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Offline Aves

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Re: The True Mono Other https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=31532.msg487484#msg487484
« Reply #24 on: April 25, 2012, 11:13:06 pm »
Show me the broken, overpowered cards here.
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Offline whatifidogetcaught?

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Re: The True Mono Other https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=31532.msg487491#msg487491
« Reply #25 on: April 25, 2012, 11:20:53 pm »
It's all in the fun to make random decks, and see them work to perfection! If it's broken, then that's too bad. Besides, he didn't make an Arena deck.
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Offline ARTHANASIOS

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Re: The True Mono Other https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=31532.msg487726#msg487726
« Reply #26 on: April 26, 2012, 10:11:23 am »
Show me the broken, overpowered cards here.

 First of all, the "broken" and "overpowered" words were used here with a little exaggeration. The problem is not that the cards are broken as a single, but the overall system tha makes them broken. Upgraded rare shards like Shard of Divinity and Shard of Sacrifice are not very powerful if used once, but filling your deck with 6 SoSa and 6 SoD makes it really overpowered. Shard of Sacrifice is okay to block you for 2 turns (or even 4 turns) and replace your damage with healing, but if abused and used 3, 4, 5 or 6 times in a game it makes healing for 6, 8, 10, 12 turns which is rediculous. You don't except anyone to have Shards of Patience or Sundials or Antimatters to prevent their creatures from attacking or healing their SoSa opponent, do you? And since 99% of decks need to deal a great amount of damage with creatures each turn in order to win, there always will be lot of strong creatures to heal you. What's more, Shard of Divinity can be used to both heal you and to extend your max health, making it excellent supplement for SoSa (just don't use them when SoSa is activated).
 Shard of Void is not overpowered, since it doesn't inflict great "damage", same goes with Shard of Gratitude, since it doesn't heal you so much and they are both permanents, so they can be dealt with PC. However, a lot of them together provide too much "damage" or healing and since they stack (something that other  permanents like Bonds and Sanctuaries don't do) they can protected by a single Enchant/Protect Artifact. One or two SoV or SoG is not something broken, but, like the other two shards, they become ridiculously powerful when lots of them are out there, especially if Enchanted/Protected.
 The fact I like in Elements and which I didn't found in other TCG (like MagicTG or Yu-Gi-Oh) is the lack of powerful ultra rare cards with which you can fill your deck and defeat a much better player than you just because you have a broken deck while your opponent has a normal one. Elements is the most balanced TCG I know, but if decks like this keeps coming, then Elements will slowly but surely lose its balance and it will become another I-have-a-deck-full-of-broken-rare-cards-so-I-win card game. I don't want to see Elements becoming like that...
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Offline glennfoo

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Re: The True Mono Other https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=31532.msg487885#msg487885
« Reply #27 on: April 26, 2012, 05:47:58 pm »
Frankly speaking. I am afraid the elementsthegame is going in this direction also. then it is no different like yugi-oh or some other card games
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Offline Aves

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Re: The True Mono Other https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=31532.msg487953#msg487953
« Reply #28 on: April 26, 2012, 08:11:39 pm »
Yellow = Aves
Red/Grey= ARTHANASIOS
First of all, the "broken" and "overpowered" words were used here with a little exaggeration. The problem is not that the cards are broken as a single, but the overall system tha makes them broken. Upgraded rare shards like Shard of Divinity and Shard of Sacrifice are not very powerful if used once, but filling your deck with 6 SoSa and 6 SoD makes it really overpowered. Shard of Sacrifice is okay to block you for 2 turns (or even 4 turns) and replace your damage with healing, but if abused and used 3, 4, 5 or 6 times in a game it makes healing for 6, 8, 10, 12 turns which is rediculous. You don't except anyone to have Shards of Patience or Sundials or Antimatters to prevent their creatures from attacking or healing their SoSa opponent, do you? Depends on the deck, of course, but why not?- , you yourself have just listed 3 counters to SoX, and all of that is without the purify buff. And since 99% of decks need to deal a great amount of damage with creatures each turn in order to win, there always will be lot of strong creatures to heal you.Depends on the deck you face. You'll probably win against a shrieker rush, but pestal? Or what about that speedbow that gets 50 damage by turn 3 and sweeps through your SoX draws? There's a lot more than creature spamming decks out there, and a lot of instances where this can fail easily.  What's more, Shard of Divinity can be used to both heal you and to extend your max health, making it excellent supplement for SoSa (just don't use them when SoSa is activated).
 Shard of Void is not overpowered, since it doesn't inflict great "damage", same goes with Shard of Gratitude, since it doesn't heal you so much and they are both permanents, so they can be dealt with PC. However, a lot of them together provide too much "damage" or healing and since they stack (something that other  permanents like Bonds and Sanctuaries don't do) they can protected by a single Enchant/Protect Artifact. One or two SoV or SoG is not something broken, but, like the other two shards, they become ridiculously powerful when lots of them are out there, especially if Enchanted/Protected. By your logic, one or two [Most cards] is not broken, but when we see like 6, it's broken because 6 [most cards] can [be powerful]. SoV is useless unless you base your entire strategy around it, and is easily countered by stoneskin or shard of divinity in addition to its incredible slowness. I'd also be disinclined to say that SoG is OP, even if you have 6 protected ones.
 The fact I like in Elements and which I didn't found in other TCG (like MagicTG or Yu-Gi-Oh) is the lack of powerful ultra rare cards with which you can fill your deck and defeat a much better playerI agree on this point, but here's a question: What are upped cards, but powerful, hard to get cards? The point is that synergies are synergies, and that if the individual components are not OP, then why is this deck OP? than you just because you have a broken deck while your opponent has a normal one. Elements is the most balanced TCG I know, but if decks like this keeps coming, then Elements will slowly but surely lose its balance and it will become another I-have-a-deck-full-of-broken-rare-cards-so-I-win card game. I don't want to see Elements becoming like that...

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Offline ARTHANASIOS

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Re: The True Mono Other https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=31532.msg488013#msg488013
« Reply #29 on: April 26, 2012, 10:23:19 pm »
^ A card game's balance is a really sensitive thing. In order to keep a game balanced, you do not only need to keep individual cards non-broken but to keep them of producing overpowered-broken combos too. It is ok if a duelist thinks hard and creates a nice and powerful combination, but if this combo has something outrageous then it is broken. Many card games fail to this point, since it is much more difficult for the game designers to detect broken combinations than noticing broken cards, however Elements team has done a wonderful job this far; Elements has as few flaws as my hand's fingers, which is amazingly few for a TCG. But the point is to keep it balanced until the end. It is obvious that Shards were designed as rare and powerful artifacts and this alone creates a challenge in keeping them a little stronger than other common cards without making them broken. If the Elements crew are not careful, then some OP combos with Shards (or other cards) may ruin the game. Shard of Sacrifice and Shard of Focus are two well-known "broken" shards within this community and there should be more playtesting with them (Shard of Focus is still in testing, along with Shard of Freedom and Shard of Bravery, but SoSa should be still tested and modified a little bit, according to my opinion always).
 I do not try to say that Elements is broken, I try to warn the community that the danger of ruining the balance increases dramatically with every new card introduced, so extra caution is required and I do not think the team is as cautious as they should be.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2012, 10:25:19 pm by ARTHANASIOS »
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Offline AP579

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Re: The True Mono Other https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=31532.msg488030#msg488030
« Reply #30 on: April 26, 2012, 10:44:52 pm »
SoFo is out now, in case you were wondering.
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Re: The True Mono Other https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=31532.msg488043#msg488043
« Reply #31 on: April 26, 2012, 10:52:44 pm »
^ A card game's balance is a really sensitive thing. In order to keep a game balanced, you do not only need to keep individual cards non-broken but to keep them of producing overpowered-broken combos too. It is ok if a duelist thinks hard and creates a nice and powerful combination, but if this combo has something outrageous then it is broken. Many card games fail to this point, since it is much more difficult for the game designers to detect broken combinations than noticing broken cards, however Elements team has done a wonderful job this far; Elements has as few flaws as my hand's fingers, which is amazingly few for a TCG. But the point is to keep it balanced until the end. It is obvious that Shards were designed as rare and powerful artifacts and this alone creates a challenge in keeping them a little stronger than other common cards without making them broken. If the Elements crew are not careful, then some OP combos with Shards (or other cards) may ruin the game. Shard of Sacrifice and Shard of Focus are two well-known "broken" shards within this community and there should be more playtesting with them (Shard of Focus is still in testing, along with Shard of Freedom and Shard of Bravery, but SoSa should be still tested and modified a little bit, according to my opinion always).
 I do not try to say that Elements is broken, I try to warn the community that the danger of ruining the balance increases dramatically with every new card introduced, so extra caution is required and I do not think the team is as cautious as they should be.

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Re: The True Mono Other https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=31532.msg488094#msg488094
« Reply #32 on: April 26, 2012, 11:50:53 pm »
Doesn't Dirk do 6 damage with a mark of death/darkness? And it's free.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2012, 03:20:59 am by Annele »
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Re: The True Mono Other https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=31532.msg488173#msg488173
« Reply #33 on: April 27, 2012, 02:37:13 am »
Doesn't Dirk do 6 damage with a mark of death? And it's free.

Actually, yeah. Good point.
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Re: The True Mono Other https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=31532.msg488174#msg488174
« Reply #34 on: April 27, 2012, 02:38:59 am »
Doesn't Dirk do 6 damage with a mark of death? And it's free.

Actually, yeah. Good point.
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Offline AP579

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Re: The True Mono Other https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=31532.msg488182#msg488182
« Reply #35 on: April 27, 2012, 02:49:11 am »
It's 5 damage, but it is strong for a 0 cost card. Too bad it just plain sucks compared to cheap weapons like vampire or arsenic because it has 1 HP for flying and has no ability.
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