  (:  You guys are all doing great!

bored_ninja - Indeed, the skeleton for this sketch is a lot better!  C:  It's much easier to see, and the shapes are looking a lot more organic, as well.  Right now, the tail kind of resembles a scythe.  I wasn't sure if that was what you were going for.  If you were going more for something natural, remember that the tail is a natural extension of the spine.  It should flow right from the spine without any 'connecting' pieces at all.  In fact, it is the spine, with some fat and muscle over the top.

As for the angle.. I think perhaps you're having difficulty visualizing the pose he's in?  It seems that he's stuck between a side-view and a back-view, and the various components of his body disagree with each other in communicating his body position.  For instance, all four of his legs indicate that his body is turned to the side, because they are all facing the same direction on the same side of the body, suggesting that he is laying/standing sideways.  However, his hips and shoulders seem to be straight-on to the viewer, which gives a conflicting read.

I apologize to Sarah Louise Winch for nabbing this off of google (sorry vrt... lol), but I wanted to show a good example of a skeleton in mostly-top/back view with a head in profile:

 

Anyway, great job with defining the skeleton and working on more organic structure.  (:  Keep trying to define the skeleton more -- don't be afraid to mark things such as the pelvis and ribcage, as well.

--

wizelsnarf - You pointed out most of the flaws on your own, but I did have a few more things I wanted to add.  (:


As I told ninja, remember that the tail is a natural extension of the spine.  There is no difference in spine and tail -- they are the same.  The spine should naturally follow the general contour of the back -- the line you have drawn through the body is more like a midline, indicating the centerline along the belly/front torso.  I see that the midline connects the tail to the body, but not the spine.  In red, I indicated a (fairly sloppy) general flow of how the spine of your creature would go, and fixed up the tail accordingly.

I wanted to say that those hind legs look excellent.  You don't seem too happy with them, but I'm really impressed.  I think what went wrong was the muscle structure around the calves, and how that connects with the ankles.  Don't be afraid to use references!  Google dog feet, lizard feet, whatever you'd like to be your inspiration -- and look at how things look in that area, then try to replicate it.  Don't copy your reference directly, just try to get a feel for how things work, and keep that in mind while drawing.

One last point, is that the forelegs give off a very poor read.  Consider the sillhouette of your creature -- it will seem that it has two arms sprouting from the same shoulder.  I would definitely suggest trying to get those front legs to overlap more, to make it obvious that one leg is behind the other.  Also, don't foreget about foreshortening -- same as what I said to bored_ninja, having both legs come out the same side isn't very usual for a pose that's mostly from behind.

Anyway, you're doing really well!  All I had to critique were anatomical details, you are doing great with the sketch technique. (:

--

krahhl - I noticed that you had put in some effort to add some shading to your sketch.  I did a little paintover showing roughly how I would do things, bearing in mind the same lightsource.  You were definitely on the right track, I just think you could go further with it.  (:  (Though obviously, at this stage, it's not a great idea to go too far with shading).

 

Shadow is obviously an excellent tool for defining shape and muscle structure.  Don't be afraid to define that muscle and irregularities in the creature's build.

Now, for the sketch itself, you did a great job this time of defining the skeleton -- but I'd like to see you push a bit further.  The one thing you're really missing here is a spine.  The spine is near the very top of the creature's build, not through the center.  In addition, spines don't usually dip so sharply between the shoulder and hip area, and in fact tend to be fairly flat in most creatures.  I made a little paintover for you, showing a more viable-looking torso build.


Remember that everything is connected -- the neck to the shoulders, the shoulders to the hips -- nothing is separate.  It's all part of one body. 

Anyway, nice improvement from the last sketch -- keep it up!  C:

--

Okay, now I apologize to the remaining three of you, but I am absolutely exhausted and need to head to bed.  Vrt has told me that he will be coming around shortly to give the rest of you critiques.  (:

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Re: Lesson 3: Back to Basics http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=18798.msg241978#msg241978
« Reply #19 on: January 06, 2011, 10:57:01 pm »
Here we go then!

SunnyGreens: The green shapes in the paintover are very rough muscle definitions; especially in active poses, muscles define the look of a creature. As for the rest; no critique on the fat guy. It's a fantastic sketch.

Malduk: I'll grab the paintover right away, it'll make my explanation more clear.


I think your main flaw was trying to apply a cougar's physical shape to this creature; their build is so different, that there's barely any comparison. As you'll note from the paintover; I left him bipedal. With the extra joint in the arms, I doubt he could ever run on four legs..

The issue mostly is that there isn't a good line to the skeleton; it doesn't really flow. A few more minutes spent reworking the 'foundation' would've really gone a long way to the look of the guy; given him a much better read. A bit more definition in the muscle setup, could've also given you the framework to draw a bit more detail into his muscles - since he's bare, the more the better!

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Everyone involved: I'm very proud of what's been done this lesson. Hats off.
So long and thanks for all the fish!

Offline ratcharmer

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Re: Lesson 3: Back to Basics http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=18798.msg241995#msg241995
« Reply #20 on: January 06, 2011, 11:15:00 pm »
The creature seemed very bird like to me, and I interpereted the sycthe-limbs as vestigal wings, so I tried to play off that a bit more.

I gave him a beak, talons for feet and messed with the legs.

(http://imageplay.net/view/m7Gbd118385/bird_hybrid001)

SunnyGreens

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Re: Lesson 3: Back to Basics http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=18798.msg242196#msg242196
« Reply #21 on: January 07, 2011, 04:07:35 am »
I tried giving him some chest muscles but ran out of time.

Sketch #4:

Offline bored_ninja777

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Re: Lesson 3: Back to Basics http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=18798.msg242225#msg242225
« Reply #22 on: January 07, 2011, 05:23:55 am »
attempt 3
a more refined skeleton and hopefully better on the angle.. i made the feet/hands angled little to help show depth and also the face is still turned but the rest is a back view.
my best so far i think. the tail is much better and flowing with the spine. it seems like this pose is more like it is climbing up a cliff kind of thing.
(http://imageplay.net/)
~McPasty was here~

Krahhl

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Re: Lesson 3: Back to Basics http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=18798.msg242774#msg242774
« Reply #23 on: January 08, 2011, 12:49:45 am »
Thanks, pepokish, for pointing out the error in my spine.

I do like using shading to define some shapes, as it is more believable than just lines. However, I don't really make it more than just that: believable. Filling the image with different shades of color, leaving only the lightest parts white, would be time consuming and isn't the focus of this lesson.

Though I did do a bit more in this sketch.


I think I actually should've shaded more on the right side of the hip and shoulder. The skeleton covers what I have.

I'm also not satisfied with the right wing. It should look like it curves forward/down more.

 

anything
blarg: