Post by: Sevs on October 11, 2011, 09:12:55 pm
"Back in the ancient silurian age of the the 2 turn sundial, great dragons roamed. using innovative shard technology, the specimen of a single dragon, and a decendant of the 2 turn sundial (the 1 turn sundial), elementalists were able to create another equally overpowered deck"
Upgrade Order
Dragon, SN are absolutely required. The rest of the upgrade order should be
Hourglasses --> Time towers --> Skyblitz -->Shards of Readiness--> Mitosis --> Chimera --> Sundial
Combos
-Option 1: Silurian Dragon --> Mitosis --> SoR --> SoR --> SoR --> SoR --> SkyBlitz --> ~Chimera
Optimal method: Pros: Does not need Chimera against any DR shield Cons: Chance to eat your quanta for Sky Blitz
-Option 2: Silurian Dragon --> Mitosis --> SoR --> SoR --> SoR --> SkyBlitz --> SoR --> ~Chimera
Quanta scarce method: Pros: Less of a chance to eat your Sky Blitz quanta Cons: Needs Chimera against any DR shield
~=optional
*Liquid Shadow no longer gives EM's as of 1.293
- You can discard Chimera if your opponent doesnt have Bonewall, haxx, or dissipation shield, or gravity pulled Armagio or Chimera essentially making it a 7 card combo
- you can start chaining sundials as soon as you have 1 hourglass out and isnt in danger of PC
- draw out explosions, steals with sundials and towers
- against gods with no CC, you can play the combo early and sky blitz when you get enough damage
- Decay, Darkmatter, and Dream Catcher are pretty much autoquits but the rest should have a decent chance
-TTW should be around 9-10 if not you are doing something wrong
- you can start chaining sundials as soon as you have 1 hourglass out and isnt in danger of PC
- draw out explosions, steals with sundials and towers
- against gods with no CC, you can play the combo early and sky blitz when you get enough damage
- Decay, Darkmatter, and Dream Catcher are pretty much autoquits but the rest should have a decent chance
-TTW should be around 9-10 if not you are doing something wrong
Akebono - Easy - Need Chimera - Start Sundial chain above 50 HP because of Titan. an early SoF is probably game over.
Chaos Lord - Hard - Need Chimera - For some reason I also face a mutant with steal/destroy. Draw out PC before sundial is played
Dark Matter - Impossible - Well 2 BH's and you cant win.
Decay - Hard - Get SN off fast and hope he doesnt drain too much.
Destiny - Easy - No Chimera - you can wait to chain Sundials ~25 because Eternity does 4 damage a turn
Divine Glory - Medium - No Chimera - Hope there are no fire towers, draw out PC with sundials or extra hourglasses. Tip: with explosion nerf 1 tower fuels explosion every 2 turns so plan accordingly
Dream Catcher - Hard - No Chimera - Devourers drain quanta, discord messes with quanta, BE destroys all stalling. If you can get off first SN you might have a chance.
Elidnis - Easy - No Chimera - No PC, Chain sundials around ~30 HP
Eternal Phoenix - Medium - No Chimera - If you draw out PC, you will do fine. Chain around ~50 HP because of fire lances and lightning
Ferox - Easy - No Chimera - Chain sundials around ~30 HP
Fire Queen - Easy - No Chimera - Chain sundials around ~50 HP because of lances and 7 attack weapon
Gemini - Easy - No Chimera - Chain sundials around ~30 HP
Graviton - Easy - Chimera needed if gravity pulled armagio - Only 4 explosion in 70 cards test with sundial before spamming hourglasses
Hecate - Medium - Chimera Needed - Damage from Rage Pots, Liquid Shadow, Weapon, and Nightmare, with 4 steals. Chain sundials around ~60 HP
Hermes - Medium - No Chimera - 12 explosions 12 lances nuff said Chain Sundials ~60HP
Incarnate - Easy - Chimera Needed - Chain sundials around ~30 HP
Jezebel - Medium - No Chimera - Steals keep sundial stasis, but Siphon Life, Gravity and Air Nymphs are dangerous. The more towers stolen, the less likely you see those nymphs
Lionheart - Easy - No Chimera - Chain sundials around ~30 HP. Watch out for mass endowment or creature spam from hourglasses
Miracle - Easy - No Chimera - Chain sundials around ~30 HP.
Morte - Easy - Chimera Needed - Chain sundials around ~70 HP. Draw fast as poison is deadly.
Neptune - Easy - No Chimera - Chain sundials around ~50 HP. 7 attack weapon and 4 damage shockwaves are your only concern
Obliterator - Medium - No Chimera - Chain sundials around ~50 HP. Draw fast before Pulverizer appears. If it shows up play all sundials next turn to get whatever draws you can.
Octane - Hard - No Chimera - Chain sundials when first owls eye is flown. You can usually draw through the deck before Octane gets enough Unstable Gas.
Osiris - Easy - No Chimera - Chain sundials around ~60 HP. Start chain early because trebuchets do a bit of damage. SoF could be troublesome.
Paradox - Easy - No Chimera - Chain sundials around ~30 HP. If Morning Glory appears early, chain a little earlier.
Rainbow - Hard - No Chimera - Chain sundials When first hourglass is in play.
Scorpio - Medium - No Chimera - Chain sundials when 2 non Physalia creatures hit the field. Hope you can outdraw the poison damage
Seism - Easy - No Chimera - Chain sundials around ~30 HP. With so little pillars feel free to play multiple Time Towers in a stack. Be stingy with the time quanta. at most play 2 hourglasses. try to discard the other 2 unless you have sufficient quanta.
Serket - Medium - No Chimera - Chain sundials when you get around ~6 poison This one is decided in the first 2-3 turns, if you get an hourglass out early you win, if not you are in for some trouble.
Chaos Lord - Hard - Need Chimera - For some reason I also face a mutant with steal/destroy. Draw out PC before sundial is played
Dark Matter - Impossible - Well 2 BH's and you cant win.
Decay - Hard - Get SN off fast and hope he doesnt drain too much.
Destiny - Easy - No Chimera - you can wait to chain Sundials ~25 because Eternity does 4 damage a turn
Divine Glory - Medium - No Chimera - Hope there are no fire towers, draw out PC with sundials or extra hourglasses. Tip: with explosion nerf 1 tower fuels explosion every 2 turns so plan accordingly
Dream Catcher - Hard - No Chimera - Devourers drain quanta, discord messes with quanta, BE destroys all stalling. If you can get off first SN you might have a chance.
Elidnis - Easy - No Chimera - No PC, Chain sundials around ~30 HP
Eternal Phoenix - Medium - No Chimera - If you draw out PC, you will do fine. Chain around ~50 HP because of fire lances and lightning
Ferox - Easy - No Chimera - Chain sundials around ~30 HP
Fire Queen - Easy - No Chimera - Chain sundials around ~50 HP because of lances and 7 attack weapon
Gemini - Easy - No Chimera - Chain sundials around ~30 HP
Graviton - Easy - Chimera needed if gravity pulled armagio - Only 4 explosion in 70 cards test with sundial before spamming hourglasses
Hecate - Medium - Chimera Needed - Damage from Rage Pots, Liquid Shadow, Weapon, and Nightmare, with 4 steals. Chain sundials around ~60 HP
Hermes - Medium - No Chimera - 12 explosions 12 lances nuff said Chain Sundials ~60HP
Incarnate - Easy - Chimera Needed - Chain sundials around ~30 HP
Jezebel - Medium - No Chimera - Steals keep sundial stasis, but Siphon Life, Gravity and Air Nymphs are dangerous. The more towers stolen, the less likely you see those nymphs
Lionheart - Easy - No Chimera - Chain sundials around ~30 HP. Watch out for mass endowment or creature spam from hourglasses
Miracle - Easy - No Chimera - Chain sundials around ~30 HP.
Morte - Easy - Chimera Needed - Chain sundials around ~70 HP. Draw fast as poison is deadly.
Neptune - Easy - No Chimera - Chain sundials around ~50 HP. 7 attack weapon and 4 damage shockwaves are your only concern
Obliterator - Medium - No Chimera - Chain sundials around ~50 HP. Draw fast before Pulverizer appears. If it shows up play all sundials next turn to get whatever draws you can.
Octane - Hard - No Chimera - Chain sundials when first owls eye is flown. You can usually draw through the deck before Octane gets enough Unstable Gas.
Osiris - Easy - No Chimera - Chain sundials around ~60 HP. Start chain early because trebuchets do a bit of damage. SoF could be troublesome.
Paradox - Easy - No Chimera - Chain sundials around ~30 HP. If Morning Glory appears early, chain a little earlier.
Rainbow - Hard - No Chimera - Chain sundials When first hourglass is in play.
Scorpio - Medium - No Chimera - Chain sundials when 2 non Physalia creatures hit the field. Hope you can outdraw the poison damage
Seism - Easy - No Chimera - Chain sundials around ~30 HP. With so little pillars feel free to play multiple Time Towers in a stack. Be stingy with the time quanta. at most play 2 hourglasses. try to discard the other 2 unless you have sufficient quanta.
Serket - Medium - No Chimera - Chain sundials when you get around ~6 poison This one is decided in the first 2-3 turns, if you get an hourglass out early you win, if not you are in for some trouble.
Some variations that give significant win % increases against certain gods.
Purify(Scorpio, Serket)
Extra tower (Akebono, Gemini, Osiris)
Protect Artifact (Seism, Jezebel)
Phase Shield (Destiny, Ferox, Fire Queen, Elidnis, Lionheart, Miracle, Neptune, Paradox)
Purify(Scorpio, Serket)
Extra tower (Akebono, Gemini, Osiris)
Protect Artifact (Seism, Jezebel)
Phase Shield (Destiny, Ferox, Fire Queen, Elidnis, Lionheart, Miracle, Neptune, Paradox)
7 Turn Win (Paradox)
(http://i.imgur.com/ExfoX.png)
Courtesy of Odii Odsen, a Dark Matter win
(http://localhostr.com/file/uOLxJU8/darkmatter.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/ExfoX.png)
Courtesy of Odii Odsen, a Dark Matter win
(http://localhostr.com/file/uOLxJU8/darkmatter.jpg)
| deck | Instosis |
| players | Sevs |
| version | 1.291 | win-rate | 67% | ||
| $ track ? | enabled | win-rate (n) | 67.68% | ||
| games | 200 | Score/h | 1147 | ||
| win-loss-(EM) | 134-66-(3) | Score/h (n) | 1165 | ||
| time (h:m:s) | 07:46:55 | FGei[c]* (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,14626.0.html) | 10231 | ||
| min/game | 02:20 | FGei[cn]* (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,14626.0.html) | 10327 |
| score/h | FGei(c) | Statmasta™realtec | wins | losses | skips | EM/Wins |
| 1800 326 -21600 -21600 1705 745 -21600 1787 192 1592 1457 1738 693 968 409 1468 1578 1893 1468 855 1688 2096 -175 2009 1747 -61 1309 938 1135 | 16708 4461 -21600 -21600 12039 11092 -21600 10550 5895 11669 12319 13355 7414 9571 4810 11609 14490 13021 9932 6712 12337 13614 4123 15805 12884 2740 8891 8123 10045 | Akebono Chaos Lord Dark Matter Decay Destiny Divine Glory Dream Catcher Elidnis Eternal Phoenix Ferox Fire Queen Gemini Graviton Hecate Hermes Incarnate Jezebel Lionheart Miracle Morte Neptune Obliterator Octane Osiris Paradox Rainbow Scorpio Seism Serket | 6 4 9 6 5 3 10 5 10 5 2 2 5 5 3 4 3 11 3 1 6 8 2 7 3 6 | 6 5 6 1 4 1 3 1 1 2 1 4 6 1 1 3 | 6 7 7 | 1 1 1 |
Post by: Chapuz on October 11, 2011, 09:20:14 pm
I'm not a fan of SN decks, but it's rate is awsome as it seems :o
Isn't better having unupped dials, so the mulligan isn't screwed with them?
Post by: 10 men on October 11, 2011, 09:23:19 pm
Post by: Higurashi on October 11, 2011, 10:05:14 pm
Post by: Jenkar on October 11, 2011, 11:13:04 pm
Post by: loadquo on October 11, 2011, 11:52:29 pm
And Yay stats :)
Here is a minimally upped variant.
The dragon needs to be upped as do the SNs and the hourglasses. Air pillar to protect against the more hungry SoRs.
Post by: Sevs on October 12, 2011, 01:38:36 am
Lost a bit in Trainer getting used to it, but having 8 26|4 Silurians on Ferox on turn 9 was a nice moment. I tend to get my hand clogged with HG's and struggling to get enough :time in time (heh), but 4 is nice for draw consistency. Might try 3.Sometimes it feels like there are too many and i force a discard of one, but i like the fact that you can wait a few turns and spam 2 hourglasses and a sundial against PC gods. I would be interested to see how that 3 hourglass experiment will work out.
This seems a lot better than my precog variant (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32122.0.html) against FGs without PC. I did the math and yeah extra SN are better than QTs for providing the air quanta. I wonder if it would be worthwhile having an air pillar in.wow very similar deck and i guess you inspired the change in the limitless thread so credit is deserved.
And Yay stats :)
Here is a minimally upped variant.
The dragon needs to be upped as do the SNs and the hourglasses. Air pillar to protect against the more hungry SoRs.
Post by: Amilir on October 12, 2011, 01:45:59 am
Post by: Terroking on October 12, 2011, 01:55:56 am
Win rate is, obviously, not quite so high as 80% but having nearly 3x the speed makes up for it many times over.
I expect a nerf to Mitosis+SoR, as with triplet Dejas, triplet Dragons seems far too good.
Post by: furballdn on October 12, 2011, 01:56:26 am
This seems a lot better than my precog variant (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32122.0.html) against FGs without PC. I did the math and yeah extra SN are better than QTs for providing the air quanta. I wonder if it would be worthwhile having an air pillar in.What's the stats of this one?
And Yay stats :)
Here is a minimally upped variant.
The dragon needs to be upped as do the SNs and the hourglasses. Air pillar to protect against the more hungry SoRs.
Post by: Chapuz on October 12, 2011, 01:59:25 am
wow very similar deck and i guess you inspired the change in the limitless thread so credit is deserved.Actually, it was a very talked combo in the beta sections before 1.29 came out. Max Fire suggested the 1st version i saw and i just put it in my thread.
I think not much, as you need 5/6 SN instear of 4. In this version, upped Chimera and Ske Blitz are quite important.This seems a lot better than my precog variant (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32122.0.html) against FGs without PC. I did the math and yeah extra SN are better than QTs for providing the air quanta. I wonder if it would be worthwhile having an air pillar in.What's the stats of this one?
And Yay stats :)
Here is a minimally upped variant.
The dragon needs to be upped as do the SNs and the hourglasses. Air pillar to protect against the more hungry SoRs.
Post by: YoungSot on October 12, 2011, 04:03:51 am
Post by: WakSkylicker on October 12, 2011, 04:47:47 am
Post by: YoungSot on October 12, 2011, 05:13:07 am
Very nice ;) Currently, I'm running it with + 1 Liquid Shadow, and its working great for EMs!Yeah I'm experimenting with LS too. Spins are the biggest part of FG farming, so EMs aren't worth it if it lowers the win rate much. But it's just one card, and it makes EMs so easy. We should probably start some actual stats with LS to compare to the original.
Post by: Vineroz on October 12, 2011, 05:26:45 am
Some other gods are definitely harder imo, e.g. Octane can kill in 6 turns easily, Hermes with early explosion can kill too.
Post by: BluePriest on October 12, 2011, 05:27:52 am
Post by: dragonsdemesne on October 12, 2011, 05:35:10 am
I draw Sky Blitz.
8)
A 338 attack Chimera immediately followed...
On to the third game :D This deck is funny :p
Post by: willng3 on October 12, 2011, 05:38:14 am
Then I noticed the overwhelming number of praise replies that appeared in such a short amount of time and decided to go FG hunting for the first time in waaaay too long.
Here's my impression of the deck after 11 games (feel free to facepalm with me at the play mistakes):
Game 1: Jezebel. Loss
Stole everything like the kleptomaniac she is. Then she got an early Amber Nymph...you can probably deduce the rest.
Game 2: Rainbow Loss
One of those games where Rainbow decided to draw every bit of PC zanz ever invented. Funny how it seemed to use Steals on Hourglass and Explosions on Sundials as well...
Game 3: Serket Loss - Playing mistake
Normal Serket duel. Average amount of quanta early, creatures soon after. I started trying to chain Sundial way too soon and didn't draw any to save me from the Poison damage. You can really tell it's been too long since I've decided to grind FGs >_>
Game 4: Ferox Win
Easy, easy duel. Just chained Sundials and drew cards like normal. Deck played out to perfection.
Game 5: Obliterator Loss
Pulvy on turn 2, but the real problem was that I couldn't draw Mitosis because it was the very last card in my deck.
Game 6: Jezebel Loss
So close! Everything was going perfectly until the second to last turn she activates BH from her Gravity Nymph. This wasn't going to be a problem at first because I still had another SN to draw to give me more than enough quanta to play everything...but then SoR decided to steal 2 :air meaning that I couldn't Sky Blitz.
Game 7: Destiny Win
Easy. Fate Eggs said hello, started Sundial chaining. Close to an EM, but an Eternity decided to show its trollface to stop this. Mitosis was the last card in my deck again, but I had plenty of stall power to make this inconsequential.
Game 8: Destiny Loss - Playing mistake
Yeah, this was embarrassing. Perfect duel until I decided to try and win a turn sooner by playing a Sundial from my hand and taking a chance to draw my 4th SoR. It worked! So then I went off without thinking and set off the entire combination, ending with a Chimera. Then when I end my turn I notice my Chimera doesn't attack. Turns out that Sundial stops your creatures too; convenient time to not pay attention to this *facedesk* Destiny then rewound my Chimera, causing me to quit.
Game 9: Ferox Loss - Playing mistake
Needed another Sundial but couldn't draw it in time. I probably could have won had I not started chaining Sundials too early
Game 10: Paradox Win
Easy duel. Sundial chain broke a time or two, but Paradox's damage output was too low for it to matter.
Game 11: Decay Loss
Tried playing it through just for the heck of it...denied my :entropy with a single Pest and then played two more Pests the turn after. I quit immediately.
All in all, if I wasn't so rusty with FG grinding I would have been much more successful. It probably takes a few more games to get the Sundial timing down, but after that I'd imagine it to be a walk in the park. I would easily recommend this to anyone looking for a fun, effective, and fast FG grinder.
Post by: dragonsdemesne on October 12, 2011, 06:48:36 am
Post by: Sevs on October 12, 2011, 07:33:23 am
Instosis sounds better as a name...I like that name too. Done
It probably takes a few more games to get the Sundial timing down, but after that I'd imagine it to be a walk in the park. I would easily recommend this to anyone looking for a fun, effective, and fast FG grinder.I second this
Post by: Elite arbiter on October 12, 2011, 07:38:56 am
This deck's main boon is consistency and that it functions reliably and as such you almost never get screwed by bad luck, which gives it near 100% wins against many false gods, and although the skips aren't as much "you have only a slim chance" as "You lose. Period." you're skipping them anyway.
Also, as a tip, don't be afraid in certain circumstances once you think about it to play more than 1 sundial at once. Just keep count how many you have left, if you have the proper hourglass and dial count you can draw through your entire deck without needing all 6 turns of protection.
Post by: BloodlinE on October 12, 2011, 07:54:00 am
i was using your deck and i liked it. i was able to make my own version :D.
unupped sundials doesnt screw mulligan so thats that there is a 100% chance where you draw a pend.
with that percentage you can actually get a 2nd turn SN or a first turn SN. but the instosis deck haz 3rd turn sn.
with the 2nd turn SN you can use your sundialz for drawing power :D
so far 74% win rate atm :D
Post by: Rastafla on October 12, 2011, 08:42:19 am
Post by: Sevs on October 12, 2011, 08:50:00 am
So far the mulligan hasn't really been an issue for me because there are 6 towers and 10 drawing sources. And I also chose the Entropy mark because you dont need an early SN, chances are you shouldnt be stalling before turn 3.
i was using your deck and i liked it. i was able to make my own version :D.
unupped sundials doesnt screw mulligan so thats that there is a 100% chance where you draw a pend.
with that percentage you can actually get a 2nd turn SN or a first turn SN. but the instosis deck haz 3rd turn sn.
with the 2nd turn SN you can use your sundialz for drawing power :D
so far 74% win rate atm :D
Also upped sundials keep your time quanta from being overused. They probably work better in your version because you dont need the quanta to support 4 hourglasses.
Post by: Essence on October 12, 2011, 09:46:06 am
Post by: BloodlinE on October 12, 2011, 12:36:16 pm
yes i know.upped sundials might work but that makes your initials draw moar bad. since you can draw all sundials and no entropy pends which turns into discarding :). acctually i had a 9 turn win with this deck :D. +a 1st turn hourglass.that makes the deck moar faster.So far the mulligan hasn't really been an issue for me because there are 6 towers and 10 drawing sources. And I also chose the Entropy mark because you dont need an early SN, chances are you shouldnt be stalling before turn 3.
i was using your deck and i liked it. i was able to make my own version :D.
unupped sundials doesnt screw mulligan so thats that there is a 100% chance where you draw a pend.
with that percentage you can actually get a 2nd turn SN or a first turn SN. but the instosis deck haz 3rd turn sn.
with the 2nd turn SN you can use your sundialz for drawing power :D
so far 74% win rate atm :D
Also upped sundials keep your time quanta from being overused. They probably work better in your version because you dont need the quanta to support 4 hourglasses.
Post by: Demagog on October 12, 2011, 01:27:12 pm
Post by: BluePriest on October 12, 2011, 02:40:28 pm
Post by: MartyrX on October 12, 2011, 03:17:12 pm
Post by: BluePriest on October 12, 2011, 03:42:02 pm
Akebono-dont hold me to this, but I believe he doesnt use acceleration on your creatures. You should be able to play both your dragon, and start the combo as soon as you want. IF someone knows differently let me know.
Divine Glory
Ferox
Gemeni-This is a mixed bag. DO NOT use mitosis until you can pull of the combo since there is a lobo. If you play your monster, then she will start chaining her phase shields making you have to use chimera. Ultimately its up to you how you do it. Its probably better to not play it so you can ditch the chimera.
Miracle
Paradox
Serket
Overall it wont make too much of a difference, but I thought Id mention them. I was bored.
Post by: Higurashi on October 12, 2011, 05:18:11 pm
Akebono-dont hold me to this, but I believe he doesnt use acceleration on your creatures. You should be able to play both your dragon, and start the combo as soon as you want. IF someone knows differently let me know.If the target does enough damage to be deemed a threat against his current HP, or has low enough HP for him to deem it worth removing the skill, he'll use Overdrive offensively. He shouldn't use it on Silurian due to the 4 HP. It may happen when he's low on HP (<100), but by then he should be very close to dead anyway.
Instosis? Sounds like a disease. :-\
Post by: Chapuz on October 12, 2011, 05:38:13 pm
Post by: YoungSot on October 12, 2011, 06:11:24 pm
Instosis? Sounds like a disease. :-\Yeah I agree the name could still be improved. It should reflect the feel of the deck, flying through your deck to suddenly burst at the last possible second. It should be called:
RAINBOW DASH!
:P
Post by: Higurashi on October 12, 2011, 06:14:58 pm
Also, this is truly ridiculously profitable. 5 fast wins in a row has me convinced. Only downside is not being mindless.
Post by: Pineapple on October 12, 2011, 06:17:07 pm
Post by: Chapuz on October 12, 2011, 06:35:25 pm
Would you recommend (taking something out for) adding an LS when using it against arena?If you find a way to make a 7 card combo that makes 200 damage with Chimera included, of course xD
Post by: Higurashi on October 12, 2011, 06:42:18 pm
Post by: Demagog on October 12, 2011, 07:01:59 pm
Post by: BluePriest on October 12, 2011, 07:35:58 pm
Post by: dragonsdemesne on October 12, 2011, 07:48:40 pm
Don't forget, if you happen to fall below 8 air quanta you might be screwed. Supernovas are required.That happened to me once :p I was playing the SoRs and it took away too much air quanta >:D
Liquid Shadow would be a nice addition but I have absolutely no idea what to take out in its place, so I haven't been using it.
Post by: YoungSot on October 12, 2011, 07:49:31 pm
I think it would work fine -1 Hourglass. Im playing the almost completely unupped variant, and With 1 less hourglass (and 1 that isnt upgraded so its almost worthless) I am having no problem. Of course that may just be because I dont realize how big of a difference the extra one makes though.For farming FGs (with the fully upped version), I can usually guess how well I'm gonna do in a game based on how many HG I get in my starting hand, and the games I lose have thus far always been the ones where I don't get many. So in my experience they are not the card you want to trim out.
Post by: Higurashi on October 12, 2011, 07:52:49 pm
But yeah, I'd remove a Tower. Dial is the second choice.
Post by: Nepycros on October 12, 2011, 08:04:21 pm
Post by: Sevs on October 12, 2011, 08:05:45 pm
Heh, I was one turn from losing to Gemini, but my 4 SoR's didn't even touch my 8 :air. Niiiiice.I forgot to screen shot but I had a game vs divine glory where I was about to lose and just for fun, played half of the combo with chimera and since it gravity pulled most of the damage from the flying glories, I won. Most bizarre and unexpected win I have ever had happen
But yeah, I'd remove a Tower. Dial is the second choice.
Post by: 10 men on October 12, 2011, 08:07:32 pm
I'm currently trying a version with Time mark and Entropy Pends, the idea here is that the AI likes to blow up pends a lot more than pillars, so it might do better against PC.
Post by: Pineapple on October 12, 2011, 08:09:21 pm
i was using your deck and i liked it. i was able to make my own version :D.
unupped sundials doesnt screw mulligan so thats that there is a 100% chance where you draw a pend.
with that percentage you can actually get a 2nd turn SN or a first turn SN. but the instosis deck haz 3rd turn sn.
with the 2nd turn SN you can use your sundialz for drawing power :D
so far 74% win rate atm :D
Post by: GG on October 12, 2011, 09:02:25 pm
Post by: Sevs on October 12, 2011, 09:40:51 pm
This deck wouldn't have been possible without Chimera. ALL BOW DOWN IN FRONT OF GRAVITYYou are right we should nerf it.
Post by: BluePriest on October 12, 2011, 09:46:09 pm
This deck wouldn't have been possible without Chimera. ALL BOW DOWN IN FRONT OF GRAVITYI actually cant help but wonder if Id have a better win rate replacing the chimera with something like an hourglass, or an explosion/steal to take away the permanent that is causing me trouble.
Post by: Higurashi on October 12, 2011, 09:47:24 pm
Post by: Chapuz on October 12, 2011, 09:54:31 pm
lulz, with only 3½ half FG's needing Chimera, I've also pondered replacing it to free up room for drawing.Why 3 and 1/2? Morte, Scorpio, Gemini and....?
Post by: pikachufan2164 on October 12, 2011, 09:54:46 pm
This deck wouldn't have been possible without Chimera. ALL BOW DOWN IN FRONT OF GRAVITYOnly because Chimera nerfs hax shields ::) Probably still useful in Arena, since people are more likely to use Fog, Dusk, Dim, Diss Shields, and Bone Walls there.
@10 men's idea
Another legit PSNbow FG farmer :D
Also, switching up the quanta configuration will give you a chance against Decay and Arena decks that can pull out a very early denialpest. The only potential problem is that the :time quanta production might be barely enough to squeak by after factoring in for all those Hourglasses. (Add unupped Panda or Antimatter to use up that extra :entropy quanta? Panda might be a bit better, since Sundial chains interfere with Antimatter healing.)
Akebono (GPull + Armagios), Graviton (GPull + Armagios), Incarnate (Bone Wall), Hecate (Dusk Shield), Decay (Dusk Shield, but impossible with the Time Tower build). (Scorpio has no Bone Walls)lulz, with only 3½ half FG's needing Chimera, I've also pondered replacing it to free up room for drawing.Why 3 and 1/2? Morte, Scorpio, Gemini and....?
Post by: TheForbiddenOracle on October 12, 2011, 11:02:15 pm
Why Scorpio?lulz, with only 3½ half FG's needing Chimera, I've also pondered replacing it to free up room for drawing.Why 3 and 1/2? Morte, Scorpio, Gemini and....?
Incarnate, Gemini, Morte, and Decay with his "50%" blocking shield
Post by: Higurashi on October 12, 2011, 11:06:34 pm
Post by: Dogg on October 13, 2011, 12:56:35 am
Post by: BloodlinE on October 13, 2011, 01:04:56 am
Post by: dragonsdemesne on October 13, 2011, 01:06:55 am
This deck wouldn't have been possible without Chimera. ALL BOW DOWN IN FRONT OF GRAVITYI want a foil Chimera now, just for this deck.
Post by: jippy99 on October 13, 2011, 01:17:31 am
Post by: Elite arbiter on October 13, 2011, 01:33:40 am
Akebono (GPull + Armagios), Graviton (GPull + Armagios), Incarnate (Bone Wall), Hecate (Dusk Shield), Decay (Dusk Shield, but impossible with the Time Tower build). (Scorpio has no Bone Walls)Complete List
Akebono (Armagio)
Chaos Lord (Dissipation Shield)
Decay (Dusk)
Graviton (Armagio)
Hecate (Dusk)
Incarnate (Bonewall)
Morte (Bonewall)
Obliterator (Titanium Shield + G-pulled Bassalt Dragon) **I don't know if the AI can play G-Pull without the threat of damage on the board though, but Titanium lowers it to 207 damage (23x9) and then the dragon eats one of the 23's away.
So it helps against multiple gods, although some of them are skips. I don't count Gemini since his shield won't be played if there's no risk of damage.
Post by: YoungSot on October 13, 2011, 01:38:46 am
Obliterator (Titanium Shield + G-pulled Bassalt Dragon) **I don't know if the AI can play G-Pull without the threat of damage on the board though, but Titanium lowers it to 207 damage (23x9) and then the dragon eats one of the 23's away.Yeah he can play GP without damage on the board. I actually lost to him once for that exact reason when I didn't notice the gravity pulled one.
Post by: Sevs on October 13, 2011, 02:10:47 am
Complete ListI have never seem obliterator do that before then again Obliterator is the only one preventing me from giving nromalized stats because through 150 games, I have only come across him once
Akebono (Armagioand chimera)
Chaos Lord (Dissipation Shield)
Decay (Dusk)
Graviton (Armagio)
Hecate (Dusk)
Incarnate (Bonewall)
Morte (Bonewall)
Obliterator (Titanium Shield + G-pulled Bassalt Dragon) **I don't know if the AI can play G-Pull without the threat of damage on the board though, but Titanium lowers it to 207 damage (23x9) and then the dragon eats one of the 23's away.
So it helps against multiple gods, although some of them are skips. I don't count Gemini since his shield won't be played if there's no risk of damage.
Post by: mycale on October 13, 2011, 03:18:28 am
(BTW, first time beating Divine Glory and Rainbow, thanks to this deck).
Post by: Essence on October 13, 2011, 05:37:20 am
Post by: Rastafla on October 13, 2011, 09:48:51 am
Yep. I think this deck is the perfect midline between RoL/Hope and Shakar's. It's going to be the killer app of 1.29 unless it gets nerfed. Well done. :)It have to be. Its what i called a "stalled rush" just as with that cloak deck in the last version before ai was fixed. This winrate is insane.
Post by: Higurashi on October 13, 2011, 12:17:00 pm
About Oblit: he does not. Armagio is the only Gravy Farce that's used unconditionally. Outside of that card, they need to have sustained heavy damage, just like with Overdrive. The Chimera list in the OP is correct.Akebono (GPull + Armagios), Graviton (GPull + Armagios), Incarnate (Bone Wall), Hecate (Dusk Shield), Decay (Dusk Shield, but impossible with the Time Tower build). (Scorpio has no Bone Walls)Complete List
Akebono (Armagio)
Chaos Lord (Dissipation Shield)
Decay (Dusk)
Graviton (Armagio)
Hecate (Dusk)
Incarnate (Bonewall)
Morte (Bonewall)
Obliterator (Titanium Shield + G-pulled Bassalt Dragon) **I don't know if the AI can play G-Pull without the threat of damage on the board though, but Titanium lowers it to 207 damage (23x9) and then the dragon eats one of the 23's away.
So it helps against multiple gods, although some of them are skips. I don't count Gemini since his shield won't be played if there's no risk of damage.
Also, I'm sad TU doesn't copy the readiness state. Would've been less risky, what with SoR's taking :air.
Post by: Chapuz on October 13, 2011, 01:02:57 pm
Also, I'm sad TU doesn't copy the readiness state. Would've been less risky, what with SoR's taking :air.If I am correct, that's a bug:
It happens because the PU and TU skill has a common internal function (code) with Deja-Vu (skill). Deja-Vu makes an active 0 cost skill disappear from the 2nd creature (the 1st creature is another story), PU/TU does the same. Deja-Vu skill was nerfed for being over-powered, but TU is not so it musn't be nerfed that way.
Post by: Higurashi on October 13, 2011, 01:29:45 pm
Meanwhile, here's my first Decay matchup since I started playing Kamikaze Toothbrushes two days ago:
(http://i.imgur.com/LCz66.jpg)
He's Easy to Medium if you get Snovas going. His start was pretty fast, but I got enough Towers. I got 7 Blitzing Dragons out when he had no Duck and let him Siphon a couple the next turn before going Chimera on his Duck ass for the 2KO.
Took 8 turns. For some reason I'm not winning any cards today though, despite almost only winning. ::)
Edit: got him again. Got Snovas off again, but bottomdecked Mitosis. One thing's for sure: I'm not skipping him :>
Hm.. DC dead in 9 turns after two Decays:
(http://i.imgur.com/CcZaR.jpg)
I'm 1-1 against him now in total. His BH came after my 5 Dragons were out, and he only pulled one Elixir. Due to the sheer speed of this deck, I'm probably only gonna skip DM. Not that I've met him yet.
And while we're on the topic of FG difficulty, I'm 1-3 on Octane. Too much drawing killed by Explosions and fast Gasses and EE's. Judging from my past experience with him, he had average to slightly over average draws, so I guess I'd peg him at Hard.
This is how I finally managed to beat him in 7 turns:
(http://i.imgur.com/9lnq1.png)
Protecting myself with Chimera was my only chance at winning, and I was only lucky he didn't have any Lances. So. Close.
Post by: YoungSot on October 13, 2011, 01:55:59 pm
I wonder what happened in my game then. I have no memory of playing damage early, but it was definitely GF that stopped me, so I guess that's the only possibility.About Oblit: he does not. Armagio is the only Gravy Farce that's used unconditionally. Outside of that card, they need to have sustained heavy damage, just like with Overdrive. The Chimera list in the OP is correct.Akebono (GPull + Armagios), Graviton (GPull + Armagios), Incarnate (Bone Wall), Hecate (Dusk Shield), Decay (Dusk Shield, but impossible with the Time Tower build). (Scorpio has no Bone Walls)Complete List
Akebono (Armagio)
Chaos Lord (Dissipation Shield)
Decay (Dusk)
Graviton (Armagio)
Hecate (Dusk)
Incarnate (Bonewall)
Morte (Bonewall)
Obliterator (Titanium Shield + G-pulled Bassalt Dragon) **I don't know if the AI can play G-Pull without the threat of damage on the board though, but Titanium lowers it to 207 damage (23x9) and then the dragon eats one of the 23's away.
So it helps against multiple gods, although some of them are skips. I don't count Gemini since his shield won't be played if there's no risk of damage.
Post by: Higurashi on October 13, 2011, 01:58:14 pm
Post by: loadquo on October 13, 2011, 02:31:58 pm
I did suggest a nerfing (+1 activation rather than set to 2) in the card change thread. Which would kill this FG killing strat, but I think still make it somewhat useful.
Edit: Oh and I think the reason that PU doesn't work with readiness is the general "new creature does not get to perform actions this turn" code. I.e. summoning sickness.
Post by: Higurashi on October 13, 2011, 02:41:59 pm
It doesn't affect PvP much. OTK decks are nice, but this one is optimal only when upped, where there were already other options that are almost as fast, but more reliable and durable (more CC/defence).
Post by: TStar on October 13, 2011, 04:32:16 pm
Post by: YoungSot on October 13, 2011, 04:43:36 pm
I wouldn't recommend using this as an Arena deck. It's been pretty terrible in Platinum and Gold the last couple days, lower win rate for me than a standard mono-gravity deck or discord/BH variant even.I've been using it in plat and while it's not often consistent enough to get a rare spin, with LS for EMs it's still been quite profitable.
But plat decks definitely tend to have an annoying number of counters to this, what with the many BHs, heavy PC, high damage Fahrens, nightmares, etc.
It really does it's best work killing FGs with ease and speed.
Post by: Elite arbiter on October 13, 2011, 05:52:33 pm
SoR removes summoning sickness. The fact that the new creature isn't ready doesn't seem logical judging from general game mechanics.It isn't logical but it'd make farming with this deck even better, and I'm not sure thats safe.
Normal: Drag + Mito + 4xSoR + Sky Dive + (Optional Chimera) 7 ( 8 ) cards.
Twin Universe: Drag + Mito + 2xSoR + TU + Sky Dive + (Optional Chimera) 6 (7) cards.
Thing is, twin universe with the 'generates 2 times' thing would let it create 3 dragons. 8 * 26 is over 200, so while the chimera is still needed... this becomes a 6 possibly 7 card combo instead of a 7 possibly 8 card combo. And I imagine giving this deck another Time Factory to kill bad draws would be dangerous, as well as ease of keeping stuff in your hand.
Post by: Sevs on October 13, 2011, 07:39:47 pm
I am pretty sure TU gives something summoning sickness. From my days with IGT, when you PU a flying eternity , you have to wait a turn before using its ability.SoR removes summoning sickness. The fact that the new creature isn't ready doesn't seem logical judging from general game mechanics.It isn't logical but it'd make farming with this deck even better, and I'm not sure thats safe.
Normal: Drag + Mito + 4xSoR + Sky Dive + (Optional Chimera) 7 ( 8 ) cards.
Twin Universe: Drag + Mito + 2xSoR + TU + Sky Dive + (Optional Chimera) 6 (7) cards.
Thing is, twin universe with the 'generates 2 times' thing would let it create 3 dragons. 8 * 26 is over 200, so while the chimera is still needed... this becomes a 6 possibly 7 card combo instead of a 7 possibly 8 card combo. And I imagine giving this deck another Time Factory to kill bad draws would be dangerous, as well as ease of keeping stuff in your hand.
Might be unintended behaviour. It'll get nerfed anytime now anyway x)Against Dream Catcher I know is it possible but it seems every single time I face him, he pulls a pest, discord and BE in the first 2 turns preventing me from SNing. Same with decay. Only decay always manages to fractal early not letting be skyblitz. I guess it is just my luck.
Meanwhile, here's my first Decay matchup since I started playing Kamikaze Toothbrushes two days ago:
(http://i.imgur.com/LCz66.jpg)
He's Easy to Medium if you get Snovas going. His start was pretty fast, but I got enough Towers. I got 7 Blitzing Dragons out when he had no Duck and let him Siphon a couple the next turn before going Chimera on his Duck ass for the 2KO.
Took 8 turns. For some reason I'm not winning any cards today though, despite almost only winning. ::)
Edit: got him again. Got Snovas off again, but bottomdecked Mitosis. One thing's for sure: I'm not skipping him :>
Hm.. DC dead in 9 turns after two Decays:
(http://i.imgur.com/CcZaR.jpg)
I'm 1-1 against him now in total. His BH came after my 5 Dragons were out, and he only pulled one Elixir. Due to the sheer speed of this deck, I'm probably only gonna skip DM. Not that I've met him yet.
And while we're on the topic of FG difficulty, I'm 1-3 on Octane. Too much drawing killed by Explosions and fast Gasses and EE's. Judging from my past experience with him, he had average to slightly over average draws, so I guess I'd peg him at Hard.
This is how I finally managed to beat him in 7 turns:
(http://i.imgur.com/9lnq1.png)
Protecting myself with Chimera was my only chance at winning, and I was only lucky he didn't have any Lances. So. Close.
As for octane, I wrote that after winning the first game, now I am at 1-4 which is my worst winrate other than the 3 "skips" so i wil change that
Post by: mycale on October 14, 2011, 08:43:42 pm
Post by: omegareaper7 on October 14, 2011, 09:05:59 pm
Octane isn't that hard. I just rush sundials and hope I have enough quanta at the end. I am 2-4 with him (in contrast to 0-5 with Jezebel and 1-4 with Seism, which should be easier). Any suggestions against those two?For seism, just hope he doesn't get many earthquakes and only play a tower at a time, two if you want to risk it. I beat him the one time i played him.
Post by: Dark Weaver on October 14, 2011, 09:46:16 pm
Anyway don't play more then 1 tower at a time unless he has no earthquake and you feel lucky, you need those time quantas. Don't abuse of hourglasses and do not put more then 2 on the field. If one or two towers can survive some turns it should be ok.
I have a positive score vs him (something like 5-3 or 6-4) but I wouldn't call him easy, too many earthquake or too little towers at start and you can't put the dragon and because you cannot build your time quanta you must use the hourglasses wisely and thus not spamming them -> sundials must be well distributed to survive.
I had no luck against jezebel so far and I’m 2-1 against octane. I tried to play against decay after reading Higurashi's post, it is 1-2 so far, the 2 loses where quick because of entropy denial, the win was because I had a hand with 3 super novas and I could play them.
Post by: Sevs on October 15, 2011, 12:54:27 am
I am currently 5-0 with jezebel lol. and 3-1 with seismOctane isn't that hard. I just rush sundials and hope I have enough quanta at the end. I am 2-4 with him (in contrast to 0-5 with Jezebel and 1-4 with Seism, which should be easier). Any suggestions against those two?For seism, just hope he doesn't get many earthquakes and only play a tower at a time, two if you want to risk it. I beat him the one time i played him.
For Jezebel play pillars and dont play anything else. Jezebel is pretty slow in damage buildup so dont be afraid of taking your time. After she has wasted a a couple steals on towers, play as many hourglasses as you can in that turn. then your 2-5 card draw per turn should be enough to outdraw the rest of her steals.
Against seism, I usually just play at max 2 hourglasses instead of all 4 in most games, try and discard (through not using SN) 2 hourglasses and chimera. That should keep you good enough in time quanta.
Post by: frlaa on October 15, 2011, 10:44:30 pm
Post by: Sevs on October 15, 2011, 10:55:01 pm
do you have to draw as much as possible ? because my hand is almost always full. Wouldnt precog be better than hourglasses?you should draw as much as possible till you get down to the last 5-10 cards, then check to see you will get enough time quanta to play the dragon and draw through the rest of your deck on the same turn. stall with sundials if you realize you wont have enough time quanta left
Post by: frlaa on October 15, 2011, 11:02:02 pm
Post by: Sevs on October 15, 2011, 11:21:00 pm
OK thanks. But what about precogs?I find the precog version leaves your sundials to take all the pc preventing you from stalling against gods like DG, hermes, and EP. I also feel that precogs dont have the same drawing power that hourglasses do. in some games a single hourglass will have more draws that all 6 precogs.
Post by: Higurashi on October 15, 2011, 11:25:13 pm
Post by: loadquo on October 15, 2011, 11:29:34 pm
Post by: Max Fire on October 15, 2011, 11:42:23 pm
Here is my version :
I added 1 Electrum Hourglass and 1 time tower in comparison to the original version.
To have tested this deck, thius version is very more reliable beside the original.
Now, I have no problems to get early Electrum Hourglasses and time quanta to launch the combo.
I think this version allows to get a better win ratio.
Test it and have fun ;)
Post by: Chapuz on October 16, 2011, 12:50:55 am
I've got some problems to get early electrum hourglasses.What are Sundials for in a deck with more than 30 cards?
Here is my version :
I added 1 Electrum Hourglass and 1 time tower in comparison to the original version.
To have tested this deck, thius version is very more reliable beside the original.
Now, I have no problems to get early Electrum Hourglasses and time quanta to launch the combo.
I think this version allows to get a better win ratio.
Test it and have fun ;)
Post by: Xenocidius on October 16, 2011, 12:58:27 am
Post by: MartyrX on October 16, 2011, 05:58:49 am
Post by: frlaa on October 16, 2011, 01:47:06 pm
Post by: agentflare on October 16, 2011, 02:02:46 pm
68.5% win rate.
SoR is totally getting nerfed because of this, but nice job Sevs!
Post by: frlaa on October 16, 2011, 03:48:35 pm
Post by: Sevs on October 16, 2011, 07:20:15 pm
Post by: loadquo on October 17, 2011, 04:12:02 pm
* It'd get you some non-time quanta using protection for your other permanents
* It might allow two turn kills with non-miracle non-PC FGs with CC
But I can't figure out what to take out.
Post by: MartyrX on October 17, 2011, 08:30:47 pm
Post by: furballdn on October 18, 2011, 01:17:01 am
Post by: Kardo on October 19, 2011, 11:43:17 am
Post by: Elite arbiter on October 19, 2011, 11:58:10 am
Just as a noting feature for people that worried about it, and a helpful tip in general. You get 234 with the classic layout of 9 dragons after 4 SoR's, each dragon diving for 26. However if you're worried about your Sky Dive quanta, you can technically get away with something provided you have chimera or your opponent has no defenses.
Silurian + Mitosis + SoR + SoR + SoR + Sky Dive + SoR.
This leaves you with 7 dragons diving and 2 not, but it lets you play your sky dive before that last SoR to decrease the necessity to bank on luck not draining that needed quanta.
26x7 (182) + 13x2 (26) = 208
Enjoy.
Ps: This is the same mechanic that lets you get away with only 3 SoR's if you play your dragon 1 turn early.
Post by: Dark Weaver on October 19, 2011, 02:41:05 pm
[12 :air] = 99.8 %
[10 :air] = 92.8 %
[8 :air] = 35.2 %
If one color is depleted (let’s say time ;))
[12 :air] = 96.5 %
[10 :air] = 87.9 %
[8 :air] = 31.9 %
Don't be too worry to cast it with 12 or 10 :air quanta.
Post by: Sevs on October 19, 2011, 08:12:48 pm
Silurian + Mitosis + SoR + SoR + SoR + Sky Dive + SoR.I have actually done that a few times but you are right it is a good tip. The problem though is if you dont have chimera even a 1 damage shield stops the combo. Ill add it though
This leaves you with 7 dragons diving and 2 not, but it lets you play your sky dive before that last SoR to decrease the necessity to bank on luck not draining that needed quanta.
26x7 (182) + 13x2 (26) = 208
Enjoy.
Ps: This is the same mechanic that lets you get away with only 3 SoR's if you play your dragon 1 turn early.
Post by: TheForbiddenOracle on October 21, 2011, 09:32:00 pm
Post by: Sevs on October 22, 2011, 06:40:40 am
I don't see how you can wait til 30hp to start chaining sundials since by that point the poison damage alone would kill you in a turn or two...*Is confused* where does it say chain at 30HP for a poison God?
Post by: TheForbiddenOracle on October 22, 2011, 04:12:49 pm
*Facepalm* was looking at SeismI don't see how you can wait til 30hp to start chaining sundials since by that point the poison damage alone would kill you in a turn or two...*Is confused* where does it say chain at 30HP for a poison God?
Post by: Gertful on October 23, 2011, 07:36:18 pm
Post by: xsindomanx on October 23, 2011, 10:43:21 pm
After a bit of practice so that you know how to time your sundials, it really works like a miracle,
(5 upped cards in 20 min!)
Also works very good with arena gold and platinum, though it is very weak against PC.
An extra tower might help from time to time
@elite arbiter's suggestion (didn't want to quote as it's really big): That is a good suggestion. In one of my first games, I had just used all my SORs to get the dragons, and clicked sky blitz, only to find that I only had 7 air quarta remaining due to the SORs.
Post by: dragonsdemesne on October 29, 2011, 01:08:38 am
Post by: Jocko on October 30, 2011, 10:38:54 pm
Post by: Sevs on October 30, 2011, 10:53:47 pm
Well, the EM variant (-1 hg, +1 ls) got nerfed, now vampires heal after the damage is done, so you won't em with a big bad vampiric chimera.
Damn :/ I guess it is a good thing i dont use that variant. But i guess the best news out of this is the fact that SoR wasnt nerfed :)
Post by: furballdn on October 31, 2011, 12:20:58 am
Sssssh! Not so loud! He'll hear you and nerf it! I don't want one of the greatest FG killers to be nerfed before I get a chance trying it out!Well, the EM variant (-1 hg, +1 ls) got nerfed, now vampires heal after the damage is done, so you won't em with a big bad vampiric chimera.
Damn :/ I guess it is a good thing i dont use that variant. But i guess the best news out of this is the fact that SoR wasnt nerfed :)
Post by: ninetyfools on October 31, 2011, 12:22:39 am
Agreed ;D ;DSssssh! Not so loud! He'll hear you and nerf it! I don't want one of the greatest FG killers to be nerfed before I get a chance trying it out!Well, the EM variant (-1 hg, +1 ls) got nerfed, now vampires heal after the damage is done, so you won't em with a big bad vampiric chimera.
Damn :/ I guess it is a good thing i dont use that variant. But i guess the best news out of this is the fact that SoR wasnt nerfed :)
Post by: Higurashi on October 31, 2011, 12:51:37 am
Post by: Sevs on October 31, 2011, 01:16:49 am
Post by: willng3 on October 31, 2011, 02:06:34 am
Well, you could always try it in Trainerwaaaaaitaminute.. it's down :cIt lives :D!
Not really sure if this helps anyone else, but against Seism unless I get 3+ Towers in my hand I play Towers one at a time and never activate/play Hourglasses unless my :time quanta exceeds the amount I need to play the remaining SN in my deck and then the Dragon. So in other words, with 4 SN left in my deck I never let my :time go below 4. Again, not sure how useful this is but after facing Seism 9 times today I've lost twice.
Also, that SoR + SoR + SoR + Sky Blitz + SoR combo is really useful. I'm actually so paranoid about the SoR taking my quanta that I do this any time I have less than 11 :air remaining after the 3rd SoR.
Post by: Jocko on October 31, 2011, 04:45:16 pm
Post by: xsindomanx on November 03, 2011, 04:57:33 am
Post by: mwaetht on November 03, 2011, 05:09:10 am
I doubt it'd help much; by the time I get all the combo cards I've already usually played 5xSupernovas already, and relying on a single tower for :air quanta is NOT a good idea.
Post by: Brontos on November 04, 2011, 06:28:34 pm
Just to spare other noobs some moments of solitude while playing this deck.
- Chimera can't attack under Sundial.
- Chimera doesn't fly.
;D
Post by: Orichalcum on November 05, 2011, 06:08:18 pm
Quote
- Chimera doesn't fly.Indeed it doesn't. Found that out the hard way and lost.
Other than that mishap, this is an awesome deck in trainer & even works with 3 SoR. Haven't found my 4th one yet :(
Post by: Sevs on November 05, 2011, 06:25:00 pm
I guess you could do it with 3 SoR and a TU but you would have to use chimera much more frequentlyQuote- Chimera doesn't fly.Indeed it doesn't. Found that out the hard way and lost.
Other than that mishap, this is an awesome deck in trainer & even works with 3 SoR. Haven't found my 4th one yet :(
Post by: Colossus on November 05, 2011, 07:04:22 pm
By the way, thanks for the deck Sevs, finally re-interested in FG grinding!
Post by: Brontos on November 06, 2011, 02:45:04 am
Post by: Dr. Jekyl on November 06, 2011, 07:25:03 am
Post by: lion34 on November 06, 2011, 07:00:57 pm
and this deck inspired me to make Pvp2-deck (link below)
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,33412.0.html
its still in deck help-cathegory :D
Post by: Sevs on November 06, 2011, 08:47:54 pm
This deck is simply awesome. for example today I played about 20 games about FGs and won 18, lost 2 (to dream cather and decay because of butterfly effect and quanta control)From playing PvP 2 I know Polder has created a pretty succesful Pvp version which i believe is -2 SoR +2 Precog. Hope that 90% win rate continues
and this deck inspired me to make Pvp2-deck (link below)
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,33412.0.html
its still in deck help-cathegory :D
Post by: kurathedog on November 08, 2011, 03:29:29 am
thank you random pvp person for letting me know this deck exists (after some crazy disconnecting stuff).
Protip: Use sundials to draw first, in case you need to pop the combo early. Lost a win that way.
Post by: furballdn on November 08, 2011, 03:59:57 am
Post by: Colossus on November 09, 2011, 02:19:47 am
Sometimes I dislike how close my time quantum is in the beginning game, but after that it's great!
Just won 3 deju-vu's from Paradox in my three spin chances.
Post by: Sevs on November 09, 2011, 07:11:01 am
I wonder if a couple people could test this mod out. +2 Hourglass +3 Time Towers
Fatstosis
Through around 20 games it doesn't seem to be much slower ~9-10 ttw and seems to get less no tower draws.
I figure the more hourglasses will give better chances vs single card PC but will hurt chances vs repeatable PC (Oblit and DC)
Post by: bmd on November 09, 2011, 09:00:48 am
Post by: Rember on November 09, 2011, 10:04:02 am
Finally found a version I like:
Works much better than original IMO, since that has the same chance to get sundial as tower in opening hand and that screwed me way more than anything the fgs ever did.
Post by: JonathanCrazyJ on November 09, 2011, 04:46:37 pm
Post by: omegareaper7 on November 09, 2011, 08:23:39 pm
after trying both versions, i feel strongly that +1 hourglass, +1 tower is more stable, and actually feels faster because i feel less tentative playing multiple hourglasses. GREAT deck, here's hoping it lasts another patch with no nerfs :)4 is already almost to many, 5 just hurts it.
Post by: Holokausti on November 11, 2011, 11:36:00 am
Post by: s0n1k on November 13, 2011, 06:06:34 am
Post by: ninetyfools on November 13, 2011, 01:21:33 pm
This is proably the best FG farmer ever!!!!!!It is. And it BETTER NOT BE NERFED BEFORe I even got the chance to PLAY IT!!!
(Hint:Dont nerf it.) ^-^
Post by: xsindomanx on November 13, 2011, 07:15:06 pm
But be aware that some of the 'medium' gods, the ones with PC can destroy you quickly without giving you much to draw.
Post by: Khaalis on November 18, 2011, 08:15:03 am
Post by: pikachufan2164 on November 18, 2011, 08:18:57 am
FYI - I have run into a new bug (posted in the bug thread). I have seen it in a few different fights now while playing this deck. I play the 9 dragons and a sky blitz in the last round against an FG with no Shards and no regeneration cards in play. They start out at 200 health, the dragon rush is supposed to deal 234 damage. However, the FG's life goes down part way and then suddenly turns around and regenerates the other half of the damage dealt. This is very annoying, turning what should have been an easy win into an instant lose. Has anyone else seen this?Which FG were you playing against?
What other cards are in play? There might have been a Dusk Shield -- they have a 50% chance of fully blocking each attack. Gravity Pulled creatures also stop your creatures from fully damaging the opponent.
Was one or more of the Dragons hit with Antimatter? Those heal back the opponent when the creature attacks.
Post by: Khaalis on November 18, 2011, 09:47:37 am
Which FG were you playing against?Last 1 in specific was Fire Queen. No regens out and 1 Fire Shield., None of my creatures went into play until the final round when I attacked. I cast everything as a single round attack.
What other cards are in play? There might have been a Dusk Shield -- they have a 50% chance of fully blocking each attack. Gravity Pulled creatures also stop your creatures from fully damaging the opponent.
Was one or more of the Dragons hit with Antimatter? Those heal back the opponent when the creature attacks.
Post by: TheForbiddenOracle on November 18, 2011, 10:32:49 pm
? FQ has no shieldsWhich FG were you playing against?Last 1 in specific was Fire Queen. No regens out and 1 Fire Shield., None of my creatures went into play until the final round when I attacked. I cast everything as a single round attack.
What other cards are in play? There might have been a Dusk Shield -- they have a 50% chance of fully blocking each attack. Gravity Pulled creatures also stop your creatures from fully damaging the opponent.
Was one or more of the Dragons hit with Antimatter? Those heal back the opponent when the creature attacks.
Post by: Khaalis on November 18, 2011, 11:46:07 pm
Post by: bmd on November 20, 2011, 09:15:14 am
FYI - I have run into a new bug (posted in the bug thread). I have seen it in a few different fights now while playing this deck. I play the 9 dragons and a sky blitz in the last round against an FG with no Shards and no regeneration cards in play. They start out at 200 health, the dragon rush is supposed to deal 234 damage. However, the FG's life goes down part way and then suddenly turns around and regenerates the other half of the damage dealt. This is very annoying, turning what should have been an easy win into an instant lose. Has anyone else seen this?I haven't seen this happen. Did you make sure to sky blitz after all 9 dragons are out? Fire Queen can heal back all the damage with bonds if you don't kill her in one turn.
Post by: Pineapple on November 20, 2011, 09:33:24 am
Post by: Sevs on November 23, 2011, 07:49:37 pm
- I seem to run into SoSac too much so antimatter essentially gives you the win there
- and quanta denial is harsh. hence the Sanc.
The sanc sometimes interferes with your light quanta for sundial drawing but not most of the time. It has given me the win on multiple occasions though. the drawing power helps to draw the single copy though.
Are there any other cards I could add in?
Or maybe a better pvp version would be more stable like this? so you dont get quanta locked by a single pest?
or less SN and no skyblitz
Opinions?
Post by: Odii Odsen on November 23, 2011, 11:26:00 pm
With Instosis
Post by: Sevs on November 24, 2011, 01:27:01 am
(http://localhostr.com/file/uOLxJU8/darkmatter.jpg)...wow
With Instosis
Post by: Colossus on November 24, 2011, 06:11:16 am
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff36/Quincy05_87/ChaosLordEMInstosis01.jpg)
Post by: taker on November 24, 2011, 03:31:03 pm
(http://localhostr.com/file/uOLxJU8/darkmatter.jpg)nice
With Instosis
Post by: JonathanCrazyJ on November 24, 2011, 03:47:21 pm
(http://localhostr.com/file/uOLxJU8/darkmatter.jpg)That's impressive, well done :) but i'd still skip it if farming.. you might be able to win 1 in 10 but thats still worthy of a skip in my book.
With Instosis
Post by: Plantifant on November 24, 2011, 04:59:55 pm
So I have been working on a PvP version of this deck but havent found anything significant. I am hoping one of you guys could help me out.For pvp, no sky blitz is an option, but in Arena you'll need it, because most people have more than 100 hp.
- I seem to run into SoSac too much so antimatter essentially gives you the win there
- and quanta denial is harsh. hence the Sanc.
The sanc sometimes interferes with your light quanta for sundial drawing but not most of the time. It has given me the win on multiple occasions though. the drawing power helps to draw the single copy though.
Are there any other cards I could add in?
Or maybe a better pvp version would be more stable like this? so you dont get quanta locked by a single pest?
or less SN and no skyblitz
Opinions?
You'll still need 2 turns though.
Post by: Colossus on November 25, 2011, 05:38:51 am
(http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff36/Quincy05_87/LionheartEMInstosis01.jpg)
Post by: hell7fire1 on December 07, 2011, 04:52:43 pm
Would this work with liquid shadowTm :darkness for an EM ?
Post by: Higurashi on December 07, 2011, 05:03:40 pm
This change was part of fixing a bug where Antimatter allowed you to stay alive against otherwise lethal damage. It applies to all vampiric damage.
Post by: tsgreen on December 11, 2011, 10:59:39 am
Post by: Sevs on December 11, 2011, 10:45:21 pm
Thank you for building this deck! It has got me a lot of FG wins.You are very welcome gad you are enjoying it
Post by: Celiel on December 13, 2011, 11:54:50 pm
Time to continue the grind
Post by: Kurohami on December 14, 2011, 11:16:34 pm
Post by: burpcow on December 15, 2011, 12:10:51 am
Post by: RammsteiH on December 19, 2011, 08:08:32 am
Post by: Jenkar on December 19, 2011, 09:29:31 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/WmyLd.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/1CziB.png)
Yo dawg, i heard you like speed, so i put em in your speed so you em while you speed and speed while you em.
Post by: Chapuz on December 20, 2011, 04:33:58 am
Post by: furballdn on December 20, 2011, 05:33:52 am
Post by: Chapuz on December 20, 2011, 05:12:09 pm
Add sanctuary?Strategy, i have moded it enough xD
There are not so much ghostmare style decks un the arena so sanctuary can worth it. Same with BH decks.
Post by: Sevs on December 20, 2011, 11:02:34 pm
Post by: Chapuz on December 20, 2011, 11:20:25 pm
Since Notp usually has steals Sanc probably isn't the greatest counter. There are just some decks that this deck simply can't beat. especially in arena. Good news is that this usually beats the Purify, healing, SoSac decks and even outrushes most poison decks. Arena winrate is probably 25-30% nothing spectacular but some quick games and a possible spin every once in a while"If you want rare spins, go bronze grinding." By Chapuz.
Post by: DoubleCapitals on December 23, 2011, 07:58:06 am
Post by: ralouf on December 23, 2011, 08:44:44 am
Post by: Violenceisanart on December 23, 2011, 11:21:24 pm
Post by: Chapuz on December 24, 2011, 01:10:51 am
I spent an insane amount of time trying to build this deck, now hardly ever use it....it's decent for FG's but the PVP metagame seems to be countering decks like this and SPlatDeck counters:
- Hich PC being a bit rushy
- Silence or sundial played on the last turn (never happens)
- Black hole
- turn 1/2 pest sucking entropy quanta
- Discord with bad luck
- Ghostmare
- Not many more
Many decks in PVP, silver, gold and play high PC decks, ghostmares and ninja pest decks, that's why this deck works mostly against FGs and
Post by: nco on December 24, 2011, 05:20:14 pm
I only play this deck to farm gold and platinium arena league , I have mass coins , just went into platinium league myself !! and many of the new shards.
Post by: Chapuz on December 24, 2011, 05:58:49 pm
This deck is simply insane , I play the version with 4 electrum hourglass and no sundial , + two sanctuary to counter ghostmare and it rocks .Please explain your version:
I only play this deck to farm gold and platinium arena league , I have mass coins , just went into platinium league myself !! and many of the new shards.
-2 sundial, +2 sanctuaries?
Post by: ralouf on December 25, 2011, 09:38:08 pm
Post by: ashashin on December 25, 2011, 10:06:13 pm
i didnt up all of the cards and i still (barely) beat hecate (didnt win anything tho)
i had to discard my chimera lucky no hax shield
Post by: Chapuz on December 26, 2011, 05:00:54 pm
Post by: DoubleCapitals on December 27, 2011, 02:44:38 am
Easy : you copy paste the code behind the deck imageTo clarify, i mean getting the cash, the cards and the rares.
Post by: TheForbiddenOracle on December 27, 2011, 03:58:40 am
You grind, just search for tutorials on the forumEasy : you copy paste the code behind the deck imageTo clarify, i mean getting the cash, the cards and the rares.
Post by: Vago on December 27, 2011, 09:34:36 pm
I was a bit worried about the shards draining away my quanta below the 8 Air Quanta needed to Sky Blitz but that hasn't happened once .
/jumps on the bandwagon .
Post by: ashashin on December 28, 2011, 08:52:59 pm
Post by: Jenkar on December 28, 2011, 08:57:17 pm
qq doesnt gemini hav phase shield so you need chimera?He won't play it till you have damage on the field. Keepin' dragon in hand is key der.
Post by: Sevs on December 30, 2011, 11:22:42 pm
You should pur [Platinum] in the thread name, as it is giving my new account LOTS of rare spins.I think [Arena] suffices. and arena is so inconsistant you never know which league it will be better for.
This deck is simply insane , I play the version with 4 electrum hourglass and no sundial , + two sanctuary to counter ghostmare and it rocks .This sounds interesting to say the least. I tried it with -6 sundial +2 sanc +1 time tower +2 time pends + hourglass. defintely a different experience.
I only play this deck to farm gold and platinium arena league , I have mass coins , just went into platinium league myself !! and many of the new shards.
Post by: furballdn on December 31, 2011, 01:15:16 am
Post by: burpcow on December 31, 2011, 01:28:10 am
If one was to build this deck, what would be the upgrade order?I would say... sundials-shards-dragon-hourglasses-towers-skyblitz, mitosis & chimera.
Post by: Sevs on December 31, 2011, 02:32:19 am
Dragon, SN are absolutely required. The rest of the upgrade order should beIf one was to build this deck, what would be the upgrade order?I would say... sundials-shards-dragon-hourglasses-towers-skyblitz, mitosis & chimera.
Hourglasses --> Time towers --> Skyblitz -->Shards of Readiness--> Mitosis --> Chimera --> Sundial
Post by: pulli23 on December 31, 2011, 03:44:15 am
Post by: furballdn on December 31, 2011, 03:48:41 am
Aye, that's what I've been thinking. Sundials can even be unupped so they don't mess with the mulligan.Dragon, SN are absolutely required. The rest of the upgrade order should beIf one was to build this deck, what would be the upgrade order?I would say... sundials-shards-dragon-hourglasses-towers-skyblitz, mitosis & chimera.
Hourglasses --> Time towers --> Skyblitz -->Shards of Readiness--> Mitosis --> Chimera --> Sundial
Post by: Chapuz on December 31, 2011, 01:03:13 pm
When I tried it, some times I started with 1 tower and other times the first tower came in the 3rd turn.
Post by: coldfusion on December 31, 2011, 10:41:20 pm
- 2 hourglasses
+ 1 time pillar
+ 1 phase shield
I always get clogged up with too many hourglasses in my hand and time quanta is more often than not in short supply.
Post by: mwaetht on December 31, 2011, 11:20:23 pm
I've been running this deck for a bit now and with upped sundials, it does screw up the mulligan a bit. To compensate I'd suggestI'm not sure Phase Shield is all that useful. You need 3 Supernova to play it, after all.
- 2 hourglasses
+ 1 time pillar
+ 1 phase shield
I always get clogged up with too many hourglasses in my hand and time quanta is more often than not in short supply.
Post by: coldfusion on December 31, 2011, 11:35:30 pm
Yeah, I normally use it after my chain of sundials. 3 more turns helps a lot and by the time you're done with your sundial chain you wont have many cards left in the deck anyway so you should easily have enough quanta. No other use for aether quanta otherwise anyway.I've been running this deck for a bit now and with upped sundials, it does screw up the mulligan a bit. To compensate I'd suggestI'm not sure Phase Shield is all that useful. You need 3 Supernova to play it, after all.
- 2 hourglasses
+ 1 time pillar
+ 1 phase shield
I always get clogged up with too many hourglasses in my hand and time quanta is more often than not in short supply.
Post by: mwaetht on December 31, 2011, 11:55:28 pm
You're using seven towers to fuel two hourglasses (the Supernovas pay for the dragon), which seems quite inefficient unless you're using unupped Sundial.
EDIT: Nope. Having only two hourglasses kills your win rate; you can't get to your Sundials in time. In one memorable game, I had to let the chain fall so much that even when I got the chain up and running again I was at 2 HP and staring across Neptune's Poseidon.
The most humiliating part of it all was that I had just drawn the last part of the combo, but not enough Supernovas to play it.
Post by: Marvgaroth on January 02, 2012, 12:10:42 am
I built the Wrecking ball (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32982.0) to farm bronze arena. Played at least 300 games and got 2 Shards! Seriously, there must be a shorter way...
Thx for help ;)
Post by: Chapuz on January 02, 2012, 01:12:01 am
Can sb. give me a hint how to get the shards, please?With the wrecking ball you should be able to farm shards in silver.
I built the Wrecking ball (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32982.0) to farm bronze arena. Played at least 300 games and got 2 Shards! Seriously, there must be a shorter way...
Thx for help ;)
Post by: Sevs on January 02, 2012, 09:52:50 am
Can sb. give me a hint how to get the shards, please?Shards are not easy. and probably the wrong thread :P
I built the Wrecking ball (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32982.0) to farm bronze arena. Played at least 300 games and got 2 Shards! Seriously, there must be a shorter way...
Thx for help ;)
I've been running this deck for a bit now and with upped sundials, it does screw up the mulligan a bit. To compensate I'd suggestI have tried with just -1 sundial +1 phase shield just not extensively enough to definitively say it is better or worse. Phase shield is always an interesting addition.
- 2 hourglasses
+ 1 time pillar
+ 1 phase shield
I always get clogged up with too many hourglasses in my hand and time quanta is more often than not in short supply.
Post by: Chapuz on January 02, 2012, 01:44:35 pm
Post by: Absol on January 03, 2012, 01:18:36 pm
And whoa! The winrate is really insane!
Post by: Corri on January 05, 2012, 04:51:27 pm
Post by: taejin on January 06, 2012, 06:02:15 am
Also, if your Sundial gets stolen (which never really happens, iirc) the stall is still in play. But if your Phase Shield is stolen, then you lose the protection all together.
(btw, I, too, want to add my thanks for sharing this deck. I thought that I would do some FG farming again, noticed this deck, and was surprised at how well it works.)
Post by: Night_Zero on January 06, 2012, 07:33:50 pm
Post by: Jenkar on January 06, 2012, 07:47:56 pm
Post by: Night_Zero on January 06, 2012, 07:54:26 pm
Completely upped, it owns.Order to upgrade cards in? Pillars first as in other decks?
Post by: Atico on January 06, 2012, 07:59:37 pm
Finally finished upping this deck today. This was a triumph.I think that making Dragon 11/5 can also hurts...
And whoa! The winrate is really insane!Just hope that zanz won't nerf SoRProbably not, seeing as this use a 8-card combo, which is pretty hard.
Post by: Jenkar on January 06, 2012, 08:04:05 pm
Probably that, followed by the shards.Completely upped, it owns.Order to upgrade cards in? Pillars first as in other decks?
Post by: Sevs on January 07, 2012, 12:21:23 am
Completely upped, it owns.Order to upgrade cards in? Pillars first as in other decks?
Dragon, SN are absolutely required. The rest of the upgrade order should be
Hourglasses --> Time towers --> Skyblitz -->Shards of Readiness--> Mitosis --> Chimera --> Sundial
Post by: Zso_Zso on January 07, 2012, 08:37:02 pm
Then I dived into FG farming, but it looks like I have horrible luck today... From the first 10 games, I got 1 win and 9 losses >:( :o
3 of them were Dark-matter, 3 times Hecate, but I also lost to Incarnate and Serket due to horrible draw -- no hourglass at all until 8 or 10 cards left and I die.
I even lost a game to Akebono due to running out of sundials before I had all the combo cards (1 SoR and sky-blitz was still missing) -- I started the chain at 52 HP and he already had 2 dragons with overdrive so I could not have waited another turn (Titan was also up).
Everybody says this deck works so great, and now that I finally got the cards to build it I got terrible luck with it... :(
Post by: Jenkar on January 07, 2012, 09:28:28 pm
I finally got my 4th SoR (upped from a Platinum arena special spin) and so I could complete this deck -- fully upped.Persevere. Bad luck happens, but is counterbalanced by good luck at other times.
Then I dived into FG farming, but it looks like I have horrible luck today... From the first 10 games, I got 1 win and 9 losses >:( :o
3 of them were Dark-matter, 3 times Hecate, but I also lost to Incarnate and Serket due to horrible draw -- no hourglass at all until 8 or 10 cards left and I die.
I even lost a game to Akebono due to running out of sundials before I had all the combo cards (1 SoR and sky-blitz was still missing) -- I started the chain at 52 HP and he already had 2 dragons with overdrive so I could not have waited another turn (Titan was also up).
Everybody says this deck works so great, and now that I finally got the cards to build it I got terrible luck with it... :(
Post by: Zso_Zso on January 08, 2012, 12:55:19 am
Post by: hell7fire1 on January 08, 2012, 05:53:28 pm
Ways to screw up with this deck:
- Casting SoR on the wrong dragon.
- Playing SoR before mistosis.
- Playing a sundial after using the combo.
- Using your hourglass when you are on 0 cards.
- Not playing sky blitz.
Post by: Chapuz on January 08, 2012, 05:58:49 pm
Add this to the OP
Ways to screw up with this deck::)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :)) :))
- Casting SoR on the wrong dragon.
- Playing SoR before mistosis.
- Playing a sundial after using the combo.
- Using your hourglass when you are on 0 cards.
- Not playing sky blitz.
- Playing Chimera before sky blitz.
- Playing sundial in the combo turn.
- Drawing cards in a sundial turn when having 7 combo cards in the hand (in a needed Chimera match).
- Discarding Chimera early vs. death, rainbows and entropy decks.
- Playing sundial and keep drawing until you have no cards left in the deck.
Post by: furballdn on January 10, 2012, 02:28:11 am
Post by: Zso_Zso on January 10, 2012, 02:50:44 pm
Post by: ashashin on January 11, 2012, 01:54:54 am
Post by: Absol on January 11, 2012, 03:13:01 am
If you can draw all your deck this turn, and your hand is getting clogged by sundial (but otherwise you could start the combo) then just start it, and draw the remaining card afterwards.
Don't overdraw against Gods that need Chimera.
Against gods that doesn't need chimera, if you overdraw (but still be able to draw more that turn) and if you have enough quanta, you can play chimera (0|0 stats) and continue your draw.
Don't hesitate to play multiple sundials, especially when your deck has reached 10. Use them for the draw. Though, you also have to time (no pun intended) the ability so you can stall till the combo start.
Silurian Dragon can be summoned for 12 :time. Which can be obtained via SNs. The rest of the :time coming from the towers can be used as drawing accelerator.
Don't use SNs if you don't need it. You may want to intentionally clog your hand with just enough of them so you can discard that extra hourglass you're not going to use anyway.
There are 4 FGs that doesn't have CC in any way: Ferox, Divine Glory, Miracle, and Serket. Start the combo ASAP against them. You can create an extra dragon or two to compensate if you got a late SoR.
Post by: Sevs on January 11, 2012, 08:36:14 pm
Maybe a few strategy:
If you can draw all your deck this turn, and your hand is getting clogged by sundial (but otherwise you could start the combo) then just start it, and draw the remaining card afterwards.
Don't overdraw against Gods that need Chimera.
Against gods that doesn't need chimera, if you overdraw (but still be able to draw more that turn) and if you have enough quanta, you can play chimera (0|0 stats) and continue your draw.
Don't hesitate to play multiple sundials, especially when your deck has reached 10. Use them for the draw. Though, you also have to time (no pun intended) the ability so you can stall till the combo start.
Silurian Dragon can be summoned for 12 :time. Which can be obtained via SNs. The rest of the :time coming from the towers can be used as drawing accelerator.
Don't use SNs if you don't need it. You may want to intentionally clog your hand with just enough of them so you can discard that extra hourglass you're not going to use anyway.
There are 4 FGs that doesn't have CC in any way: Ferox, Divine Glory, Miracle, and Serket. Start the combo ASAP against them. You can create an extra dragon or two to compensate if you got a late SoR.
Those are good here are a few more
Against incarnate there is no direct way of killing your dragon so if you find you have the 8 card combo already, you can play the dragon by itself.
Gravity pull from the chimera can give you the last turn of survival against some FG (obliterator, Octane, DG, Graviton)
Post by: geekz_always_win on January 12, 2012, 04:35:49 am
Miracle, Akebono, Ferox, Divine Glory, and Serket have no CC whatsoever, so they're safe.
You might want to add a list of gods without CC so people know when they can play their dragon safely, or possibly add to the god by god.
Btw, epic Decay win:
(http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd245786/epic_decay_win_instosis.jpg)
Also, is Sundial better upped or unupped? I never bothered upping sundial because I haven't played since the sundial cost 2 light quanta instead of just one. And I don't have 9000 electrum on hand.
Post by: rockzo on January 12, 2012, 07:38:54 am
Actually, Incarnate has bloodsuckers, so he can kill your dragons.Yes, but there is no direct way. Poison damage happens after the attack, so playing your dragon a turn early will help free up space in your hand.
Post by: Jenkar on January 12, 2012, 08:55:49 am
Post by: Sevs on January 12, 2012, 06:09:47 pm
Also, is Sundial better upped or unupped? I never bothered upping sundial because I haven't played since the sundial cost 2 light quanta instead of just one. And I don't have 9000 electrum on hand.I am pretty convinced upped is better, but there are quite a few people that think otherwise. It is more of a preference.
Post by: Chapuz on January 12, 2012, 06:22:13 pm
Post by: geekz_always_win on January 13, 2012, 02:09:08 am
It all depends on how often you start with only sundials as playable cards on turn 1.And how often is that? (From your experience with the deck.)
Post by: Chapuz on January 13, 2012, 02:30:14 am
Enough to play it with unupped Sundials :PIt all depends on how often you start with only sundials as playable cards on turn 1.And how often is that? (From your experience with the deck.)
Post by: Zso_Zso on January 13, 2012, 09:16:15 pm
Dark Matter - Impossible - Well 2 BH's and you cant win.Nope, it's not impossible, just need to get very lucky, see the attached snapshot!
I did get BH'd twice BEFORE I played my first SN, then I could pull fast enough to get through without him getting another BH.
Post by: Higurashi on January 14, 2012, 09:05:00 am
Post by: Jenkar on January 15, 2012, 06:58:40 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/cWR9O.png)
Post by: Zso_Zso on January 16, 2012, 02:01:06 am
Quote
Gemini - Easy - No Chimera - Chain sundials around ~30 HPDoesn't Gemini have Phase shields, which would require Chimera ?
I actually bit him several times and never seen a phase shield played, but now as I beat him I saw one in the spin after, checked the wiki, and that also confirms.
So I am a bit confused and unsure now, but if he has them, then the guide should be modified...
Post by: furballdn on January 16, 2012, 02:22:37 am
Don't think the AI ever puts up dim shield when you have no creatures or weapon on the field.QuoteGemini - Easy - No Chimera - Chain sundials around ~30 HPDoesn't Gemini have Phase shields, which would require Chimera ?
I actually bit him several times and never seen a phase shield played, but now as I beat him I saw one in the spin after, checked the wiki, and that also confirms.
So I am a bit confused and unsure now, but if he has them, then the guide should be modified...
Post by: UnderneathTheLens on January 16, 2012, 05:46:28 pm
(http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg708/scaled.php?server=708&filename=miraclevz.jpg&res=medium)
(http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg850/scaled.php?server=850&filename=miracle6turn.jpg&res=medium)
Got him the game right after that... so 7 turn EMed him
(http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/885/miracle7turnem.jpg)(http://img814.imageshack.us/img814/8182/miracle7turnem2.jpg)
Post by: Poker Alho on January 16, 2012, 07:03:19 pm
Post by: furballdn on January 16, 2012, 07:09:23 pm
Post by: Sevs on January 16, 2012, 08:58:08 pm
Someone should do a TTW of instosis only, with unupped sundials.talking of ttw I wonder if it qualifies for willng's speedbow thread :P jk.
6 turn win vs Miracle :) (My pet was photon)Wow with 11 cards left, pretty ridiculous draw.
(http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg708/scaled.php?server=708&filename=miraclevz.jpg&res=medium)
(http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg850/scaled.php?server=850&filename=miracle6turn.jpg&res=medium)
Got him the game right after that... so 7 turn EMed him
(http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/885/miracle7turnem.jpg)(http://img814.imageshack.us/img814/8182/miracle7turnem2.jpg)
I wonder what the fastest possible win could be.
Go 2nd
Hand : 5 x Time Tower Hourglass Hourglass SN
Turn 1 :play towers 1 x HG
End : 6 time 1 entropy 1 x HG
Hand : hourglass SN SN
Turn 2 : draw HG play HG
End : 6 time 2 entropy 2xHG
Hand : Hourglass SN SN SN
Turn 3 : play 3 SN use 2xHG to draw SN, Silurian, play SN, hourglass
End : 13 time 3xHG 3 entropy
Hand : Silurian , mitosis
Turn 4 : 3xHG draw (SORx3)
End : Enough quanta 3xHG
Hand : Silurian , mitosis, 4xSOR
Turn 5 : 3xHG draw (Skyblitz, Chimera, SN)
Play combo
End : Win
Sundials coud replace draws meaning 4/5 turns could have been protected.
go 2nd
Hand 1 = 4xSN time tower silurian mitosis skyblitz
Hand 2 = sundial 4xSN silurian mitosis skyblitz
Hand 3 = silurian mitosis skyblitz Sundial (SoR)
Hand 4 = Silurian Mitosis Skyblitz SoR Sundial (SoR)
Hand 5 = Silurian Mitosis Skyblitz 3xSoR (SoR)
Post by: pulli23 on January 17, 2012, 12:03:14 am
Unupped sundials, upped? - Or partially upped?
I'm running unupped sundials atm, however I am constantly in lack of time quanta when I need to play the combo...
EDIT: how the heck am I supposed to play against seism.. It states easy, but from all 8 games I lost all 8. He constantly time-denies me, playing hourglasses doesn't leave enough time for dragons, and otherwise I'm way to slow.
He just destroys all time pillars the moment you create them.
Post by: Jenkar on January 17, 2012, 08:39:57 am
So after testing, what has becomes best?Against seism, it's pwetty easy if you remember this : Never use more than 12 time quanta for your hourglasses/drawing, unless he leaves one of your tower alone. I recommend playin' them one at a time.
Unupped sundials, upped? - Or partially upped?
I'm running unupped sundials atm, however I am constantly in lack of time quanta when I need to play the combo...
EDIT: how the heck am I supposed to play against seism.. It states easy, but from all 8 games I lost all 8. He constantly time-denies me, playing hourglasses doesn't leave enough time for dragons, and otherwise I'm way to slow.
He just destroys all time pillars the moment you create them.
Post by: pulli23 on January 17, 2012, 01:15:59 pm
Well as I play with unupped sundials (Got really really fed up with having no towers first turn), this basically means you can only do 2 "hourglass pulling". - So before you're through all cards (and that is needed when you already used 12 time) you're 16 turns further. Taking the guess that the last 2 cards will be hourglasses (!), this means you can only start chaining sundials after the 8th turn. So you got to survive 8 turns while taking less than 60 damage.So after testing, what has becomes best?Against seism, it's pwetty easy if you remember this : Never use more than 12 time quanta for your hourglasses/drawing, unless he leaves one of your tower alone. I recommend playin' them one at a time.
Unupped sundials, upped? - Or partially upped?
I'm running unupped sundials atm, however I am constantly in lack of time quanta when I need to play the combo...
EDIT: how the heck am I supposed to play against seism.. It states easy, but from all 8 games I lost all 8. He constantly time-denies me, playing hourglasses doesn't leave enough time for dragons, and otherwise I'm way to slow.
He just destroys all time pillars the moment you create them.
Possible? - obvious; Easy? - rather hard in my books.
Post by: Higurashi on January 17, 2012, 02:24:11 pm
Post by: Gandora on January 17, 2012, 11:42:28 pm
Silurian dragon is used because all other possible dragons need 6 SN ?
(excepting crimson dragon, which needs 5 SN and has still enough atk and ruby dragon would do the combo also with 3 SoR but needs 6 SN)
Because, not being used to this deck yet, it happens that I used too much time so that I wasn't able to pay for the Silurian dragon.
So I wondered if other dragons could be a replacement, allowing more draws with hourglass.
Post by: pulli23 on January 17, 2012, 11:47:50 pm
Post by: Gandora on January 18, 2012, 12:00:58 am
Because silurian is a TIME creature, and time creatures get a bonus from shard of readiness.. (use 2 times the skill)oh. how could I forget this? xD
I'm sorry, looks like it's time to sleep xP
Post by: r2krebirth on January 18, 2012, 03:50:02 pm
Post by: zhangvict on January 19, 2012, 06:07:21 pm
Wouldn't it be better to use only 3 shards of readiness and a parallel universe? You will get 1 dragon + 6 from shards of readiness + 1 from Parallel universe = 8 dragons, x 2 damage from sky blitz = 208 damage.
Less risk of the last shard using up some :air quantum and messing up your blitz, and making good use of the :aether quantum not being used.
Post by: Sevs on January 19, 2012, 06:14:16 pm
With 4 shards of readiness, you get 9 dragons each of 13 dmg and then double it all in sky blitz. That's 230+ damage.If you are worried about air quanta you can skyblitz after 3 SoR and then use the 4th after, leading to 7x26 +2x13 = 208 damage as well. but the issue with that is Damage reduction shields. Such as jade, mirror, diamond... without the 4th SoR before skyblitz, you will need chimera to OTK. The non reliance on chimera is what makes this deck successful.
Wouldn't it be better to use only 3 shards of readiness and a parallel universe? You will get 1 dragon + 6 from shards of readiness + 1 from Parallel universe = 8 dragons, x 2 damage from sky blitz = 208 damage.
Less risk of the last shard using up some :air quantum and messing up your blitz, and making good use of the :aether quantum not being used.
Post by: zhangvict on January 20, 2012, 08:05:07 am
How about ruby dragons instead of siluarians? They cost 12 fire :fire and deal 15 dmg. You will need only 3 shards of readiness and no parallel universes at all, making it 6 cards w/o chimera
1 dragon 15 dmg --> mitosis ---> SoR -->SoR --> SoR --> 7 dragons 105 dmg --> blitz --> 210 dmg
Can stand up to 1 shield reduction, only needs 7 cards for a OTK against a Dim shield, hope etc.
Downside is that you will need to draw all 6 of your supernovas to get the 12 :fire, but significantly reduces reliance on time towers and saves 1 card. Maybe can replace a time tower and use up the saved space for 3 fire towers. Or replace with 2 precogs instead to help you faster draw the supernovas.
Lol, I am mostly looking a way that uses 3 SoR because I only have 3.
Post by: Sevs on January 20, 2012, 08:19:21 am
Ahh, yes, I get it, if the damage reduction of the shield is more than 1, then the total damage dealt by the 8 dragons will be less than 200.Same problem as Gandora a couple posts ahead, SoR has an extra bonus to time creatures which crimson dragon is not. If you only have 3 SoR, your best bet is to either use a TU and pretty much always need chimera or grind for the 4th
How about ruby dragons instead of siluarians? They cost 12 fire :fire and deal 15 dmg. You will need only 3 shards of readiness and no parallel universes at all, making it 6 cards w/o chimera
1 dragon 15 dmg --> mitosis ---> SoR -->SoR --> SoR --> 7 dragons 105 dmg --> blitz --> 210 dmg
Can stand up to 1 shield reduction, only needs 7 cards for a OTK against a Dim shield, hope etc.
Downside is that you will need to draw all 6 of your supernovas to get the 12 :fire, but significantly reduces reliance on time towers and saves 1 card. Maybe can replace a time tower and use up the saved space for 3 fire towers. Or replace with 2 precogs instead to help you faster draw the supernovas.
Lol, I am mostly looking a way that uses 3 SoR because I only have 3.
Post by: Absol on January 20, 2012, 09:42:08 am
Only :time creature could use their skill twice during this turn. Non :time creature only got the cost reduced to 0. They can't use the skill twice nor could they use it this turn.
PU could work. Probably. Needs more testing.
EDIT: wait, i didn't see Sev's post in the next page. Sorry.
EDIT2: after a few testing, i figured this out:
-SoR, +TU
Pros:
One less rare.
Against god without CC, you can go Dragon -> Mito -> SoR -> TU to double your dragon multiplication. You may even shave a few SoR or two this way.
Less chance to eat :air or :aether
Cons:
With any FGs with DR shield, you have to use Chimera. (which significantly increases the number of Gods which need Chimera)
More unstable because of the above reason, particularly if you didn't draw all your SNs before you get all cards you need.
Post by: r2krebirth on January 20, 2012, 03:53:38 pm
Post by: nolf on January 20, 2012, 07:52:09 pm
Post by: Smile on January 20, 2012, 09:19:40 pm
Post by: zhangvict on January 21, 2012, 03:39:27 am
Post by: Absol on January 21, 2012, 04:54:05 am
Would it be advisable to use a semi upped PU version of deck to farm the gold or platinum league to get the 4th shard? I've got everything upgraded except the sundials, mitosis and PU, and chimeraMaybe not. With the 4th SoR replaced by TU, the winrate drops considerably. It's not a problem against FGs, since their decks could be checked anytime, but it's a problem against Arena. They could use any deck (and thus forcing you to practically ALWAYS use Chimera to be safe).
Also, SoD.
Post by: nolf on January 21, 2012, 08:38:44 am
Post by: ralouf on January 21, 2012, 08:54:01 am
Post by: rickerd on January 21, 2012, 12:13:49 pm
This won't be my new farmer
Post by: omegareaper7 on January 21, 2012, 04:05:08 pm
I tried it, I won some matches (lost even more :()One bad day doesn't mean you should drop the deck altogether.
This won't be my new farmer
Post by: rickerd on January 21, 2012, 06:10:41 pm
You're probably right,I tried it, I won some matches (lost even more :()One bad day doesn't mean you should drop the deck altogether.
This won't be my new farmer
Maybe i'll try it later again
Post by: mrtwigie01 on January 21, 2012, 08:08:32 pm
Post by: willng3 on January 21, 2012, 08:18:53 pm
what does PC stand for?Permanent Control. Deflagration, Steal, Pulverizer, etc.
Post by: Ifailgood on January 22, 2012, 05:00:30 am
Post by: furballdn on January 22, 2012, 05:08:38 am
I owuld build this, but I have no SoR.Sadly, SoR is central to this deck. 4 of them actually.
Post by: Jocko on January 22, 2012, 06:26:14 am
Besides, you will probably lose more than you win. But the magic of FGs mae it profitable anyways.You're probably right,I tried it, I won some matches (lost even more :()One bad day doesn't mean you should drop the deck altogether.
This won't be my new farmer
Maybe i'll try it later again
Post by: Absol on January 22, 2012, 08:15:56 am
I tried it, I won some matches (lost even more :()Believe me or not, i was skeptical too at first.
This won't be my new farmer
But then i tried playing semi-upped. I could up the rest of the deck in a day. (before that i struggled to up a card a day)
And after fully upped, i could up the JMZ Classic and the Wrecking ball in a day for each. This is really the best bang for your bucks.
Post by: zhangvict on January 22, 2012, 12:50:46 pm
Post by: pulli23 on January 25, 2012, 12:44:53 am
(Well I still auto-quite if I see a pest with destroy on the first turn :P).
Upped few more sundials - 1 to go- wondering if I can ever win vs seism now. (Haven't seen him since I went from 6 unupped sundials to 1)
Post by: Sevs on January 25, 2012, 01:26:33 am
From the (independent) tests of jenkar it seems dream catcher, jezebel & hermes ought to be "auto quitted". Seems like this deck is even more vulnerable to PC than to pests? - Probably because with the speed of this deck you can outrush pests?I will say jezebel is defintely not an auto quit you have to let her steal your towers before you play anything
(Well I still auto-quite if I see a pest with destroy on the first turn :P).
Upped few more sundials - 1 to go- wondering if I can ever win vs seism now. (Haven't seen him since I went from 6 unupped sundials to 1)
but decay is much easier than i thought you have to get SN off early and if you cant you lose but the deciding factor is very early into the game. Hermes is always difficult with any deck. I wonder if someone can merge the 2 stats toegther to really see which gods are hardest
Post by: Zso_Zso on January 25, 2012, 03:46:03 pm
| False-god | spin | rating | CC-PC | limit |
| Akebono | 48% | 5 | no-PC | C50HP |
| Chaos-Lord | 34% | 2 | CC+PC | C50HP |
| Dark-Matter | 36% | 1 | CC+PC | C50HP |
| Decay | 50% | 2 | CC+PC | C50HP |
| Destiny | 38% | 5 | no-PC | ~25HP |
| Divine-Glory | 54% | 3 | no-CC | ~50HP |
| Dream-Catcher | 33% | 1 | CC+PC | ~50HP |
| Elidnis | 33% | 5 | no-PC | ~30HP |
| Eternal-Phoenix | 46% | 2 | CC+PC | ~50HP |
| Ferox | 38% | 5 | None | ~30HP |
| Fire-Queen | 43% | 4 | no-PC | ~50HP |
| Gemini | 42% | 5 | no-PC | ~30HP |
| Graviton | 40% | 3 | CC+PC | C50HP |
| Hecate | 45% | 3 | CC+PC | C60HP |
| Hermes | 34% | 2 | CC+PC | ~60HP |
| Incarnate | 41% | 4 | no-PC | C30HP |
| Jezebel | 49% | 1 | CC+PC | ~50HP |
| Lionheart | 40% | 5 | no-PC | ~30HP |
| Miracle | 33% | 4 | None | ~30HP |
| Morte | 33% | 3 | no-PC | C70HP |
| Neptune | 40% | 4 | no-PC | ~50HP |
| Obliterator | 41% | 4 | CC+PC | ~50HP |
| Octane | 49% | 1 | CC+PC | ~1FW |
| Osiris | 47% | 5 | no-PC | ~60HP |
| Paradox | 41% | 5 | no-PC | ~30HP |
| Rainbow | 32% | 2 | CC+PC | ~ASAP |
| Scorpio | 32% | 4 | no-PC | ~6P |
| Seism | 36% | 4 | CC+PC | ~30HP |
| Serket | 41% | 3 | None | ~6poison |
- spin chance of getting a card in the spin
- rating the above explained difficulty rating
- CC-PC indicates whether the god has creature and/or permanent control
- limit safe health limit to start your sundial chain, if first character is 'C' it indicates that you need the Chimera
I used to have dark-matter rated 0, but I upgraded him to 1, because I beat him twice, nevertheless, the 1-rated gods should still be skipped IMHO if you are going for earning/time ratio.
Post by: PoLdeR on January 25, 2012, 08:46:08 pm
Have u tried this version??
I thought, since every time i lose a match against a god it counters its cuz of too little HGs, this might work better. But it could just trade one bad draw for the other..
Only stats can figure out whats better.. Anyone wanna make them for me??
Also,
PVP version i recommend is:
Post by: UnderneathTheLens on January 25, 2012, 09:09:14 pm
I don't like the idea of only 5 SNs, but I haven't tried it, so who knows.
Have u tried this version??
I thought, since every time i lose a match against a god it counters its cuz of too little HGs, this might work better. But it could just trade one bad draw for the other..
Only stats can figure out whats better.. Anyone wanna make them for me??
Also,
PVP version i recommend is:
For the PVP version, you don't really need that much damage. Can't you take out at least 1 SoR?
Post by: Sevs on January 25, 2012, 09:14:42 pm
Post by: PoLdeR on January 25, 2012, 09:54:00 pm
For the PVP version, you don't really need that much damage. Can't you take out at least 1 SoR?I took out Sky Blitz.. Its better against BH and other quanta denial than 2 Sor + SB.. I do 117 dmg..
Post by: Dm on January 25, 2012, 11:56:11 pm
Though it does work with a 3 SoR + Sky Blitz + 1 SoR combo, that's chimera against any DR shield. Plus, 3 SoR is a bit too risky to feel good with it. (With only 10 quanta)
Sure, it's all a matter of preference.
Post by: willng3 on January 27, 2012, 06:55:23 am
Well it's funny you should say that because it actually meets all of the criteria and it's fast enough to where it can easily be put on there. There are several bits that you don't necessarily have to wait for against AI3 which means it can basically break the sound barrier there.Someone should do a TTW of instosis only, with unupped sundials.talking of ttw I wonder if it qualifies for willng's speedbow thread :P jk.
Post by: Absol on January 29, 2012, 10:42:21 am
Maybe this is the only "rush" deck that can beat FGs. (if by rush you mean speed then yes, but if by card then this is a speed stall. Confused? Me too.)
Post by: Provolone on January 31, 2012, 04:08:10 pm
Post by: pulli23 on January 31, 2012, 11:14:36 pm
Post by: Absol on February 01, 2012, 12:27:35 am
I'm getting into the habit of surrendering if the 2 first hourglasses are destroyed/stolen immediatelly.. Is that actually good?Agsinst several Gods, those are actually good, as it also act as a decoy so your sundial chain isn't interrupted. So you might want to not quit that soon.
Post by: furballdn on February 01, 2012, 05:07:19 am
Post by: pulli23 on February 01, 2012, 10:03:31 am
Haven't seen a single time when the AI prefers to target a sundial over a hourglass - late game.I'm getting into the habit of surrendering if the 2 first hourglasses are destroyed/stolen immediatelly.. Is that actually good?Agsinst several Gods, those are actually good, as it also act as a decoy so your sundial chain isn't interrupted. So you might want to not quit that soon.
Post by: Absol on February 01, 2012, 10:36:04 am
Exactly my point. AI prefers glasses over dials, so if you can get those out, your chain is safe.Haven't seen a single time when the AI prefers to target a sundial over a hourglass - late game.I'm getting into the habit of surrendering if the 2 first hourglasses are destroyed/stolen immediatelly.. Is that actually good?Agsinst several Gods, those are actually good, as it also act as a decoy so your sundial chain isn't interrupted. So you might want to not quit that soon.
Against PC gods, that's what you want: them destroying glasses instead of dials.
Post by: pulli23 on February 01, 2012, 11:01:43 am
Post by: Absol on February 01, 2012, 11:13:41 am
Uhm and then have 6 sundials & 18 cards left to go?Your point being?
Post by: Poker Alho on February 01, 2012, 11:26:22 am
he's trying to say that you cant draw all the remaining cards fast enough to be safe if you lose all the hourglasses (aka nonsense) :PUhm and then have 6 sundials & 18 cards left to go?Your point being?
Post by: pulli23 on February 01, 2012, 11:39:28 am
Then tell me what you do when you see something like eternal phoenix destroy your first 2 hourglasses, and have 5 phoenixes out? You'll have to start chaining sundials when you have 18 cards left... And even with 5 sundials that's at most 10 more cards.he's trying to say that you cant draw all the remaining cards fast enough to be safe if you lose all the hourglasses (aka nonsense) :PUhm and then have 6 sundials & 18 cards left to go?Your point being?
Post by: Poker Alho on February 01, 2012, 11:43:12 am
Then tell me what you do when you see something like eternal phoenix destroy your first 2 hourglasses, and have 5 phoenixes out? You'll have to start chaining sundials when you have 18 cards left... And even with 5 sundials that's at most 10 more cards.he's trying to say that you cant draw all the remaining cards fast enough to be safe if you lose all the hourglasses (aka nonsense) :PUhm and then have 6 sundials & 18 cards left to go?Your point being?
try and quote me when i said it was impossible to have a situation where you were gonna get killed because you lost all the hourglasses and the sundial chain would not be enough to get the combo out before dying... of course you can get an example of this
but MOST OF THE TIME, you can and will get all the cards you need from hourglasses and the sundials, even when losing some of them to PC
Post by: Higurashi on February 01, 2012, 11:45:55 am
In other words, you only want to sacrifice HG's if you have a surplus of them or Dials, or if it's mid/late-game.
Post by: Chapuz on February 01, 2012, 12:08:25 pm
As per the guide, you want to draw out PC with Towers against FG's like EP. Losing either Dials or HG's can be disastrous as you've seen, although it depends on how many you have left. If you draw a lot of HG's and you're able to keep one going, that's usually enough.Even doing that, sometimes the FGs with 12 PC don't let you a single :))
In other words, you only want to sacrifice HG's if you have a surplus of them or Dials, or if it's mid/late-game.
Post by: Absol on February 01, 2012, 01:22:34 pm
*coughhermescough*As per the guide, you want to draw out PC with Towers against FG's like EP. Losing either Dials or HG's can be disastrous as you've seen, although it depends on how many you have left. If you draw a lot of HG's and you're able to keep one going, that's usually enough.Even doing that, sometimes the FGs with 12 PC don't let you a single :))
In other words, you only want to sacrifice HG's if you have a surplus of them or Dials, or if it's mid/late-game.
Post by: UnderneathTheLens on February 01, 2012, 11:00:46 pm
Post by: burpcow on February 02, 2012, 01:53:13 am
Post by: Sevs on February 02, 2012, 03:04:40 am
Here's my question: do you quit if you have no towers in your opening hand against medium and hard gods? I usually do but I'm not sure if I should be.You never know what kind of hand you are going to get after the initial draw, also you never know what kind of draw the FG is going to get.
Post by: burpcow on February 02, 2012, 03:41:16 am
Post by: burpcow on February 06, 2012, 04:39:18 am
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/846/geminic.jpg/
Post by: zhangvict on February 06, 2012, 06:30:02 am
Oftentimes I find my hand full of combo cards before I finish drawing from all my dials and hourglasses. Summoning the chimera instead of discarding dosen't end your turn, so you can continue drawing from unused permanants.
And yes, the non-essentialness of chimera really is key to the deck's sucess. Hand clogging is a huge problem against the easier chimera needed gods and is the major reason why I lose against them. With my TU + 3 shard version, I can reduce hand clogging by TU'ing an opoment's dragon (e.g. incarnate) but this is not possible with the 4 shard version. After getting my 4th shard from farming the arena, I found that 3 shard + TU is more stable against all false gods in general (but u need chimera more), and the 4 shard version is much easier against non-chimera gods and slightly harder against chimera needing gods. Overall I found 4 shard to be better with a (very) slightly higher win rate though.
Post by: Chapuz on February 06, 2012, 12:15:50 pm
I would like to make a point about play strategy. Against non - chimera gods, it is way easier to summon your chimera on an empty field than to discard it (assuming you already cast 3 supernovas). It will die immediately after your turn ends and will not activate gemini's phase shield.I don't have enough time, but someone could count the "4 Shards + Chimera"-needed FGs and the "TU + Chimera" FGs. Notice that TU FGs are:
Oftentimes I find my hand full of combo cards before I finish drawing from all my dials and hourglasses. Summoning the chimera instead of discarding dosen't end your turn, so you can continue drawing from unused permanants.
And yes, the non-essentialness of chimera really is key to the deck's sucess. Hand clogging is a huge problem against the easier chimera needed gods and is the major reason why I lose against them. With my TU + 3 shard version, I can reduce hand clogging by TU'ing an opoment's dragon (e.g. incarnate) but this is not possible with the 4 shard version. After getting my 4th shard from farming the arena, I found that 3 shard + TU is more stable against all false gods in general (but u need chimera more), and the 4 shard version is much easier against non-chimera gods and slightly harder against chimera needing gods. Overall I found 4 shard to be better with a (very) slightly higher win rate though.
.Those who have a dragon or high attack creature (don't know exactly the min att it must have, is just (200 - 26*7)/2 )
. they must not have any healing stuff, because the early TU would be obsolet.
. Every FG must have an "expexted turns it kills the TUed dragon" variable to the minimum.
This way, we can see if the 4 shard deck is more needed than TU one.
Post by: zhangvict on February 06, 2012, 12:50:43 pm
I don't have enough time, but someone could count the "4 Shards + Chimera"-needed FGs and the "TU + Chimera" FGs. Notice that TU FGs are:Noo, I do not mean that TU'ing the opponent's dragon before you can use the combo. I mean right at the end when you have almost all cards of the combo, but for some reason cannot summon the dragon to clear your hand. You might have 7 cards of the combo (1 card left, bottom decked Silurian dragon) + an extra hourglasses and only 12 :time. Thus you cannot cast the hourglass to clear your hand or else you won't have enough :time to summon the dragon. When this happened to me against incarnate, I just TU his bone dragon, which cleared 1 space. Now I can draw from my sundial to get the siluarian drag. Mitosis + SOR as normal, kill the god. With the 4 shard version, that game would have resulted in a loss. There are plenty of other situations, almost all to do with hand clogging, that would benefit from a TU.
.Those who have a dragon or high attack creature (don't know exactly the min att it must have, is just (200 - 26*7)/2 )
. they must not have any healing stuff, because the early TU would be obsolet.
. Every FG must have an "expexted turns it kills the TUed dragon" variable to the minimum.
This way, we can see if the 4 shard deck is more needed than TU one.
The TU + 3 shard version can deal exactly 200 damage if the opponent has a 1 damage absorbing shield, since it has 8 dragons each dealing 26 dmg. So you don't need a chimera if the god has a 1 dmg shield, but TU is not recommended unless on a min 13 attack drag.
The minimum attack of an airborne creature needed to be suitable for TU (with chimera) needed for it to work with the combo is 9. ( (200 dmg - 7*26)/2 ) = 9. If a creature has 18 or more attack but is not airbourne, you can TU that as well.
I ddin't count, but from my experience, some TU + Chimera gods that that have strong suitable creatures for TU are Elidnis, Neptune, Seism and Incarnate. Incarnate has bone dragon, Elidnis had Jade drag, Seism has basalt drag and Neptune has artic drag. Note that Incarnate also requires chimera for the 4-shard version, so incarnate is easier to beat with the 3 shard + TU.
Akebono is also suitable, since it has overdriven massive dragon, but you need to wait 1 turn for it's attack to rise from 8 to 11.
And its just in my experience the 4 shard works better for me, I didn't test anything, just noticed that I started winning more games than I lost. Probably needs more investigation to figure out if that is really the case.
Post by: Gandora on February 08, 2012, 07:44:20 pm
Sorry if this was already mentioned somewhere between those 25 pages but are there precise stats to this version? :)
i was using your deck and i liked it. i was able to make my own version :D.
unupped sundials doesnt screw mulligan so thats that there is a 100% chance where you draw a pend.
with that percentage you can actually get a 2nd turn SN or a first turn SN. but the instosis deck haz 3rd turn sn.
with the 2nd turn SN you can use your sundialz for drawing power :D
so far 74% win rate atm :D
Post by: Sevs on February 08, 2012, 10:33:51 pm
Nope but feel free to take some. The more the better
i was using your deck and i liked it. i was able to make my own version :D.
unupped sundials doesnt screw mulligan so thats that there is a 100% chance where you draw a pend.
with that percentage you can actually get a 2nd turn SN or a first turn SN. but the instosis deck haz 3rd turn sn.
with the 2nd turn SN you can use your sundialz for drawing power :D
so far 74% win rate atm :D
Sorry if this was already mentioned somewhere between those 25 pages but are there precise stats to this version? :)
Post by: Gandora on February 08, 2012, 10:46:51 pm
Hm... I'm not very used to play against FG's so I guess my stats wouldn't be correct because there are people who have more experience. I will try 50 games though and post the results. (There's always a first time) :)Nope but feel free to take some. The more the better
i was using your deck and i liked it. i was able to make my own version :D.
unupped sundials doesnt screw mulligan so thats that there is a 100% chance where you draw a pend.
with that percentage you can actually get a 2nd turn SN or a first turn SN. but the instosis deck haz 3rd turn sn.
with the 2nd turn SN you can use your sundialz for drawing power :D
so far 74% win rate atm :D
Sorry if this was already mentioned somewhere between those 25 pages but are there precise stats to this version? :)
Post by: Sevs on February 08, 2012, 10:48:21 pm
The stats in the OP are the first i have ever posted as well. And it is a great way to actually grindHm... I'm not very used to play against FG's so I guess my stats wouldn't be correct because there are people who have more experience. I will try 50 games though and post the results. (There's always a first time) :)Nope but feel free to take some. The more the better
i was using your deck and i liked it. i was able to make my own version :D.
unupped sundials doesnt screw mulligan so thats that there is a 100% chance where you draw a pend.
with that percentage you can actually get a 2nd turn SN or a first turn SN. but the instosis deck haz 3rd turn sn.
with the 2nd turn SN you can use your sundialz for drawing power :D
so far 74% win rate atm :D
Sorry if this was already mentioned somewhere between those 25 pages but are there precise stats to this version? :)
Post by: Gandora on February 09, 2012, 11:21:01 am
Made 51 Games (didn't face all gods and sorry for the bad table, don't know how to do this :():The stats in the OP are the first i have ever posted as well. And it is a great way to actually grindHm... I'm not very used to play against FG's so I guess my stats wouldn't be correct because there are people who have more experience. I will try 50 games though and post the results. (There's always a first time) :)Nope but feel free to take some. The more the better
i was using your deck and i liked it. i was able to make my own version :D.
unupped sundials doesnt screw mulligan so thats that there is a 100% chance where you draw a pend.
with that percentage you can actually get a 2nd turn SN or a first turn SN. but the instosis deck haz 3rd turn sn.
with the 2nd turn SN you can use your sundialz for drawing power :D
so far 74% win rate atm :D
Sorry if this was already mentioned somewhere between those 25 pages but are there precise stats to this version? :)
Akebono 1w/1l
Chaos Lord 1l
Dark Matter 1 skip
Decay not encountered
Destiny not encountered
Divine Glory 1w/4l
Dream Catcher not encountered
Elidnis 3w/1l
Eternal Phoenix 3l
Ferox 3w
Fire Queen 1w
Gemini 2w
Graviton 1w/2l
Hecate not encountered
Hermes not encountered
Incarnate not encountered
Jezebel 2l
Lionheart 1w
Miracle 1w
Morte not encountered
Neptune 1w
Obliterator 1w/2l
Octane 1l
Osiris 3w/2l
Paradox 1w/1l
Rainbow 1w/1l
Scorpio 2w/2l
Seism 1w/1l
Serket 2w
Overall Wins: 50.98%
I'd say this deck could do better. Phase Shield is a card that can block for three turns, compared to Sundial this is great. Disadvantage is of course the need of 3 SN.
I often wasn't able to use the second Phase shield because of lack of :aether or because I already drew a lot with HG and Sundial, so I had to discard it.
I also made some playing mistakes (draw too much, wrong discard etc.). I guess I also was unlucky with gods that I could have won easily.
Divine Glory always had all his explosions early and Jezebel had both times an Amber Nymph. Once I didn't draw any pends; Octane played 5 UG in 6 turns and so on.
Anyway, I guess 60% would be possible with this deck. I'd personally change though a Phase Shield for something else. Maybe HG.
I guess someone with more experience can play this better. Also I have a feeling that because of phase shield sundials can be played earlier.
This way you can chain Sundials with a phase shield between.
In the end, I'd say it's worth to do more testing and that this deck is a little more difficult to play correctly.
Here the version I used (upped chimera and mitosis instead of the one BloodlinE213 used):
Post by: MyNameIsJoey on February 09, 2012, 01:42:28 pm
Im using the deck in the OP with -1 dial and +1 tower, it seems to work a lot more for me. Perhaps because some of my dials are unupped, but the additionnal tower really helps a lot.
Post by: jacker on February 09, 2012, 02:46:59 pm
Post by: Sevs on February 09, 2012, 06:56:06 pm
Mind you i diddnt read all the 25 pages to see if that has been said before, but.A lot of people actually use a 31 card version if they used unupped dials. instead of taking out a sundial. but i can imagine either way works.
Im using the deck in the OP with -1 dial and +1 tower, it seems to work a lot more for me. Perhaps because some of my dials are unupped, but the additionnal tower really helps a lot.
Does 6 Up sundial mess up with the starting hand? I'm trying 3 and 3, just to have more % of a tower in starting hand. 1/3 :time is not really a problemSometimes it does sometimes it doesnt. i havent thought of a 1/2 upped and 1/2 unupped though possibly an improvement.
Using http://elements.alanbeam.net/qi.php and http://xenocidius.webs.com/openinghandsimulator.htm here are some stats
| Deck | Instosis | Instosis(3 upped dials) | Instosis(all unupped dials) | Instosis(all unupped dials+1 Tower) |
| Time QI | 3.75 | 4.06 | 4.38 | 3.89 |
| % time tower | 81% | 86% | 95.5% | 98.3% |
- the % of a starting hourglass is 5% greater in the original instosis than the fully modded one.
- On the other hand does QI take into effect from the massive drawing? because with less turns to generate quanta you would probably want to a lower QI, making the first and last variation the most ideal
- Seism is a much harder with unupped sundials
Post by: Sk1llsIll on February 11, 2012, 05:41:14 pm
Post by: Toxx on February 20, 2012, 03:27:11 pm
Post by: UnderneathTheLens on February 25, 2012, 09:19:02 pm
(http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/7484/paradoxfun.jpg)
Post by: Chapuz on February 26, 2012, 03:58:21 am
Pretty fun game.Because 9 Dragons is too mainstram.
(http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/7484/paradoxfun.jpg)
Post by: furballdn on February 26, 2012, 04:00:19 am
Post by: Chapuz on February 26, 2012, 04:53:32 am
With any CCless FG, you can have a readied mitosising dragon. You just keep chaining with sundials while popping out another dragon every turn.Useless, but guess it doesn't hurt anyone xD
Post by: furballdn on February 26, 2012, 04:56:44 am
Not really useless. With enough turns of popping out dragons, you can finish matches much earlier since then you wouldn't need all 4 SoRs. Also, your dragons could actually do some damage, so that means less dragons are needed for the final sky blitz.With any CCless FG, you can have a readied mitosising dragon. You just keep chaining with sundials while popping out another dragon every turn.Useless, but guess it doesn't hurt anyone xD
Post by: Chapuz on February 26, 2012, 01:44:37 pm
I have just seen the Sky Blitz was the last card of his deck xDNot really useless. With enough turns of popping out dragons, you can finish matches much earlier since then you wouldn't need all 4 SoRs. Also, your dragons could actually do some damage, so that means less dragons are needed for the final sky blitz.With any CCless FG, you can have a readied mitosising dragon. You just keep chaining with sundials while popping out another dragon every turn.Useless, but guess it doesn't hurt anyone xD
Post by: pulli23 on February 27, 2012, 11:03:28 am
Happens hardly ever though; before you have enough time quanta you're at the last, maybe the turn before last turn.Not really useless. With enough turns of popping out dragons, you can finish matches much earlier since then you wouldn't need all 4 SoRs. Also, your dragons could actually do some damage, so that means less dragons are needed for the final sky blitz.With any CCless FG, you can have a readied mitosising dragon. You just keep chaining with sundials while popping out another dragon every turn.Useless, but guess it doesn't hurt anyone xD
Post by: RogueSensei on February 28, 2012, 10:05:09 pm
Post by: UnderneathTheLens on February 29, 2012, 12:03:16 am
Can this deck be used with minimum or no upgraded cards?From the AI4 Slaughterfest Competition
Post by: zhangvict on February 29, 2012, 07:59:19 am
Maybe also a bit about needing chimera more because any damage shield of 2 or more will block it, and also something about being able to TU the opoment's dragon instead of your own if your hand is clogged, and adding flexibility to the combo order.
Post by: Sevs on February 29, 2012, 08:27:57 am
Hey Sevs, I was thinking, maybe you can post in the OP about the deck being possible with 3 shards only + TU for the noobs? A lot of new players have been asking advice about false gods, and they often complain of needing more shards, and I often repeat myself in telling them they only need 3.A possibility, the only reason i have not added a TU version is that is has lower winrate, and the jump in grinding from 3 to 4 SoR is not that huge. If i get around to it this weekend i can.
Maybe also a bit about needing chimera more because any damage shield of 2 or more will block it, and also something about being able to TU the opoment's dragon instead of your own if your hand is clogged, and adding flexibility to the combo order.
Can this deck be used with minimum or no upgraded cards?If i could reduce it to the least amount of upgrades possible, this would be it
Yes it is meant to be 31 cards.
so 11 upped cards is 16.5k electrum? not too bad i guess
Post by: silinda on March 02, 2012, 03:00:28 pm
Anyone have any other suggestions on OTKs that they're hiding in their back pocket? (that aren't currently searchable on the forums, done that a lot already)
Post by: Calindu on March 02, 2012, 03:10:58 pm
Is the only way to run this deck with a minimum of 3 shards? I finally got my first one but it took me 8 attempts at farming bronze. With a total of almost 20 attempts at farming bronze, I was able to get 3 things from special spins but only one was the right shard.3 Shards and a PU works too, am I right?
Anyone have any other suggestions on OTKs that they're hiding in their back pocket? (that aren't currently searchable on the forums, done that a lot already)
Post by: zhangvict on March 02, 2012, 03:42:49 pm
Yes it does. However, the total damage is reduced from 238 with 9 dragons to 208 with 8 dragons. With the 3 shard + TU version, any damage shield of 2 or more will necessitate the use of chimera.Is the only way to run this deck with a minimum of 3 shards? I finally got my first one but it took me 8 attempts at farming bronze. With a total of almost 20 attempts at farming bronze, I was able to get 3 things from special spins but only one was the right shard.3 Shards and a PU works too, am I right?
Anyone have any other suggestions on OTKs that they're hiding in their back pocket? (that aren't currently searchable on the forums, done that a lot already)
Post by: pulli23 on March 04, 2012, 12:54:24 pm
Just to add: I think the best upgrade path is: 1) sky blitz (really 1 lower cost helps much more than 2 random quanta lowering)Hey Sevs, I was thinking, maybe you can post in the OP about the deck being possible with 3 shards only + TU for the noobs? A lot of new players have been asking advice about false gods, and they often complain of needing more shards, and I often repeat myself in telling them they only need 3.A possibility, the only reason i have not added a TU version is that is has lower winrate, and the jump in grinding from 3 to 4 SoR is not that huge. If i get around to it this weekend i can.
Maybe also a bit about needing chimera more because any damage shield of 2 or more will block it, and also something about being able to TU the opoment's dragon instead of your own if your hand is clogged, and adding flexibility to the combo order.Can this deck be used with minimum or no upgraded cards?If i could reduce it to the least amount of upgrades possible, this would be it
Yes it is meant to be 31 cards.
so 11 upped cards is 16.5k electrum? not too bad i guess
2) shards
3) pillars (? not sure where this should go)
4) mitosis/chimera/sundials
Post by: UnderneathTheLens on March 04, 2012, 04:49:59 pm
Just to add: I think the best upgrade path is: 1) sky blitz (really 1 lower cost helps much more than 2 random quanta lowering)Hey Sevs, I was thinking, maybe you can post in the OP about the deck being possible with 3 shards only + TU for the noobs? A lot of new players have been asking advice about false gods, and they often complain of needing more shards, and I often repeat myself in telling them they only need 3.A possibility, the only reason i have not added a TU version is that is has lower winrate, and the jump in grinding from 3 to 4 SoR is not that huge. If i get around to it this weekend i can.
Maybe also a bit about needing chimera more because any damage shield of 2 or more will block it, and also something about being able to TU the opoment's dragon instead of your own if your hand is clogged, and adding flexibility to the combo order.Can this deck be used with minimum or no upgraded cards?If i could reduce it to the least amount of upgrades possible, this would be it
Yes it is meant to be 31 cards.
so 11 upped cards is 16.5k electrum? not too bad i guess
2) shards
3) pillars (? not sure where this should go)
4) mitosis/chimera/sundials
Quote
Upgrade Order
Dragon, SN are absolutely required. The rest of the upgrade order should be
Hourglasses --> Time towers --> Skyblitz -->Shards of Readiness--> Mitosis --> Chimera --> Sundial
Post by: furballdn on March 05, 2012, 02:04:00 am
Post by: kimham8a on March 05, 2012, 04:02:48 am
Post by: furballdn on March 05, 2012, 04:33:16 am
Post by: kimham8a on March 05, 2012, 04:37:14 am
Post by: Sevs on March 05, 2012, 08:49:01 am
Mind you i diddnt read all the 25 pages to see if that has been said before, but.A lot of people actually use a 31 card version if they used unupped dials. instead of taking out a sundial. but i can imagine either way works.
Im using the deck in the OP with -1 dial and +1 tower, it seems to work a lot more for me. Perhaps because some of my dials are unupped, but the additionnal tower really helps a lot.Does 6 Up sundial mess up with the starting hand? I'm trying 3 and 3, just to have more % of a tower in starting hand. 1/3 :time is not really a problemSometimes it does sometimes it doesnt. i havent thought of a 1/2 upped and 1/2 unupped though possibly an improvement.
Using http://elements.alanbeam.net/qi.php and http://xenocidius.webs.com/openinghandsimulator.htm here are some statsOther possibly notable facts
Deck Instosis Instosis(3 upped dials) Instosis(all unupped dials) Instosis(all unupped dials+1 Tower) Time QI 3.75 4.06 4.38 3.89 % time tower 81% 86% 95.5% 98.3%
- the % of a starting hourglass is 5% greater in the original instosis than the fully modded one.
- On the other hand does QI take into effect from the massive drawing? because with less turns to generate quanta you would probably want to a lower QI, making the first and last variation the most ideal
- Seism is a much harder with unupped sundials
Iunno. After upping sundials, I have been getting some worse opening hands. Maybe it's because of the mulligan. Did anyone try different upped sundial numbers like 3, 0, 2, and see results?I did some QI calculations and opening hand simulations earlier and i know quite a few people use different variations, just no one has taken/posted any stats. If you would like to take stats on the different versions please post them.
Post by: Keoky on March 05, 2012, 04:49:54 pm
This deck is just...
...GREAT !
Post by: dragonsdemesne on March 05, 2012, 10:37:44 pm
If shard of bravery comes out in its current form, I'd ditch all of the hourglasses and sundials, and use shard of bravery and precogs; you'll win by like turn 4-5 almost every time. Your win percentage with that would probably be over 90%, and with luck a first turn kill would be possible.
Post by: UnderneathTheLens on March 05, 2012, 10:39:02 pm
I think 6 upped sundials is best, if you have them. They do give you the occasional towerless hand, but being short on time quanta can be a problem even with fully upped cards, so you want to save on it where you can.Huh? Won't you clog up your opponents hand really really fast that way?
If shard of bravery comes out in its current form, I'd ditch all of the hourglasses and sundials, and use shard of bravery and precogs; you'll win by like turn 4-5 almost every time. Your win percentage with that would probably be over 90%, and with luck a first turn kill would be possible.
Post by: Poker Alho on March 06, 2012, 12:03:42 am
change some precogs with silence and its a neat combo altough with the incoming Snova nerf i dont see how will you be able to pull off a 1 turn kill on turn 1I think 6 upped sundials is best, if you have them. They do give you the occasional towerless hand, but being short on time quanta can be a problem even with fully upped cards, so you want to save on it where you can.Huh? Won't you clog up your opponents hand really really fast that way?
If shard of bravery comes out in its current form, I'd ditch all of the hourglasses and sundials, and use shard of bravery and precogs; you'll win by like turn 4-5 almost every time. Your win percentage with that would probably be over 90%, and with luck a first turn kill would be possible.
Post by: dragonsdemesne on March 06, 2012, 12:07:01 am
Post by: UnderneathTheLens on March 06, 2012, 12:28:28 am
Sure, but I'm not sure where the issue is. (well, other than being OP :p) The point is you can play SoB, play the cards you get from it or make room otherwise, and play more SoB, and if your opponent has a full hand, they get zero benefit, while you get extra cards to play. Between SoB and Precog, you can draw an awful lot of your deck very quickly if you can keep chaining them, and even more if you use a fire mark, although if you did fire mark you'd have trouble having enough time and entropy quanta.Well, SoB forces you and your opponent to draw the same number of cards...
So if he has a full hand, your SoB is wasted; if he has 7 cards, you only draw 1 card, etc.
Post by: kimham8a on March 06, 2012, 01:21:49 am
zero turn kill has been done before search 0 turn win in beta decks. Enemy was only ai3 though. Btw, since this was done on the first turn of the game, obviously opponent hand clogging doesnt matter.change some precogs with silence and its a neat combo altough with the incoming Snova nerf i dont see how will you be able to pull off a 1 turn kill on turn 1I think 6 upped sundials is best, if you have them. They do give you the occasional towerless hand, but being short on time quanta can be a problem even with fully upped cards, so you want to save on it where you can.Huh? Won't you clog up your opponents hand really really fast that way?
If shard of bravery comes out in its current form, I'd ditch all of the hourglasses and sundials, and use shard of bravery and precogs; you'll win by like turn 4-5 almost every time. Your win percentage with that would probably be over 90%, and with luck a first turn kill would be possible.
Also, chaining supernova isnt a bad thing to do if your goiing to do combo in a few turns, because as soon as the chimera hits the singularities wont have chance to heal opponent.
Post by: dragonsdemesne on March 06, 2012, 01:32:22 am
Post by: Sevs on March 06, 2012, 02:19:09 am
Post by: kimham8a on March 06, 2012, 02:49:39 am
Post by: Absol on March 06, 2012, 02:56:46 am
Post by: Max Fire on March 06, 2012, 08:38:08 am
MetaGame of Rainbow decks will change seriously.
Post by: ralouf on March 06, 2012, 09:23:35 am
Post by: Sevs on March 06, 2012, 09:55:16 am
Hmm no instosis is pretty slow and it doesn't really matter if you don't play all your SN in the same turn so I don't think the nerf will hurt that much.SN's help with the early setup but even with a few singularities the OTK damage happens after the healing stuff. On another note, Chimera will have a new use as an extra shield to hold off attackers with singularities having High HP.
Post by: DonceB on March 06, 2012, 01:04:36 pm
Post by: Chapuz on March 06, 2012, 10:02:46 pm
SN nerf, otherwise, makes it a bit slower if you are able to draw early cards at the cost of a 2nd SN. Most of the times it doesn't matter, other times makes you loose.
Post by: bogtro on March 07, 2012, 12:33:06 am
But also lose a lot of attack.Hmm no instosis is pretty slow and it doesn't really matter if you don't play all your SN in the same turn so I don't think the nerf will hurt that much.SN's help with the early setup but even with a few singularities the OTK damage happens after the healing stuff. On another note, Chimera will have a new use as an extra shield to hold off attackers with singularities having High HP.
Post by: kimham8a on March 08, 2012, 01:13:13 am
Post by: Poker Alho on March 08, 2012, 01:15:28 am
you know, this farms ai3 really fast. Faster than many speedbows ive tried. My version to fight ai3 is -2 sor +1 tower and +1 hourglass. Does anyone agree that this is a good ai3 killer?really? whats your average ttw? i seriously doubt this can even get near the awesome stats of the mono shrieker rush deck, wich btw is the deck i use to farm bronze and in 4 minutes or less i get a special spin. out of topic i know, but now i cant find a single mono-aether dim shield chaining deck in there :D
Post by: furballdn on March 08, 2012, 01:47:53 am
you know, this farms ai3 really fast. Faster than many speedbows ive tried. My version to fight ai3 is -2 sor +1 tower and +1 hourglass. Does anyone agree that this is a good ai3 killer?Could be. What would the TTW be? Personally, I feel that a mono rush would be faster, since you don't have to rely on such a complicated combo.
Post by: kurathedog on March 08, 2012, 01:53:49 am
you know, this farms ai3 really fast. Faster than many speedbows ive tried. My version to fight ai3 is -2 sor +1 tower and +1 hourglass. Does anyone agree that this is a good ai3 killer?Even if this is an entire turn faster, I would most likely still not use it. Why? No thinking involved with a shreiker rush, minimal clicking with death rush, etc. If I am doing all this stuff for a kill, I would much prefer getting upped cards from it.
My opinion, though.
Post by: Sevs on March 08, 2012, 08:08:26 am
Completely agree at best this will average ~8-9ttw with that mod. Against gods it will average around ~9. Why not just get better benefits from it? Also may I ask what speedbows you are trying because I cant think of a decent one that is slower than this deck.you know, this farms ai3 really fast. Faster than many speedbows ive tried. My version to fight ai3 is -2 sor +1 tower and +1 hourglass. Does anyone agree that this is a good ai3 killer?Even if this is an entire turn faster, I would most likely still not use it. Why? No thinking involved with a shreiker rush, minimal clicking with death rush, etc. If I am doing all this stuff for a kill, I would much prefer getting upped cards from it.
My opinion, though.
Post by: kimham8a on March 09, 2012, 02:28:24 am
Well for the isntosis i have 7 timetower and 6 hourglass now (less sundial)Completely agree at best this will average ~8-9ttw with that mod. Against gods it will average around ~9. Why not just get better benefits from it? Also may I ask what speedbows you are trying because I cant think of a decent one that is slower than this deck.you know, this farms ai3 really fast. Faster than many speedbows ive tried. My version to fight ai3 is -2 sor +1 tower and +1 hourglass. Does anyone agree that this is a good ai3 killer?Even if this is an entire turn faster, I would most likely still not use it. Why? No thinking involved with a shreiker rush, minimal clicking with death rush, etc. If I am doing all this stuff for a kill, I would much prefer getting upped cards from it.
My opinion, though.
For the rainbow i use jmz classic
Post by: Marvaddin on March 09, 2012, 04:14:49 am
I have played 200 games until now, 128-72, 64% win rate (I have the stats, in case you want). Of course, I lost some in the beggining by doing some errors, could be a bit higher.
Some comments I think you could add. There are 3 FGs that cause trouble, but that have a low damage and is usually better playing the dragons once you can do 5-7. These are Decay (I have 4-4), Dream Catcher (2-6, still hard) and Jezebel (3-2, could have 4-1, but did 7 dragons to then know that under the cloak she had 2 entropy and a fire nymph, and of course she had some siphons at hand too, lucky bitch). In fact, vs these, and maybe vs Octane (when he doesnt have 3+ EEs), I think that playing all Sundials when you just can draw is a better strategy. About FG classes, I would move Chaos Lord to easy, Graviton to medium, Hecate to hard, Hermes to hard, Seism to medium, Serket to easy.
But something that comes to mind is the fact that like 30% of my losses are to no PC Gods. I have seem someone posting +1 HG (biggest problem is not drawing them) and +1 Tower. Looks good. Do you have stats about? Or about the version you called fatstosis?
Im also doing horribly vs Hecate. Any advice on this one?
As a courtesy, some pictures I think you will like ;)
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f44/Marvaddin/DecayDefeat.png)
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f44/Marvaddin/DecayDefeat3.png)
Post by: furballdn on March 09, 2012, 04:22:34 am
Post by: kimham8a on March 10, 2012, 06:16:44 am
Sevs, I would like to say thank you for sharing this great deck. This one turned FG grinding fun again :D Too bad I was out for like 4 months, lol.How do you have 50% vs Decay?! Am I doing something wrong? I usually just play all the towers in my hand, then quit as he takes my entropy and plays another few pests.
I have played 200 games until now, 128-72, 64% win rate (I have the stats, in case you want). Of course, I lost some in the beggining by doing some errors, could be a bit higher.
Some comments I think you could add. There are 3 FGs that cause trouble, but that have a low damage and is usually better playing the dragons once you can do 5-7. These are Decay (I have 4-4), Dream Catcher (2-6, still hard) and Jezebel (3-2, could have 4-1, but did 7 dragons to then know that under the cloak she had 2 entropy and a fire nymph, and of course she had some siphons at hand too, lucky bitch). In fact, vs these, and maybe vs Octane (when he doesnt have 3+ EEs), I think that playing all Sundials when you just can draw is a better strategy. About FG classes, I would move Chaos Lord to easy, Graviton to medium, Hecate to hard, Hermes to hard, Seism to medium, Serket to easy.
But something that comes to mind is the fact that like 30% of my losses are to no PC Gods. I have seem someone posting +1 HG (biggest problem is not drawing them) and +1 Tower. Looks good. Do you have stats about? Or about the version you called fatstosis?
Im also doing horribly vs Hecate. Any advice on this one?
As a courtesy, some pictures I think you will like ;)
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f44/Marvaddin/DecayDefeat.png)
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f44/Marvaddin/DecayDefeat3.png)
Post by: furballdn on March 10, 2012, 06:37:54 am
Post by: Sevs on March 10, 2012, 06:42:48 am
Sevs, I would like to say thank you for sharing this great deck. This one turned FG grinding fun again :D Too bad I was out for like 4 months, lol.I never thought of just playing sundials to draw. seems like something i will have to try.
I have played 200 games until now, 128-72, 64% win rate (I have the stats, in case you want). Of course, I lost some in the beggining by doing some errors, could be a bit higher.
Some comments I think you could add. There are 3 FGs that cause trouble, but that have a low damage and is usually better playing the dragons once you can do 5-7. These are Decay (I have 4-4), Dream Catcher (2-6, still hard) and Jezebel (3-2, could have 4-1, but did 7 dragons to then know that under the cloak she had 2 entropy and a fire nymph, and of course she had some siphons at hand too, lucky bitch). In fact, vs these, and maybe vs Octane (when he doesnt have 3+ EEs), I think that playing all Sundials when you just can draw is a better strategy. About FG classes, I would move Chaos Lord to easy, Graviton to medium, Hecate to hard, Hermes to hard, Seism to medium, Serket to easy.
But something that comes to mind is the fact that like 30% of my losses are to no PC Gods. I have seem someone posting +1 HG (biggest problem is not drawing them) and +1 Tower. Looks good. Do you have stats about? Or about the version you called fatstosis?
Im also doing horribly vs Hecate. Any advice on this one?
My computer has actually been broken (screen shattered) for like ~4 months now but as soon as i get it fixed i will finish up all the stats i was taking with the different versions.
Hecate is weird sometimes easy sometimes impossible. Everytime i play him/her/it i just hold back hourglasses till i guess it doesnt have any steals left and dump everything in a turn. once you get an hourglass to stick it becomes much easier.
Decay is also a strange one, you either get a Supernova off and hope he doesn't fractal early or you lose. pretty simple.
Post by: Jenkar on March 10, 2012, 08:57:51 am
How do you have 50% vs Decay?! Am I doing something wrong? I usually just play all the towers in my hand, then quit as he takes my entropy and plays another few pests.In my experience, there is one thing that allows you to survive vs decay :
Play first, all towers. Hope he doesn't drain entropy. As soon as you have 2 entropy, go bazonka on supernovas.
Post by: Absol on March 10, 2012, 10:30:07 am
Which will make it almost impossible God after the SN nerf.How do you have 50% vs Decay?! Am I doing something wrong? I usually just play all the towers in my hand, then quit as he takes my entropy and plays another few pests.In my experience, there is one thing that allows you to survive vs decay :
Play first, all towers. Hope he doesn't drain entropy. As soon as you have 2 entropy, go bazonka on supernovas.
The other Gods are barely affected, though.
Post by: zhangvict on March 10, 2012, 10:35:57 am
No, you only need to SN once. After that, his pest will only have a 1/12 chance of draining entrophy. Then you can SN again next turn.Which will make it almost impossible God after the SN nerf.How do you have 50% vs Decay?! Am I doing something wrong? I usually just play all the towers in my hand, then quit as he takes my entropy and plays another few pests.In my experience, there is one thing that allows you to survive vs decay :
Play first, all towers. Hope he doesn't drain entropy. As soon as you have 2 entropy, go bazonka on supernovas.
The other Gods are barely affected, though.
Post by: Marvaddin on March 11, 2012, 10:18:03 pm
Against Jezebel and Dream Catcher, this strategy can work or not, but vs Decay, Im sure its better than keep the Sundials in hand. If his combo is going out of control, and you have the Dragon, Mitosis, and 2-3 Shards, also there is no point on waiting for the combo, you wont have the Air quanta. Going postal sometimes can work :)
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f44/Marvaddin/DecayDefeat4.png)
Same here, Jezebel got a Gravity Nymph. CHARGE! :D
(http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f44/Marvaddin/JezebelDefeat-1.png)
I need to train vs Hecate in the trainer, looks like. If I play the HG, he steals it. If I wait, he steals nothing, and steals it when I decide to play it. Argh.
About the SN nerf, I really think this deck will be much more affected than it seems. Several games, you can play a 2nd HG early, just because you chain SNs. And most important, currently you dont need stop drawing because of SNs. Its a very common situation, you draw more than a SN per turn, and just play it so you can draw more, without having to waste Sundials, for example. When this curse of a nerf comes, you need stop drawing, maybe even discard the SN.
Post by: semibalanus on March 13, 2012, 02:55:52 pm
Post by: Belligerence on March 13, 2012, 03:11:17 pm
Post by: Lex on March 15, 2012, 04:17:55 pm
Upgrade OrderAs I am using this deck since a few days I would like to share my opinion - I think Sundials should be earlier on this upgrade order.
Dragon, SN are absolutely required. The rest of the upgrade order should be
Hourglasses --> Time towers --> Skyblitz --> Shards of Readiness --> Mitosis --> Chimera --> Sundial
It could seem like cost of not upgraded Sundial is not much but it really helps to be able to play them for free - at least I think it is more important to upgrade them than Mitosis and Chimera as I still have these both cards not upgraded and have no problems with their costs. As for SoR - it depends: their and Sundials upgrade could have the same value, but paying nothing for Sundials gives you more quanta to use for SoRs. Also, sometimes in play vs FGs with a lot of PC (or especially vs Seism) having upgraded Sundials could be very important.
So for me the above order should be:
Hourglasses --> Time towers --> Skyblitz --> Sundials --> Shards of Readiness --> Mitosis --> Chimera
Post by: zhangvict on March 15, 2012, 04:33:26 pm
I agree with your observations, but I think the sundials and SoR should be alternatingly upgraded to make it more efficient. As many people has observed, 3/6 upped sundials is pretty usefull too. How about:Upgrade OrderAs I am using this deck since a few days I would like to share my opinion - I think Sundials should be earlier on this upgrade order.
Dragon, SN are absolutely required. The rest of the upgrade order should be
Hourglasses --> Time towers --> Skyblitz --> Shards of Readiness --> Mitosis --> Chimera --> Sundial
It could seem like cost of not upgraded Sundial is not much but it really helps to be able to play them for free - at least I think it is more important to upgrade them than Mitosis and Chimera as I still have these both cards not upgraded and have no problems with their costs. As for SoR - it depends: their and Sundials upgrade could have the same value, but paying nothing for Sundials gives you more quanta to use for SoRs. Also, sometimes in play vs FGs with a lot of PC (or especially vs Seism) having upgraded Sundials could be very important.
So for me the above order should be:
Hourglasses --> Time towers --> Skyblitz --> Sundials --> Shards of Readiness --> Mitosis --> Chimera
Hourglasses --> Time towers --> Skyblitz -->(1 Sundial --> 1 Shard of Readiness)x4 --> 2 Sundial --> Mitosis --> Chimera
Post by: Lex on March 15, 2012, 05:49:06 pm
I agree with your observations, but I think the sundials and SoR should be alternatingly upgraded to make it more efficient. As many people has observed, 3/6 upped sundials is pretty usefull too. How about:At some point I had upgraded 3/6 Sundials (just because I was using these three in my Rainbow deck before my two years long break from Elements) and I was at point to upgrade my SoRs and had 1 SoR upgraded. At this moment I've noticed I was losing a lot just because I had no time quanta to play my next Sundial and at the same time I always had resources to play all 4 SoRs (1 upgraded and 3 not upgraded) in the end on my winning games.
Hourglasses --> Time towers --> Skyblitz -->(1 Sundial --> 1 Shard of Readiness)x4 --> 2 Sundial --> Mitosis --> Chimera
Post by: wittgenstein on March 15, 2012, 11:22:21 pm
Noticed that sundials should be upgraded just a tad bit sooner. Leaves open extra time quanta just in case you need to combo early.
Post by: kurathedog on March 16, 2012, 12:29:17 am
Already had HG's, towers, and req cards upped
+1 tower--> Blitz ---> Sor ---> Chimera ---> Sundials---> Maybe or maybe not remove tower, depending on my mood.
Never bothered with mitosis. Has never ever made a difference.
I always hated auto-mul into all sundials.
+1 Tower means faster HG out (at cost of slightly lower chance of drawing one early), and pays for unupped sundials.
Also lets you run unupped sundials, if it really bugs you.
That is the varient I have been sticking with. A 3/3 sundial split, and one more tower.
I would like to see mention of the different slight mods to this deck that are possible, besides the FG specific ones (TU, +1 tower, +1 tower and +1 HG, sundials upped or unupped). I remember reading about them when the thread was smaller, but now I can't really find them.
Post by: kimham8a on March 16, 2012, 01:27:13 am
Post by: burpcow on March 16, 2012, 01:31:34 am
Post by: furballdn on March 16, 2012, 03:32:26 am
what fg deck has a better winrate than this? or is this the fastest AND strongest?None so far.
Post by: Sevs on March 16, 2012, 03:50:57 am
When I am done with 200 games This (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,37412.0.html) will be competitive.what fg deck has a better winrate than this? or is this the fastest AND strongest?None so far.
Post by: UnderneathTheLens on March 17, 2012, 02:28:45 am
(http://i.imgur.com/gSHy4.jpg)
Post by: drolly on March 17, 2012, 02:59:44 pm
Dark Matter win 8) (Won two gravity forces ;D)Thanks for your post, it encouraged me not to skip Dark Matter today. And guess what: I won, too! 8) I had 3 HGs in my initial draw which enabled me to discard one and wait for the end of the first BH chain. Then I played my SNs and he didn't BH me the whole match again! The Gravity Nymph came out on the last turn - too late to defeat me. Won a Gravity Force and a Black Hole, RNG finally shows some favour ;D
(http://i.imgur.com/zfb2S.png)
Post by: zaen on March 19, 2012, 08:55:28 am
My skip list is longer than suggested: Chaos Lord, Dark Matter, Decay, Dream Catcher, Eternal Phoenix, Hermes, Jezebel, Octane, Rainbow
10 separate hour runs fully upped.
Games attempted per hour: 19.5
Games won per hour: 13.7
Cards per hour: 6.1
Given my skip list and the different drop rates as well as games played against FGs, this should vary, but with a large enough sample it should be consistent enough for an estimate. Any comments on whether this is low/about right/high?
PS - I should note that I see the stats posted in the first post under Sev. The FG indexes make assumptions and I'm only interested in the card rate per hour as the electrum won/lost is trivial (<10% total electrum change). However, Sev's card drop rate given by his FG index is ~9 cards per hour where I'm at 6. I'm skipping some of the gods he had lower win %s against so I'm not sure where the difference is.
Post by: Jenkar on March 19, 2012, 09:07:40 am
Also, even if they're low, 3/4 cph is nothing to throw away.
Post by: Sevs on March 19, 2012, 09:13:34 am
Does anyone have any recent numbers for cards per hour with a large sample size?from what you posted you average a little over 3 min games with a 70% winrate, in the stats i took wins took around 2:20 per game. which is a 25% difference. It could also just be bad luck in the spins. even over 10 hours, the sample size isnt that large.
My skip list is longer than suggested: Chaos Lord, Dark Matter, Decay, Dream Catcher, Eternal Phoenix, Hermes, Jezebel, Octane, Rainbow
10 separate hour runs fully upped.
Games attempted per hour: 19.5
Games won per hour: 13.7
Cards per hour: 6.1
Given my skip list and the different drop rates as well as games played against FGs, this should vary, but with a large enough sample it should be consistent enough for an estimate. Any comments on whether this is low/about right/high?
PS - I should note that I see the stats posted in the first post under Sev. The FG indexes make assumptions and I'm only interested in the card rate per hour as the electrum won/lost is trivial (<10% total electrum change). However, Sev's card drop rate given by his FG index is ~9 cards per hour where I'm at 6. I'm skipping some of the gods he had lower win %s against so I'm not sure where the difference is.
Post by: zaen on March 19, 2012, 10:05:37 am
I'll give you the time difference. Most of my games are around 2:45 per game, but I tend to err on the side of caution with sundials and drawing to 8 cards without having the combo in hand (ie you could potentially have to drop an additional sundial or break the combo). This puts me around 8-11 ttw instead of your 7-10. Though if I did take more risks, it would lower my win % which negates any time difference (assumption but I believe it holds true). I do have a statistic for 'bad deck order' which means I lost due to drawing no time towers, hourglasses, supernovas or some combination which caused the loss of a match (definite, not a subjective loss). This accounted for 13% of my losses.Does anyone have any recent numbers for cards per hour with a large sample size?from what you posted you average a little over 3 min games with a 70% winrate, in the stats i took wins took around 2:20 per game. which is a 25% difference. It could also just be bad luck in the spins. even over 10 hours, the sample size isnt that large.
My skip list is longer than suggested: Chaos Lord, Dark Matter, Decay, Dream Catcher, Eternal Phoenix, Hermes, Jezebel, Octane, Rainbow
10 separate hour runs fully upped.
Games attempted per hour: 19.5
Games won per hour: 13.7
Cards per hour: 6.1
Given my skip list and the different drop rates as well as games played against FGs, this should vary, but with a large enough sample it should be consistent enough for an estimate. Any comments on whether this is low/about right/high?
PS - I should note that I see the stats posted in the first post under Sev. The FG indexes make assumptions and I'm only interested in the card rate per hour as the electrum won/lost is trivial (<10% total electrum change). However, Sev's card drop rate given by his FG index is ~9 cards per hour where I'm at 6. I'm skipping some of the gods he had lower win %s against so I'm not sure where the difference is.
Sev - 6 cards per hour is fine by me compared to AI3 grinding, but if you can get 9, I'd love to learn how exactly. I'm still not sure where the % win difference is coming from. Sev, your 134:46 W:L (not counting skips) gives you a win rate right around mine. I've played...183 games (different stages of upping instosis) before this 10x single hour runs (195 games played). What am I doing wrong or should do differently?
Jenkar - I'd argue against attempting even 75% win rate FGs from a pure statistics standpoint. The total electrum value is highly linked to the cards won per hour so skipping every god with a low (relative term) win rate for gods with high win rates yields you the most spins and thus electrum per hour. Unless you lose near instantly, you'd make more per time unit by skipping.
Post by: .Edward. on March 19, 2012, 12:29:39 pm
Post by: Sevs on March 19, 2012, 06:11:13 pm
...The difference between what you got what I got is mine is hypothetical and yours is real time. In theory you should average what I have but in practice, it might not be that way every time. If you flip a coin, you should get 50% tails, but even after 200 times you could have 60% heads and 40% tails.
For my 15k score deck,that 5k came from this deck.Thank you very much. :)You are welcome
Post by: BunKeR on March 19, 2012, 11:19:01 pm
@Sevs : I just wanted to create an account and tell you how well beneficial this deck has been to me . I've completed 6 copies of every buyable card and am only missing less than 20 rares till a full base collection . Not to mention it's completely funded 4 fully upped decklists , including the list I use to grind Plat and Bronze .
/insert commercial music
This message was fully funded by Instosis .
So thank you .
=]
Post by: furballdn on March 20, 2012, 01:12:25 am
Post by: Poker Alho on March 20, 2012, 01:41:50 am
Totally random idea. How would silence fit into this? For people without all the shards, I mean, if you ready a mitosising dragon, you can then silence to prevent any spells from hurting it, then pop a free dragon out before applying more shards. Of course, this would mean dr shields would be more effective, and this would only work if there was not any weapon that had control, or creature with a control ability on the field.wich means you could totally add cloak in that combo for total invulnerability... or simply quint the mitosed dragon should be easier no :P ?
Post by: furballdn on March 20, 2012, 01:49:02 am
well quint would mean that you can't add more SoRs, but yeah. Cloak could be an idea. It wouldn't really be an OTK anymore, but it could help the people who lack shards.Totally random idea. How would silence fit into this? For people without all the shards, I mean, if you ready a mitosising dragon, you can then silence to prevent any spells from hurting it, then pop a free dragon out before applying more shards. Of course, this would mean dr shields would be more effective, and this would only work if there was not any weapon that had control, or creature with a control ability on the field.wich means you could totally add cloak in that combo for total invulnerability... or simply quint the mitosed dragon should be easier no :P ?
Post by: Sevs on March 20, 2012, 02:01:08 am
Totally random idea. How would silence fit into this? For people without all the shards, I mean, if you ready a mitosising dragon, you can then silence to prevent any spells from hurting it, then pop a free dragon out before applying more shards. Of course, this would mean dr shields would be more effective, and this would only work if there was not any weapon that had control, or creature with a control ability on the field.I guess I dont see how this would improve the deck, to do that combo you would need 4 cards why not just wait till 7-8? especially when there is 1 copy of mitosis and 1 dragon. And by the point you would be playing that silence, there would be a considerable amount of damage on the FG's field, silence doesnt stop any damage already there. If you wanted to protect yourself from that damage then you would play sundial essentially negating the silence in the first place.
As for people without shards, by the time you draw all the needed card 1 dragon 1 shard 1 mitosis, you probably are close to decking out. and it would take 3 unprotected turns (39+52+130/w skyblitz) + 2 silences, lasting 2 full turns would be almost impossible without changing the entire build. not to mention its weakness to healing decks, and creature or weapon control.
Post by: The Chosen One on March 20, 2012, 08:07:42 pm
Post by: kimham8a on March 20, 2012, 10:30:07 pm
Post by: zaen on March 21, 2012, 05:46:42 am
The difference between what you got what I got is mine is hypothetical and yours is real time. In theory you should average what I have but in practice, it might not be that way every time. If you flip a coin, you should get 50% tails, but even after 200 times you could have 60% heads and 40% tails.Yup, quite familiar with the binomial distribution. This is a bit more complicated than that however. Anyhow, thanks for the deck.
Post by: Troh on March 31, 2012, 08:31:29 am
Thanks Sevs. well done.
I am using this deck ( with slightly modifications) to grind Platinum. ( cos I still don't have all shards )
This is the variant i use right now.
Post by: Svenningen on March 31, 2012, 08:45:03 am
Post by: Gandora on March 31, 2012, 09:35:54 am
I like this deck a lot.Don't you need 4 SoR for Instosis? You have 4 in your deck? *confused*
Thanks Sevs. well done.
I am using this deck ( with slightly modifications) to grind Platinum. ( cos I still don't have all shards )
This is the variant i use right now.
Post by: Sevs on March 31, 2012, 09:46:10 am
Ughh you may want to reread that lol. and It should be pointed out that liquid shadow does not give EM's in an Chimera OTK anymore so there would be no need for that.I like this deck a lot.Don't you need 4 SoR for Instosis? You have 4 in your deck? *confused*
Thanks Sevs. well done.
I am using this deck ( with slightly modifications) to grind Platinum. ( cos I still don't have all shards )
This is the variant i use right now.
Post by: Gandora on March 31, 2012, 11:39:30 am
oops xD I got it now... thanks ^^Ughh you may want to reread that lol. and It should be pointed out that liquid shadow does not give EM's in an Chimera OTK anymore so there would be no need for that.I like this deck a lot.Don't you need 4 SoR for Instosis? You have 4 in your deck? *confused*
Thanks Sevs. well done.
I am using this deck ( with slightly modifications) to grind Platinum. ( cos I still don't have all shards )
This is the variant i use right now.
Post by: Assassine on March 31, 2012, 03:52:06 pm
Post by: Sevs on March 31, 2012, 04:18:46 pm
can someone explain this deck to me? im not entirely sure i understood how it worksThere are 7-8 main combo cards,
The combo is this Silurian Dragon --> Mitosis --> SoR --> SoR --> SoR --> SoR --> SkyBlitz --> ~Chimera
Silurian dragon is an airborne time creature with 13 attack.
Mitosis gives a creature the ability to create a copy of itself.
SoR turns any cost of an ability to 0. and gives time creatures an extra boost allowing them to use its ability twice.
It stacks so the ability mitosis is used 8 times (9x13 attack dragons on the field 117 damage)
Skyblitz doubles all airborne creature's attacks for a turn (9 x26 attack dragons =234 damage)
Chimera combines them all into 1 huge creature with momentum making SoSac and Sundial the only way of stopping it.(Cards FG's dont have)
The rest of the deck is optimized to draw through your deck as fast as possible.
Post by: Troh on March 31, 2012, 05:22:46 pm
I don't have chimera at all.Ughh you may want to reread that lol. and It should be pointed out that liquid shadow does not give EM's in an Chimera OTK anymore so there would be no need for that.I like this deck a lot.Don't you need 4 SoR for Instosis? You have 4 in your deck? *confused*
Thanks Sevs. well done.
I am using this deck ( with slightly modifications) to grind Platinum. ( cos I still don't have all shards )
This is the variant i use right now.
And a 26 attack vampired silurian dragon for last turn. sustained by continues +10 heal per turn ( 2 purifies + 1 dagger ) it gives me 60% EM . I think it is a good inovation
Post by: Pineapple on April 03, 2012, 07:08:12 am
Post by: eaglgenes101 on April 03, 2012, 11:22:53 pm
Given the coming update, would it be worth it to switch from a Snova quanta-base to a QT quanta-base?See the precursor on the OP.
Post by: The Chosen One on April 05, 2012, 10:12:45 am
False God: wins losess Elementar Master
Akebono 2 2
Chaos Lord 1 4
Dark Matter 5
Decay 2 6
Destiny 3
Divine Glory 5 5
Dream Catcher 2 5
Elidnis 3 2
Eternal Phoenix 3 6 1
Ferox 3 1 2
Fire Queen 11 1 4
Gemini 9 2
Graviton 4
Hecate 3 5
Hermes 3 6
Incarnate 7 1
Jezebel 3 5
Lionheart 10 2 5
Miracle 4 1 1
Morte 9
Neptune 4 2
Obliterator 2
Octane 4 4
Osiris 9 2 2
Paradox 7 1 2
Rainbow 3 2 1
Scorpio 8 2
Seism 5 1 1
Serket 3
130 70 24
Win/Rate: 65%
EM : 18,5%
Post by: pulli23 on April 05, 2012, 10:43:23 am
Post by: The Chosen One on April 05, 2012, 11:07:53 am
Just wondering: why purify... It's not like the poison based FG are a big problem anyways - you can mostly beat them in speed. Also that score vs hermes & eternal phoenix seems very high, they always seem to deflag any hourglas I build.because I played 200 consecutive matches without knowing who would be my next FG, of course purify is good only with a few numbers of FG,but 2 Hp every turn is not bad, test it :D
Post by: semibalanus on April 05, 2012, 01:49:08 pm
Post by: Assassine on April 12, 2012, 08:09:36 am
Post by: Jenkar on April 12, 2012, 08:12:25 am
Wouldnt it be better to have at least one backup dragon? i feel like with only one dragon, youre very vulnerable to get that one ccd before he can copy himself.The point of this deck is that when you put the combo down, your opponent is dead. so, no.
Post by: Assassine on April 12, 2012, 08:25:06 am
Post by: Jenkar on April 12, 2012, 08:32:43 am
Ah so SoR gets you around the "cant use ability on turn played"-part? i didnt know that.Not really, just gives you two uses of the ability if used on a time creature.
Post by: Gandora on April 12, 2012, 08:53:13 am
Ah so SoR gets you around the "cant use ability on turn played"-part? i didnt know that.Not really, just gives you two uses of the ability if used on a time creature.
well, he's right. he can use mitosis the turn he uses SoR. so the one turn delay is surpassed.
Post by: Assassine on April 12, 2012, 06:06:48 pm
Edit: Been trying to get my hands on another SoR all day now and didnt even manage to get more then one special spin...
Post by: Foraker on April 14, 2012, 08:13:27 am
But in a match against Obliterator a few minutes ago he destroyed my Sundial instead of a hourglass
and killed me. :o
Edit: Graviton did the same. Seems that the AI now prefers to destroy Sundials over hourglasses. :'(
Post by: Assassine on April 14, 2012, 08:36:06 am
Post by: kurathedog on April 14, 2012, 05:40:54 pm
In other words, liquid shadow Chimera is an EM.
Not sure if I should run 31 cards, or just ignore it for now and aim for more consistency.
Post by: Poker Alho on April 14, 2012, 06:59:19 pm
Post by: mildlyfrightenedboy on April 14, 2012, 07:07:41 pm
Post by: Calindu on April 14, 2012, 07:09:47 pm
So... did Singularity kill this deck?
No.
But Ai targeting sundial probably hits this deck pretty damn hard.
Post by: bogtro on April 14, 2012, 07:10:01 pm
So... did Singularity kill this deck?
Not at all. There's very little effect to it. Just play your SNs once a turn and you'll be fine.
Post by: Poker Alho on April 14, 2012, 08:34:33 pm
So... did Singularity kill this deck?
Not at all. There's very little effect to it. Just play your SNs once a turn and you'll be fine.
actually in almost half the games i played using this deck required me to play several Snovas per turn to keep the draw rate... so until i complete poison dials, i'm going back to limitless speed
Post by: bogtro on April 14, 2012, 08:36:49 pm
Post by: furballdn on April 14, 2012, 08:38:16 pm
Post by: Foraker on April 14, 2012, 08:51:15 pm
So... did Singularity kill this deck?
No.
But Ai targeting sundial probably hits this deck pretty damn hard.
Calindu and I wrote it already.
This is the real nerf.
The Singularity is in my oppinion nothing against this.
Post by: d1puffpuff on April 14, 2012, 09:57:58 pm
With 1.3 Instosis seems to be more nerfed than I thought. The SN-nerf hurts it not that much.
But in a match against Obliterator a few minutes ago he destroyed my Sundial instead of a hourglass
and killed me. :o
Edit: Graviton did the same. Seems that the AI now prefers to destroy Sundials over hourglasses. :'(
Wellll :) when I play, it doesn't seem that 1.3 affected this deck. Even if I do summon a Singularity (if you play correctly, you'll summon 1 at most), it attacks first (because you summon it first) making the OTK damage not lessen at all. The thing is, now, Akebono has shard of focus :(.. So unless you get really lucky and he doesn't draw it, or he overdrives them, he'll target your Sundials for a gg. )': I suggest skipping this FG for 1.3
Post by: furballdn on April 14, 2012, 10:12:43 pm
Akebono has focus? Wha-? I thought false gods don't have shards.With 1.3 Instosis seems to be more nerfed than I thought. The SN-nerf hurts it not that much.
But in a match against Obliterator a few minutes ago he destroyed my Sundial instead of a hourglass
and killed me. :o
Edit: Graviton did the same. Seems that the AI now prefers to destroy Sundials over hourglasses. :'(
Wellll :) when I play, it doesn't seem that 1.3 affected this deck. Even if I do summon a Singularity (if you play correctly, you'll summon 1 at most), it attacks first (because you summon it first) making the OTK damage not lessen at all. The thing is, now, Akebono has shard of focus :(.. So unless you get really lucky and he doesn't draw it, or he overdrives them, he'll target your Sundials for a gg. )': I suggest skipping this FG for 1.3
Post by: Drake_XIV on April 14, 2012, 10:36:43 pm
Post by: eaglgenes101 on April 14, 2012, 10:46:03 pm
Post by: furballdn on April 14, 2012, 11:41:30 pm
Well, apparently Akebono, and another one or two if I remember correctly, have been given Shards.Shocking! Everything I've known has been dumped on its head!
Post by: Nightlark on April 15, 2012, 03:40:29 am
Too bad Akebono's Sundial targeting won't let this deck farm him; some upped SoF would be nice. ;)
Post by: bogtro on April 15, 2012, 04:01:09 am
Post by: d1puffpuff on April 15, 2012, 05:56:36 am
Hrm. So I guess SN nerf didn't really do any terribly earthshaking to this deck, did it?aha nope, it didn't affect much. I personally think, it barely changed anything. (You can actually summon a Singularity 2-3 turns before you OTK (with two hourglasses+sundial) and you'll be fine) (Even summoning a lot of them at the end doesn't do anything, IF you don't need to use Chimera against the FG. BUT if you do need Chimera against that FG, you'll be risking a possibility of too many minuses in the total 234 OTK damage)
Too bad Akebono's Sundial targeting won't let this deck farm him; some upped SoF would be nice. ;)
Anyhow~ after some grinding, I've beaten Akebono 2/5 times :D. Well, I admit in those wins, I did get pretty good draws (such as 1 or 2 hoursglasses and 2 time towers+SN) in addition to Akebono's intelligent decisions to accelerate his SoF's in the beginning turns since he had no other creatures.
Overall, I take back what I said earlier; you prob don't wanna skip Akebono because you have a chance of getting an upped SoF ;).
Post by: FuryGhost on April 19, 2012, 04:14:21 am
Well, apparently Akebono, and another one or two if I remember correctly, have been given Shards.
Osiris has Shards of Focus as well now. Doesn't draw them too often though....
Post by: Max Fire on April 19, 2012, 10:58:46 am
Post by: kimham8a on April 19, 2012, 11:22:05 am
Post by: Zso_Zso on April 19, 2012, 11:58:57 am
The bigger problem for Instosis in v1.3 is the change in targeting priority. Previously if you had hourglasses and a sundial out, the FGs would target the HG with their PC, so they still stayed stalled by the sundial and you could win if the FG did not get too many PC. However, now they will target sundial primarily, which means practically all FGs with PC will beat you unless you get really lucky and they do not draw any.
I believe this targeting priority change has significantly reduced the winning ratio of Instosis against many gods.
Post by: Sevs on April 20, 2012, 05:42:48 am
The addition of a couple of shards into a couple of FGs is not such a big deal for Instosis.
The bigger problem for Instosis in v1.3 is the change in targeting priority. Previously if you had hourglasses and a sundial out, the FGs would target the HG with their PC, so they still stayed stalled by the sundial and you could win if the FG did not get too many PC. However, now they will target sundial primarily, which means practically all FGs with PC will beat you unless you get really lucky and they do not draw any.
I believe this targeting priority change has significantly reduced the winning ratio of Instosis against many gods.
I know but i wonder if it can be abused so that sundials are bait for something else more usefull like dim shield
Post by: DarkBaron12390 on April 21, 2012, 02:54:24 pm
actually i always felt fg's should be made almost impossible to beat. They're supposed to be GODS. When i first saw fg's i thought there would be just one with the same deck as lvl 0 but while being allowed to draw 20+ cards per turn. oh well
They're actually false gods. I think a 70% win rate is fair against a false god. I was hoping that there could be some kind of epic quest set up, which is rare, and is a fight against a real god who makes those false gods look like pansies.
Post by: AP579 on April 23, 2012, 04:10:15 am
>Is so excited that I can test this now
>Builds deck
>enters FG battle
First God: DREAM CATCHER
T.T
Thankfully, the next god was Paradox and I won.
Edit: Great thing is that it doesn't care about singularities unless they get vamped. Otherwise, 234 is high enough to drown out that -7. A Diamond Shield AND a Singularity STILL doesn't require a Chimera.
Post by: Wizy on April 24, 2012, 03:19:05 am
Those who said that the Super Nova Nerf wouldn't affect this deck much should try it. If 2-3 SN are at the bottom, it is pretty much impossible to win.
Minimum 4 SN are needed for the Sky Blitz, that if you are very lucky and the SoR don't eat any single point of :air. With 5 SN there is still a good chance that :air drops under 8.
Starting from the 3rd turn, you have to use a SN every turn. If you pass 2 or more turns without using one, you can't win, unless the FG has little damage on the field (won't happen).
Not to mention FGs with PC wich are more than half of them. They are now quite close to impossible to beat with this.
edit:
Edit: Great thing is that it doesn't care about singularities unless they get vamped. Otherwise, 234 is high enough to drown out that -7. A Diamond Shield AND a Singularity STILL doesn't require a Chimera.Ohh, you are right. I was simply "banning" singularities :-[
Post by: AP579 on April 24, 2012, 03:55:54 am
And of course, if the Singularities PU too much, you can't Chimera or it'll be too low. The Singularities are already there so they heal them to 200 before the dragons win anyway.
Post by: pulli23 on April 24, 2012, 11:25:18 am
Post by: Poker Alho on April 24, 2012, 11:27:30 am
Post by: Sevs on April 24, 2012, 06:53:59 pm
Destiny
Paradox
Ferox
Firequeen
Miracle
Elidnis
Gemini
Incarnate
Lionheart
Neptune
Obliterator
Scorpio
Seism
13/29 is ~45%
plus all the mediums Serket Jezebel Morte Chaos Lord hecate decay. i can easily see how it tops 50% still.
Post by: kimham8a on April 25, 2012, 04:18:18 am
Post by: furballdn on April 25, 2012, 04:20:44 am
yeah i switched from this to a 30 card control rainbow (not a very rushy kind) and with my new deck i have won 4 out of 5 games so far. Lol I was lucky. one win was dream catcher too.I'd like to see your 80% success rate rainbow for Fgs.
Post by: kimham8a on April 25, 2012, 04:24:07 am
Post by: mrtwigie01 on April 26, 2012, 01:10:53 am
Post by: Dopha on April 26, 2012, 01:46:57 am
with the AI change and nova|Supernova nerf, i already changed my FG grinder...
I thought about switching, but it's still working perfectly for some FGs (;
Post by: dragonsdemesne on April 26, 2012, 02:47:43 am
False gods keep destoying my sundials before the hourglasses. will this deck still work with the new changes in the game?
It still works great; there's only a very few FGs that are affected.
Post by: Chapuz on April 26, 2012, 02:50:16 am
How many FGs have how many SoFo now in 1.3?False gods keep destoying my sundials before the hourglasses. will this deck still work with the new changes in the game?It still works great; there's only a very few FGs that are affected.
Post by: justaburd on April 26, 2012, 02:52:30 am
Osiris and AkebonoHow many FGs have how many SoFo now in 1.3?False gods keep destoying my sundials before the hourglasses. will this deck still work with the new changes in the game?It still works great; there's only a very few FGs that are affected.
Post by: Higurashi on April 26, 2012, 08:22:57 am
Post by: Chapuz on April 27, 2012, 01:45:10 pm
Both have 2 (4). Osiris has quickly gone from a joke to a serious threat. I've only gotten him predicted once from the Oracle and I couldn't make a reliable counter.Against Osiris I use Limitless Speed slim version with 3 extra explotions for the catapults because of the massive dim shield stalling, that works better than only 6 sundial turns.
Post by: Poker Alho on April 27, 2012, 03:19:32 pm
Both have 2 (4). Osiris has quickly gone from a joke to a serious threat. I've only gotten him predicted once from the Oracle and I couldn't make a reliable counter.Against Osiris I use Limitless Speed slim version with 3 extra explotions for the catapults because of the massive dim shield stalling, that works better than only 6 sundial turns.
is it worth it to pack those explosions all the time or just as a counter deck?
Post by: Chapuz on April 27, 2012, 04:46:14 pm
I use it only for Osiris and Obliterator. I don't think it's useful for the other FGs, because 3 explotions isn't enough to beat Octane and shields are not problems.is it worth it to pack those explosions all the time or just as a counter deck?Both have 2 (4). Osiris has quickly gone from a joke to a serious threat. I've only gotten him predicted once from the Oracle and I couldn't make a reliable counter.Against Osiris I use Limitless Speed slim version with 3 extra explotions for the catapults because of the massive dim shield stalling, that works better than only 6 sundial turns.
/off topic, more LS comments in its own thread :P
Post by: kimham8a on April 28, 2012, 03:23:42 am
Post by: Arum on May 12, 2012, 01:23:22 am
Post by: justaburd on May 12, 2012, 01:25:35 am
Post by: Arum on May 12, 2012, 01:27:17 am
It slows down the deck. I say just skip decay/dmRemove 1 hourglass.
Post by: furballdn on May 12, 2012, 02:13:19 am
Post by: Ge0metry v1.2 on May 12, 2012, 04:16:55 am
It slows down the deck. I say just skip decay/dmRemove 1 hourglass.
I don't think anything is worth taking out an hourglass.
Post by: ThePolaris on May 12, 2012, 10:01:41 am
Post by: stevy4 on May 12, 2012, 10:32:41 am
Post by: Sevs on May 12, 2012, 06:34:35 pm
really good deck!!!
Thank You!
Wouldn't throwing in a Mirror Shield instead of the Chimera give a much better chance against Octane? Just got him (her?) twice in a row, and checked, if there is a variation for her in the Oracle predictions.
It would give you a better shot vs. Octane but it isn't worth it since it would hurt the chances vs every other god requiring chimera
Post by: ThePolaris on May 13, 2012, 10:20:54 am
Wouldn't throwing in a Mirror Shield instead of the Chimera give a much better chance against Octane? Just got him (her?) twice in a row, and checked, if there is a variation for her in the Oracle predictions.
It would give you a better shot vs. Octane but it isn't worth it since it would hurt the chances vs every other god requiring chimera
I meant that you should add an Oracle-variation for Octane with a Mirror Shield. :D Of course it wouldn't be good for about any other god. Also now that I thought of it, I'd rather go with a Wings against Serket instead of the Purify. If you get it out, you don't need your Sundials any more, only for the draws.
Post by: Sevs on May 13, 2012, 07:47:06 pm
Wouldn't throwing in a Mirror Shield instead of the Chimera give a much better chance against Octane? Just got him (her?) twice in a row, and checked, if there is a variation for her in the Oracle predictions.
It would give you a better shot vs. Octane but it isn't worth it since it would hurt the chances vs every other god requiring chimera
I meant that you should add an Oracle-variation for Octane with a Mirror Shield. :D Of course it wouldn't be good for about any other god. Also now that I thought of it, I'd rather go with a Wings against Serket instead of the Purify. If you get it out, you don't need your Sundials any more, only for the draws.
I thought it was already there guess not. Wings conflicts with Sky blitz
Post by: Acacia Avenue on May 20, 2012, 11:58:22 am
Post by: Absol on May 20, 2012, 12:52:19 pm
I'd change the god by god breakdown, changing akebono and Osiris to "impossible" since they have Shards of Focus now. No hope to defeat them with the OP deck.Not true. they have ranked up to Normal or Hard, true, but certainly not Impossible.
I've beaten Osiris a few times with this before. Still viable.
Post by: dspn23 on May 24, 2012, 08:59:53 pm
i had never seen such a thing for this deck...
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3370045/11_cards.jpg)
as i had only 5 supernovas i had to use the sky blits before the shards to avoid going below 8...
i had got only 4 sundials i belive.fortunatly i had got all shards at last 2 cards :D
this was defenetly a hell of a lucky as i was already expecting a lose once i had no more sundials
Post by: Pyrodinium on May 29, 2012, 05:08:06 am
It fails versus an early earthquake or permanent control versus my sundials and/or E hourglasses
Post by: Chapuz on May 29, 2012, 11:00:01 am
Been using the almost upped version of this deck (time factories, mitosis and the sundials are not yet upgraded) versus Half-BloodsIt works better against FGs than against half bloods, and sundial upgrade is batter of taste because of the mulligan screw they bring (I use then unupgraded).
It fails versus an early earthquake or permanent control versus my sundials and/or E hourglasses
Play against FGs until you can upgrade the time factories.
Post by: Poker Alho on May 29, 2012, 11:01:31 am
Post by: Pyrodinium on May 29, 2012, 12:23:08 pm
Been using the almost upped version of this deck (time factories, mitosis and the sundials are not yet upgraded) versus Half-BloodsIt works better against FGs than against half bloods, and sundial upgrade is batter of taste because of the mulligan screw they bring (I use then unupgraded).
It fails versus an early earthquake or permanent control versus my sundials and/or E hourglasses
Play against FGs until you can upgrade the time factories.
Hmmm... I'll try upgrading the sundials.
Post by: Chapuz on May 29, 2012, 01:15:11 pm
As you want, but pilars are priority.Hmmm... I'll try upgrading the sundials.Been using the almost upped version of this deck (time factories, mitosis and the sundials are not yet upgraded) versus Half-BloodsIt works better against FGs than against half bloods, and sundial upgrade is batter of taste because of the mulligan screw they bring (I use then unupgraded).
It fails versus an early earthquake or permanent control versus my sundials and/or E hourglasses
Play against FGs until you can upgrade the time factories.
Post by: Opsinis on May 30, 2012, 09:48:15 pm
(http://i1234.photobucket.com/albums/ff407/Opsinis/Elements%20album/IntosisDarkMatterWin.png)
There wasn't a single BH, incredible!
Post by: bobknows on May 31, 2012, 07:51:41 am
This should be added to the play tips section, it may seem obvious but i bet a lot of people miss this.
Post by: Chapuz on May 31, 2012, 10:15:44 am
"later game, dont be afraid to play multiple SN on one turn if needed, it wont screw up the otk""Late game" means no more than 3 turns before finishing. Lalculating it for 3 turns against a 200 HP oponent can be risky, but 2 turns is safe.
This should be added to the play tips section, it may seem obvious but i bet a lot of people miss this.
Post by: Opsinis on May 31, 2012, 11:56:31 am
"later game, dont be afraid to play multiple SN on one turn if needed, it wont screw up the otk"
This should be added to the play tips section, it may seem obvious but i bet a lot of people miss this.
Sometimes when I don't get a Sundial for a turn and have a couple SN's and a chimera I use all the SN's,
then use the chimera to make them all one and the enemy creatures attack the mass of anti-attack.
It works, but only for FGs where the Chimera isn't needed.
Post by: bobknows on May 31, 2012, 06:32:05 pm
If you do make a singularity it will hit before the dragons and you cant heal them to over 200 hp, so your dragons will still kill no matter how many singularities you have. Also, sundials stop singularities as well, so the vampire ones will only hurt you on the last turn.
Post by: Absol on May 31, 2012, 06:36:02 pm
Chapuz, i dont really get what you are saying.It can kill you if it gains Vampire. Generally, you have low HP late game, so this is a trouble. (though, there is always Sundial to the rescue)
If you do make a singularity it will hit before the dragons and you cant heal them to over 200 hp, so your dragons will still kill no matter how many singularities you have. Also, sundials stop singularities as well, so the vampire ones will only hurt you on the last turn.
Also, Chimera for FG which needs it.
Post by: bobknows on May 31, 2012, 06:47:08 pm
With 22 health you can always play 2 sn 3 turns before you win and with 36 health it jumps up to 4.
Considering this deck has ~ 10 ttw and you have to wait 2 turn before even being able to play a sn, i dont forsee vampires being a problem
Post by: Jenkar on May 31, 2012, 09:36:44 pm
A few notes :
- Ghostmare is an autoquit
- Early SoFo/double SoFo/pulvy/gravity nymph is autoquit
- Late SoFo is manageable
- The best way to avoid singularities on last turn is to play dragon, mitosis it all you need, then supernova all you need.
- Fire or dark decks without sofo can be manageable, depending on amount of PC/early pests
- Chimera is a GREAT way to get rid of early singularities.
Post by: Fippe94 on June 02, 2012, 10:28:14 am
Post by: Jenkar on June 02, 2012, 10:34:50 am
Post by: bobknows on June 02, 2012, 02:51:48 pm
Post by: Pyrodinium on June 03, 2012, 01:18:22 pm
I used the minimally upped deck and used it against HB's
1. 3 shards are enough to OTK most HB's
2. Changing the Wind Pillar into a Quantum Tower (the HB was nice enough to give me one) feeds shards better and protects from pests and black holes
3. Mitosis doesn't to be upped at all
4. It's okay to have to a singularity in the last turn.
Post by: Gemini on June 05, 2012, 02:31:57 am
EDIT: First EM win on Obliterator :)
EDIT 2: 8 turn win on Obli :P
EDIT 3: 8 turner on Elidnis...
What the hell is up with the turn killings? O.o I had only won once or twice at 8 turn before this.
Post by: bobknows on June 08, 2012, 11:41:22 pm
Post by: Chapuz on June 09, 2012, 02:26:25 am
Post by: furballdn on June 09, 2012, 02:39:01 am
Post by: Joe21 on June 16, 2012, 09:02:32 am
I'd love to see the opening post updated considering Akebono and Osiris have SoFo and saying in the God to God breakdown with wich God you can play the dragon earlier (no CC or no Phase Shields he can put down)
Post by: bobknows on June 20, 2012, 05:47:09 pm
I was thinking:
-4 hgs, -4-5 time towers, +1 wind tower +1 gravity tower and +6sobs
Post by: kimham8a on June 22, 2012, 03:02:48 am
I know that there was a sob version of this before te sob and sn nerfs, but is there a sob version for 1.31?
I was thinking:
-4 hgs, -4-5 time towers, +1 wind tower +1 gravity tower and +6sobs
I feel that opp hand will be clogged.
Post by: Chapuz on June 22, 2012, 03:04:28 am
yours tooI know that there was a sob version of this before te sob and sn nerfs, but is there a sob version for 1.31?
I was thinking:
-4 hgs, -4-5 time towers, +1 wind tower +1 gravity tower and +6sobs
I feel that opp hand will be clogged.
Post by: KeY533 on June 22, 2012, 02:42:48 pm
But I've got a question what do you mean with:
"Rainbow - Hard - No Chimera - Chain sundials When first hourglass is in play."
shall i start chaining my sundials after he played his first hourglass or after I played my first hourglass or doesn't even matter who from us aslong as theres a hourglass ingame = chain sundials??
Thanks in advance.
Post by: bobknows on June 23, 2012, 03:52:18 am
Using one each turn and sundials each turn will let you draw 18 cards, which leaves 5 cards in your deck. This is easy to draw wit even one other hourglass.
Post by: RyanTheHood on June 24, 2012, 10:45:10 pm
Post by: Werdbooty on July 13, 2012, 06:26:38 am
Post by: Bloom on July 17, 2012, 04:51:39 am
(http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/197/55267043.png)
Post by: Assassine on July 17, 2012, 10:57:58 pm
Post by: furballdn on July 17, 2012, 11:00:02 pm
Post by: Assassine on July 17, 2012, 11:15:57 pm
Post by: Higurashi on July 17, 2012, 11:37:59 pm
Post by: Reid4891 on July 22, 2012, 01:38:44 am
Too bad I didn't win any card as usual...
(http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo233/Reid4891/decay.jpg)
Btw, I think this deck is great, even a semi-upped version can win more than 50% vs FGs. I can only complain that I can almost never win in Arena though since there is too PC imho, or maybe I'm just unlucky about the decks that I play against, but it's ok as long as I can keep working splendid vs FGs I'm definitely not gonna complain (but I've to agree with the guy who said that Osiris and Akebono are almost impossible with SoFo now, I think my ratio win vs them is less than 5-10%). :)
2/2... is Decay really so hard (I just played out everything as fast as I could again)? O.o
(http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo233/Reid4891/decay2.jpg)
Obviously no card again... :P
Now with EM! :)
(http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo233/Reid4891/decayem.jpg)
Post by: Altissimus on July 25, 2012, 02:54:08 pm
I have updated the easy/medium/hard to reflect my experience vs Sevs. I have also upgraded the difficulty of Akebono and Osiris, who now pack the game-winning SoFo. I have incorporated a key to show permanent/creature control at-a-glance.
Key:
NC – Chimera needed
CC/NCC – creature control / no creature control. Against no creature control, you can play your dragon early if you wish. Freeze etc counts as removal for this purpose.
PC/NPC – permanent control / no permanent control. Played against your dials/towers/glasses.
Easy/Medium/Hard/Impossible – Easy means 90%+ win chance assuming you don’t have a terrible draw. Medium means 50%+. Hard means 20%+. Impossible means…ragequit turn one, and try again – faster in the long term.
False God Spoilers (updated)
Akebono – PC/NC - Hard – Akebono now packs Shard of Focus. One of those early on and you probably won’t come back from it. If he gets two out and makes them into black holes, you can’t win. Even without the BH, with SoFo destroying too many towers/dials/glasses and you will be unable to churn your deck while still blocking his attack.
Chaos Lord – NC/PC/CC - Hard – no change to CL, no change to it’s difficulty.
Dark Matter – Impossible – BH kills Instosis
Decay – NCC (Electrocutor)/NPC - Hard – Basically you can’t win this unless Decay draws badly.
Destiny – NCC (rewind)/NPC Easy – Eternity has low damage, so you can chain from ~30 health
Divine Glory – PC/CC – Medium – If he plays a fire tower in the first 3 turns, it’s generally faster to quit.
Dream Catcher – PC/CC – Hard/impossible – too much PC.
Elidnis – NPC/CC – Easy
Eternal Phoenix – PC/CC – Hard/impossible– 25% of Phoenix’s deck is PC (explosion). This is only really winnable if you draw an excess of glasses and a s*** load of towers to get them out early to draw PC fire.
Ferox – NPC/NCC – Easy
Fire Queen – NPC/CC – Easy, but Eagle’s Eye hits hard (7 points) and she has fire lance too, so chain early.
Gemini – NPC/NCC(Electrocutor) – Easy. You don’t need Chimera unless you play a dragon early. You can actually play a dragon early (and safely) – just don’t mitosis it (Electrocutor) and if you do play it, Gemini will shield and you’ll need Chimera.
Graviton – PC/CC – Easy/Medium – Ease depends on how many explosions he finds – 4 in 70 are explosions.
Hecate – NPC/CC – Easy/Medium/Hard – I have found Hecate to be entirely variable based on how much poison how early, and how many rage elixirs she draws. Least consistent of the FGs in my opinion.
Hermes – CC/PC – Impossible – too many explosions by far to make this realistic.
Incarnate – NC/CC/NPC – Easy
Jezebel – CC/PC – Hard – Jezebel may be defeatable once in a rare while, but I tend to skip this one. Too many steals mean that you run out of draw and can’t find a sundial when you need one. I think I’ve had one victory in over 10 games.
Lionheart – CC (rewind)/NPC – Easy – cuddly Lion.
Miracle – NCC/NPC – Easy
Morte – NC/CC – Easy/Medium – Easy if the poison is slow in coming, Medium if it isn’t.
Neptune – CC/NPC – Easy – any 30 cards beats Neptune, after all.
Obliterator – CC/PC – Easy/Impossible – Easy if Pulvy doesn’t turn up til late. Impossible if Pulvy arrives in turns 1-5.
Octane – CC/PC – Hard – I disagree with Sev; I don’t think you can reliably out-draw Octane before the UGs kill you unless you have a blistering opening hand (tower, tower, tower, tower, glass, glass, SN would be nice)
Osiris – NCC/PC – Hard/Impossible – Sofo raises it’s ugly head again.
Paradox – NCC/NPC – Easy. Morning Glory hits like a tank, though, so chain early.
Rainbow – Impossible – you can guarantee he has an answer for everything. Skip.
Scorpio – CC/NPC – Medium – Poison race.
Seism – CC(rewind – but with so little quanta that’s enough)/NPC – Hard – Quanta denial against a deck with only 6 towers. Winnable, but ugly.
Serket – NPC/NCC – Easy – So long as you chain dials early, and have the draw to keep that up, this one isn’t too bad. Don’t forget that you can skip a 3rd or 4th dial (whether or not you have it) and take less damage then you would from chaining too late and picking up early poison.
Hope the above helps.
Good Instosing!
Post by: Wizy on July 25, 2012, 04:14:05 pm
If he plays a SoFo and Trebuchet is in play, he will pult it after a single use unless he has 2 or less :gravity at the end of that turn.
Yesterday, suddenly I felt like going to grind FGs a bit ;P I have encountered Osiris 5~ times using instosis and only lost once when he drew 2 SoFos but no Trebuchet.
Post by: Reid4891 on July 25, 2012, 04:34:14 pm
Post by: Bloom on July 27, 2012, 03:02:44 pm
(http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/738/72877212.png)
Edit: He only started with 1 tower. Probably led to me winning :D
Post by: Chapuz on July 27, 2012, 03:35:43 pm
Here is a crazy win against Akebono when he got an early SoFo. Only used 4 dials.yep, he was slow(http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/738/72877212.png)
Edit: He only started with 1 tower. Probably led to me winning :D
Post by: Reid4891 on July 29, 2012, 06:37:57 am
(http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo233/Reid4891/darkmatter.jpg)
Post by: kimham8a on July 29, 2012, 09:48:39 pm
Want to see a crazy win? :P Here:(http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo233/Reid4891/darkmatter.jpg)
?_? Who- what- how??!!
Did he play any black holes or use the nymph?
Post by: Reid4891 on July 30, 2012, 03:47:50 am
Want to see a crazy win? :P Here:(http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo233/Reid4891/darkmatter.jpg)
?_? Who- what- how??!!
Did he play any black holes or use the nymph?
I plan to post my stats and my opinions very soon (I'm at 265 matches recorded right now), but well yes obviously. My "tactic" (it's not really a tactic since it's gonna work 1 time every 100 matches, but it's not like I had some other options) was to avoid playing supernovas so that its black holes don't kill air quanta (I discarded a hourglasses when I had too many cards). Obviously you both need a good hand loaded with towers and that it can't put out many damage heavy creatures on the ground at the beginning. When it stopped playing black holes and I was pretty sure it was out of it (after 4-5 black holes/turn I think, maybe more maybe less I don't remember clearly) I calculated that I needed 5 turns to win and I'd have a chance only if it played just one black hole (luckily it played the nymph on its 3rd turn, so I had 9 air quanta in my 5th turn because it played a black hole from the nymph at its 4th turn). So I started my first SN plus 2 sundials to increase drawing. In 5th turn I made a singularity, played sky blitz before the last SoR, so that's 201 damage for my chimera. It goes pretty much without saying that I could have been screwed anytime by pretty much anything, like getting the 8 cards combo too soon, not getting the hourglasses soon enough to draw all my deck in 5 turns, it playing a Nymph before turn 3, it drawing another black hole or something else.
Post by: furballdn on August 04, 2012, 01:45:19 am
Post by: Pineapple on August 04, 2012, 02:17:45 am
I just had something epic happen. I was facing Lionheart, and on the last turn, I had 0 cards, played the combo, felt confident, then pressed space. I forgot to sky blitz. The funny thing is, lionheart rewinded two of my dragons, so I didn't die next turn, and I was able to win.
Yeah, we need to fix that.
Post by: Junkers on August 06, 2012, 07:28:51 am
So Instosis has been around a while now, but it is still viable and still in use.
I haven't gotten a single win from this deck vs FG's, and even dropped a few in Arena play. I'm usually dead before I get all the cards needed for the combo. Not a big fan of this deck, although the idea is cool, and it's a rush when it works, but there are other OTK ideas out there that I like more. Of course they suffer from the same problem, hanging on while you wait to build up a 6(ish) card combo.
Post by: Zam888 on August 06, 2012, 08:05:48 am
So Instosis has been around a while now, but it is still viable and still in use.
I haven't gotten a single win from this deck vs FG's, and even dropped a few in Arena play. I'm usually dead before I get all the cards needed for the combo. Not a big fan of this deck, although the idea is cool, and it's a rush when it works, but there are other OTK ideas out there that I like more. Of course they suffer from the same problem, hanging on while you wait to build up a 6(ish) card combo.
If you have ZERO wins then 1 or more of the following applies most likely:
1. Your sample size is small (you've played ~5 games or fewer)
2. Your sample variety is limited (you've played the same high difficulty FG's)
3. You are playing the deck incorrectly
Post by: juan_de_diablo on August 06, 2012, 08:36:06 am
So Instosis has been around a while now, but it is still viable and still in use.
I haven't gotten a single win from this deck vs FG's, and even dropped a few in Arena play. I'm usually dead before I get all the cards needed for the combo. Not a big fan of this deck, although the idea is cool, and it's a rush when it works, but there are other OTK ideas out there that I like more. Of course they suffer from the same problem, hanging on while you wait to build up a 6(ish) card combo.
If you have ZERO wins then 1 or more of the following applies most likely:
1. Your sample size is small (you've played ~5 games or fewer)
2. Your sample variety is limited (you've played the same high difficulty FG's)
3. You are playing the deck incorrectly
It took me a few rounds to get the hang of this deck. Be sure to look at the "Tips" portion of the Instosis wiki. Also, it has break downs for all the FIGS (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,18094.msg529046.html#new) and how you should play against them.
Post by: Reid4891 on August 07, 2012, 03:33:31 pm
(http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo233/Reid4891/aaaaa.jpg)
I'd say that my stats oscillated from 52% to 58% and averaged at about 55%-56% after 300 games... the final 54% is mostly due to the fact that I've not been very lucky with my picks (as you can see the most often picked ones are Seism, Chaos Lord and Jezebel, all with a ratio win below 50%).
Just for the record, assuming a perfect score vs Akebono and Osiris (which was realistically before the introduction of SoFo when Instosis was made) I would have had about 59% wins.
So for me in order of % I can divide them in:
EASY (>75%)
Lionheart
Neptune
Elidnis
Paradox
Miracle
Fire Queen
Destiny
Incarnate
Gemini -> Gemini is a bit slower version of Ferox in term of rashness
MEDIUM (75%-50%)
Graviton
Ferox -> I didn't find Ferox so easy as most people said, it always brought out a lot of creatures very fast and rushed me. A clogged hand can be fatal vs him.
Morte
Obliterator
Serket
Scorpio
HARD (50%-25%)
Seism -> Seism is probably the easiest of the "hard" gods, I played it by playing a time tower at a time, making it use a quicksand on it, then playing another one. I had a score above 50% until the last matches where I kept getting bad draws.
Chaos Lord
Akebono
Octane
Rainbow
Divine Glory
Jezebel
PROIBITIVE (<25%)
Decay
Hermes
Hecate
Osiris
Dark Matter
Dream Catcher -> It always played that damn Discord immediately
Eternal Phoenix -> I wonder how this one can be considered "medium", did they change something?
I will post some more considerations on them later, if you have some questions, feel free to ask.
Post by: willng3 on August 07, 2012, 07:02:46 pm
Quote
I wonder how this one can be considered "medium", did they change something?The AI was buffed after this deck was created, so the permanent targeting priority changed a bit among other things. I don't believe the OP was updated to reflect this. Also, Osiris and Akebonub received SoFo.
Post by: Reid4891 on August 07, 2012, 10:51:32 pm
QuoteI wonder how this one can be considered "medium", did they change something?The AI was buffed after this deck was created, so the permanent targeting priority changed a bit among other things. I don't believe the OP was updated to reflect this. Also, Osiris and Akebonub received SoFo.
Thanks, I didn't know that. I knew about Osiris and Akenobo in fact that's why I wrote in the intro that I'd had about 59% if tested before the SoFo.
Not gonna make another post for it, but I did it again vs Dark Matter!
(http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo233/Reid4891/darkmat2.jpg)
Post by: Bolz on August 10, 2012, 01:16:21 pm
Very nice deck even not upgrated.
Post by: Luminous on August 10, 2012, 02:07:11 pm
It's really an awesome deck. Even for a noob like me, i succeed to built a half upgrated Instosis deck and even beat once Rainbow !Actually,this version is not good when it's unupped. As Supernovas turns to just Novas...
Very nice deck even not upgrated.
Post by: Poker Alho on August 10, 2012, 03:19:53 pm
It's really an awesome deck. Even for a noob like me, i succeed to built a half upgrated Instosis deck and even beat once Rainbow !Actually,this version is not good when it's unupped. As Supernovas turns to just Novas...
Very nice deck even not upgrated.
probably the half that was upgraded included the supernovas, otherwise the deck wouldnt even work --'
Post by: makapse on August 14, 2012, 10:18:18 am
Post by: Luminous on August 14, 2012, 01:41:55 pm
I just wanted to ask if i should upgrade SoR first or sundials.I have the entire rest of the deck upped.I'd say SoRs but upping sundials are reasonable ONLY against Decay,though. So,economy first
Post by: umgrego2 on August 14, 2012, 02:27:33 pm
I just wanted to ask if i should upgrade SoR first or sundials.I have the entire rest of the deck upped.
Definitely SoR - Some even argue that you should use unupped sundials in this deck because upped sundials might mess with your chances of getting a pillar in your opening hand.
Post by: Assassine on August 14, 2012, 05:19:56 pm
Question: Is there a Skip-Guide for Instosis somewhere?
Post by: omegareaper7 on August 14, 2012, 05:23:44 pm
Upped dials might mess with your air quanta though.What? Upped dials don't effect air quanta at all.
Question: Is there a Skip-Guide for Instosis somewhere?
And skip guide should be in the opener.
Post by: Assassine on August 14, 2012, 06:22:03 pm
Post by: kimham8a on August 14, 2012, 06:25:38 pm
was supposed to say unupped dials of course, sorry.Are you referring to mulligan for supernovas for air quanta, time quanta, or something else entirely?
Post by: Luminous on August 14, 2012, 06:27:00 pm
Post by: Pineapple on August 14, 2012, 06:28:00 pm
was supposed to say unupped dials of course, sorry.
Both unupped dials and upped dials do not interfere with air quanta at all.
Skip guide is on reid's last message. Sevs should give credit and add it,lol :)
There's already an FG-by-FG breakdown on the opening post...just skip all the Impossible gods or all the Impossible and Hard gods.
Post by: Assassine on August 14, 2012, 06:39:53 pm
was supposed to say unupped dials of course, sorry.Are you referring to mulligan for supernovas for air quanta, time quanta, or something else entirely?
never mind, somehow i was thinking unupped dial cost would be 1 random quantum.
Post by: Reid4891 on August 14, 2012, 08:25:17 pm
Post by: Assassine on August 14, 2012, 09:23:56 pm
Post by: redeyesly on August 15, 2012, 05:08:57 pm
Post by: Bloom on August 15, 2012, 05:25:31 pm
I've been using this deck pretty successfully against FGs. I like it because it beats a few of them that my other grinders have always auto skipped. But I've been having zero luck against plat or gold arena. Everyone either has too much pc, or too many shards of divinity putting their hp way over 200. Have I just been unlucky? Does anyone grind arena with this anymore?
Most deckbuilders in Gold and Plat are aware that an easy counter to Instosis is SoFo and/or Stone Skin/SoD. Almost any deck now contains them, so I say don't try to farm Arena with Instosis. Metagame changes quickly.
Post by: Assassine on August 17, 2012, 11:07:14 am
Post by: kimham8a on August 19, 2012, 04:00:33 am
Post by: eaglgenes101 on August 19, 2012, 04:04:18 am
Post by: kimham8a on August 19, 2012, 04:31:19 am
Post by: Absol on August 19, 2012, 04:35:05 am
Generally, follow it. Unless you can draw the whole deck using the dials and the glasses, then freely chain.
Post by: ddevans96 on August 19, 2012, 04:37:17 am
Play the nova and get the sing. You won't care much about it unless the game drags on without the dial.
Early in the game? No, sing will traipse all over you.
The best option in that case is sometimes to discard. Chimera against gods without shields that affect you, one supernova against gods without quanta control, one hourglass if your hand has more and you have plenty of dials. Comes down to situation.
If you have many dials in hand against a god without really fast damage, it could also be worth it to just play the spare dial and draw with it if you can.
But I've never had a case where getting a sing is better than a discard in the early game. On the turn you win, or maybe even a turn before, yes.
Post by: eaglgenes101 on August 19, 2012, 04:47:15 am
Post by: ddevans96 on August 19, 2012, 05:39:27 am
In the case that you don't need it, I'd rather discard in case everything goes wrong and your chain breaks, or it's destroyed.
I suppose it could pay off occasionally though,
Post by: bob t billdr on August 19, 2012, 06:16:32 am
I know most of it is my problem, not knowing exactly when to chain my dials, when to discard or go ahead and get singularity, or other general adjustment-to-new-deck syndrome problems. I don't actually have the full upped deck though. I have 6 upped SoRe and 5 upped Nova... That's about it :-X
The only way I could make enough coins quick to up most of the deck would be to sell my RoL/Hope (My only deck, which is fully upped)
My question is:
FOR FG GRINDING ONLY, If I had all Novas upped, SoRe upped, Dragon upped, and 10 - 15 other upped cards, would the deck preform decently? Or at least better than a fully upped RoL/Hope (archangels with no upped Hope of course ;))?
Would a half-upped Instosis give me a higher Win/Loss than an upped RoL/Hope?
Post by: furballdn on August 19, 2012, 06:19:03 am
Post by: Junkers on August 19, 2012, 06:29:42 am
My question is:
FOR FG GRINDING ONLY, If I had all Novas upped, SoRe upped, Dragon upped, and 10 - 15 other upped cards, would the deck preform decently? Or at least better than a fully upped RoL/Hope (archangels with no upped Hope of course ;))?
Would a half-upped Instosis give me a higher Win/Loss than an upped RoL/Hope?
You definitely need upped dials for Instosis to work vs FG's. I think maybe Chimera and Mitosis can be un-upped without hurting the deck, but Sky Blitz, dials, towers and everything else pretty much needs to be upped.
Post by: bob t billdr on August 19, 2012, 06:30:26 am
Gonna sell the RoL/Hope, and hope I break over 25,000 coins.
Post by: furballdn on August 19, 2012, 06:31:45 am
Nope. Some people run it without upped dials to not mess with mulligan. Instosis is totally doable without upped dials, although I definitely recommend you get upped towers if you do use unupped dials. Chimera and mitosis can be used unupped yes, and sky blitz should be upped. Towers are actually pretty important though.My question is:
FOR FG GRINDING ONLY, If I had all Novas upped, SoRe upped, Dragon upped, and 10 - 15 other upped cards, would the deck preform decently? Or at least better than a fully upped RoL/Hope (archangels with no upped Hope of course ;))?
Would a half-upped Instosis give me a higher Win/Loss than an upped RoL/Hope?
You definitely need upped dials for Instosis to work vs FG's. I think maybe Chimera and Mitosis can be un-upped without hurting the deck, but Sky Blitz, dials, towers and everything else pretty much needs to be upped.
Selling RoL/Hope will net you what? 30k or something?
Post by: justaburd on August 19, 2012, 06:51:41 am
@furball about 34.5K (30K+15% of 30K)
Post by: bob t billdr on August 19, 2012, 07:03:02 am
I'd say stick with RoL hope. It has a winrate pretty close to instosis that it's not that big a difference until you can make instosis fully upped.
@furball about 34.5K (30K+15% of 30K)
Up until now, it was doing absolutely great.
But for whatever reason, all day today and all of tonight, I have beaten a whopping 11 FG's. (out of at least 30-35)
Post by: justaburd on August 19, 2012, 07:05:35 am
Just a bad luck streak then.I'd say stick with RoL hope. It has a winrate pretty close to instosis that it's not that big a difference until you can make instosis fully upped.
@furball about 34.5K (30K+15% of 30K)
Up until now, it was doing absolutely great.
But for whatever reason, all day today and all of tonight, I have beaten a whopping 11 FG's. (out of at least 30-35)
Post by: bob t billdr on August 19, 2012, 07:40:53 am
Done with RoL/Hope. At least until Instosis makes me enough to rebuild it >_>
Sold RoL-Hope (Except the Electrocutors)
Now have
Let's see what happens now >_>
Post by: Reid4891 on August 19, 2012, 08:09:14 pm
I've played about 60 games with it and have maybe a 40% win/loss for some reason. (been playing around with it on the trainer)
I know most of it is my problem, not knowing exactly when to chain my dials, when to discard or go ahead and get singularity, or other general adjustment-to-new-deck syndrome problems.
This is something you can only figure it out by yourself with a lot of playing, since there is not a specific perfect moment to start chaining. It mostly depends from 1) your hand, 2) the amount of PC the god have. I put a study on 500 games that you can look to see if you're going particularly bad vs some god, feel free to ask me any question on specific gods and i'll tell you what my strategy is. It's here: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32309.msg530261.html#msg530261
Also semi-upped Instosis works generally fine and I lot better from RoL/Hope, at least from my experience. I'd up cards in this order (besides SN and Dragon) -> Hourglass, Towers, Skyblitz, SoR, Sundials, Mitosis, Chimera.
Post by: Luminous on August 20, 2012, 09:22:23 am
Chimera has more cost than mitosis. Upping it first decreases SoR's absorbing :gravity to make you not play the chimera. So,chimera first.I've played about 60 games with it and have maybe a 40% win/loss for some reason. (been playing around with it on the trainer)
I know most of it is my problem, not knowing exactly when to chain my dials, when to discard or go ahead and get singularity, or other general adjustment-to-new-deck syndrome problems.
This is something you can only figure it out by yourself with a lot of playing, since there is not a specific perfect moment to start chaining. It mostly depends from 1) your hand, 2) the amount of PC the god have. I put a study on 500 games that you can look to see if you're going particularly bad vs some god, feel free to ask me any question on specific gods and i'll tell you what my strategy is. It's here: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32309.msg530261.html#msg530261
Also semi-upped Instosis works generally fine and I lot better from RoL/Hope, at least from my experience. I'd up cards in this order (besides SN and Dragon) -> Hourglass, Towers, Skyblitz, SoR, Sundials, Mitosis, Chimera.
Post by: Calindu on August 20, 2012, 09:30:17 am
Chimera has more cost than mitosis. Upping it first decreases SoR's absorbing :gravity to make you not play the chimera. So,chimera first.I've played about 60 games with it and have maybe a 40% win/loss for some reason. (been playing around with it on the trainer)
I know most of it is my problem, not knowing exactly when to chain my dials, when to discard or go ahead and get singularity, or other general adjustment-to-new-deck syndrome problems.
This is something you can only figure it out by yourself with a lot of playing, since there is not a specific perfect moment to start chaining. It mostly depends from 1) your hand, 2) the amount of PC the god have. I put a study on 500 games that you can look to see if you're going particularly bad vs some god, feel free to ask me any question on specific gods and i'll tell you what my strategy is. It's here: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,32309.msg530261.html#msg530261
Also semi-upped Instosis works generally fine and I lot better from RoL/Hope, at least from my experience. I'd up cards in this order (besides SN and Dragon) -> Hourglass, Towers, Skyblitz, SoR, Sundials, Mitosis, Chimera.
You play Mitosis first, and you play Chimera after Sky Blitz, your point here is invalid.
Post by: Absol on August 20, 2012, 10:07:13 am
Chimera has a risk of not being able to be played because it is played after playing SoR (which may eat your :gravity)
Mitosis? Well, the :life needed can't be absorbed by SoR since you cost SoR after the Mitosis.
Post by: Reid4891 on August 20, 2012, 01:31:14 pm
Still... my 2 cents:
No, Chimera upped first.
Chimera has a risk of not being able to be played because it is played after playing SoR (which may eat your :gravity)
Mitosis? Well, the :life needed can't be absorbed by SoR since you cost SoR after the Mitosis.
All valid points, but if you have Dragon+Mitosis upped you can play them after 2 SN (and other 8 :time total). This can make a little difference vs Serket or Divine Glory that don't have CC (not really vs Ferox and Miracle but still...) and also you can "gamble" the combo sooner vs FG with heavy PC where your dials risk to be destroyed (and you don't have all the 7-8 cards). There are pro and cons for both upped first, but I think those are very limited situations that can rarely occur.
Post by: furballdn on August 20, 2012, 06:34:53 pm
Post by: Luminous on August 20, 2012, 06:37:08 pm
Unupped chimera costs 7 :gravity. If you used up all 6 SNs, you'll have more than enough quanta to cast it (I highly doubt 4 SoRs will absorb 6 :gravity when each SoR absorbs an average of .25 :gravity, making you have an average of 11). Even if you only cast 5SN, the chances of not being able to cast sky blitz is less than not being able to cast chimera. In all my games playing with instosis, I've used an unupped chimera because I was too lazy to up it. I never once ran out of :gravity.Me either but being perfectionist is great,too.
Post by: bob t billdr on August 21, 2012, 02:09:42 am
Please explain. His SoFo eat my sundials like f*&%ing Skittles.
Post by: willng3 on August 21, 2012, 02:14:23 am
Akebono - Easy - Need Chimera - Start Sundial chain above 50 HP because of Titan.The guide was created before Akebono (and Osiris) was given SoFo.
Please explain. His SoFo eat my sundials like f*&%ing Skittles.
Expect a few things in the guide to be a bit off due to it not having been updated for some time.
Post by: bob t billdr on August 21, 2012, 02:19:52 am
Akebono - Easy - Need Chimera - Start Sundial chain above 50 HP because of Titan.The guide was created before Akebono (and Osiris) was given SoFo.
Please explain. His SoFo eat my sundials like f*&%ing Skittles.
Expect a few things in the guide to be a bit off due to it not having been updated for some time.
I realized this just before i saw your post. xD sorry for dumb post, guys.
Post by: bob t billdr on August 21, 2012, 06:34:19 am
So, right now, I have switced all of my Upped Sundials with Unupped Sundials. More :time Towers in the opening hand. Mulligan and whatnot.
Also, I switced one hourglass for an Enchant Artifact. I'm sure others have tried this before me, but I just wanted to say, in my case, it has been working alot more for me. Makes Akebono, Oblitorator, and Jezebel at least a non auto-quit. So if, by any chance, someone else is a n00b like me, maybe this will help!
Post by: Reid4891 on August 21, 2012, 12:05:08 pm
Hey guys, I know I probably post too much, but as I am getting a little better with the deck and learn a litte better what to play and when, I have switched a card out once or twice. I had a HORRID luck of 90% of the time never drawing a :time tower until around turn 5, and by that time, I had to discard Hourglasses (which, for some reason, I had absolutely no trouble drawing).
So, right now, I have switced all of my Upped Sundials with Unupped Sundials. More :time Towers in the opening hand. Mulligan and whatnot.
Also, I switced one hourglass for an Enchant Artifact. I'm sure others have tried this before me, but I just wanted to say, in my case, it has been working alot more for me. Makes Akebono, Oblitorator, and Jezebel at least a non auto-quit. So if, by any chance, someone else is a n00b like me, maybe this will help!
Obliterator is 14/8/1 for me with the "classic" Instosis. Why one should auto-quit it? And even if they aren't easy opponents, same for Akebono and Jezebel.
Post by: kimham8a on August 22, 2012, 02:56:42 am
Hey guys, I know I probably post too much, but as I am getting a little better with the deck and learn a litte better what to play and when, I have switched a card out once or twice. I had a HORRID luck of 90% of the time never drawing a :time tower until around turn 5, and by that time, I had to discard Hourglasses (which, for some reason, I had absolutely no trouble drawing).
So, right now, I have switced all of my Upped Sundials with Unupped Sundials. More :time Towers in the opening hand. Mulligan and whatnot.
Also, I switced one hourglass for an Enchant Artifact. I'm sure others have tried this before me, but I just wanted to say, in my case, it has been working alot more for me. Makes Akebono, Oblitorator, and Jezebel at least a non auto-quit. So if, by any chance, someone else is a n00b like me, maybe this will help!
Obliterator is 14/8/1 for me with the "classic" Instosis. Why one should auto-quit it? And even if they aren't easy opponents, same for Akebono and Jezebel.
Wow. Either I've never played this deck correctly or the RNG did something to one of us. How do you stand one PC being destroyed every turn?
Post by: eaglgenes101 on August 22, 2012, 03:10:05 am
You don't need to worry about PC until pulvy comes out, and it's only 1 shot per turn.Hey guys, I know I probably post too much, but as I am getting a little better with the deck and learn a litte better what to play and when, I have switched a card out once or twice. I had a HORRID luck of 90% of the time never drawing a :time tower until around turn 5, and by that time, I had to discard Hourglasses (which, for some reason, I had absolutely no trouble drawing).
So, right now, I have switced all of my Upped Sundials with Unupped Sundials. More :time Towers in the opening hand. Mulligan and whatnot.
Also, I switced one hourglass for an Enchant Artifact. I'm sure others have tried this before me, but I just wanted to say, in my case, it has been working alot more for me. Makes Akebono, Oblitorator, and Jezebel at least a non auto-quit. So if, by any chance, someone else is a n00b like me, maybe this will help!
Obliterator is 14/8/1 for me with the "classic" Instosis. Why one should auto-quit it? And even if they aren't easy opponents, same for Akebono and Jezebel.
Wow. Either I've never played this deck correctly or the RNG did something to one of us. How do you stand one PC being destroyed every turn?
Post by: Reid4891 on August 22, 2012, 10:24:33 pm
Hey guys, I know I probably post too much, but as I am getting a little better with the deck and learn a litte better what to play and when, I have switched a card out once or twice. I had a HORRID luck of 90% of the time never drawing a :time tower until around turn 5, and by that time, I had to discard Hourglasses (which, for some reason, I had absolutely no trouble drawing).
So, right now, I have switced all of my Upped Sundials with Unupped Sundials. More :time Towers in the opening hand. Mulligan and whatnot.
Also, I switced one hourglass for an Enchant Artifact. I'm sure others have tried this before me, but I just wanted to say, in my case, it has been working alot more for me. Makes Akebono, Oblitorator, and Jezebel at least a non auto-quit. So if, by any chance, someone else is a n00b like me, maybe this will help!
Obliterator is 14/8/1 for me with the "classic" Instosis. Why one should auto-quit it? And even if they aren't easy opponents, same for Akebono and Jezebel.
Wow. Either I've never played this deck correctly or the RNG did something to one of us. How do you stand one PC being destroyed every turn?
If opponent has no Pulvy in starting hand, you have a quite good chance of winning. If it plays one out soon just keep hourglasses and sundials on hand until you're almost screwed then play all hourglasses and two sundials for turn (but it can depend on how it's going, how many monsters there are out, etc.). You need luck in this case, but it's definitely not as bad as many other FGs.
Post by: taubej05 on August 25, 2012, 01:20:04 pm
Post by: Reid4891 on August 26, 2012, 04:18:19 pm
Again, not so different from 500 matches, been on 55% for most of the time then dropped to 54% with not very good picks. Having Seism, Chaos Lord, Jezebel, Rainbow and Decay as the only Gods faced 40+ times isn't very helpful for the scores.
Just for the record, assuming a perfect score vs Akebono and Osiris (which was realistically before the introduction of SoFo when Instosis was made) I would have had 58,1% wins.
Some adjustments from 500 test:
EASY (>75%)
Lionheart -> RAWR! My favorite puppy!
Paradox
Neptune
Miracle
Destiny
Elidnis
Gemini -> Gemini is a bit slower version of Ferox in term of rashness
Fire Queen
Serket -> Awesome come back in the top tier for Serket!
MEDIUM (75%-50%)
Incarnate
Ferox -> I didn't find Ferox so easy as most people said, it always brought out a lot of creatures very fast and rushed me. A clogged hand can be fatal vs him.
Morte
Scorpio
Obliterator
Graviton
HARD (50%-25%)
Seism -> Seism is probably the easiest of the "hard" gods, I played it by playing a time tower at a time, making it use a quicksand on it, then playing another one. I had a score above 50% until the last matches where I kept getting bad draws.
Akebono
Chaos Lord
Divine Glory
Jezebel
Octane
Rainbow
Decay
Osiris
PROIBITIVE (<25%)
Hermes
Eternal Phoenix -> finally a couple of wins even against it!
Hecate
Dark Matter
Dream Catcher -> It' still my #1 enemy.
Post by: jumpingbeans on August 26, 2012, 06:08:22 pm
Post by: Calindu on August 26, 2012, 06:36:22 pm
I just realized now I have the four Shards of Readiness. :) So, you need the Dragon and SNs upped, and after that the Hourglasses. What next? Chimaera/Sky Blitz, I'd presume?
You should upgrade the towers for sure, really speeds up the play.
Post by: taubej05 on August 26, 2012, 08:06:40 pm
Post by: Sevs on September 20, 2012, 10:16:25 pm
(http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo233/Reid4891/insto1000.jpg)Again, not so different from 500 matches, been on 55% for most of the time then dropped to 54% with not very good picks. Having Seism, Chaos Lord, Jezebel, Rainbow and Decay as the only Gods faced 40+ times isn't very helpful for the scores.
Just for the record, assuming a perfect score vs Akebono and Osiris (which was realistically before the introduction of SoFo when Instosis was made) I would have had 58,1% wins.
That is a shit ton of games congrats
Post by: Pyrodinium on September 21, 2012, 01:08:44 am
By the way, Destiny has a VERY slight chance of spawning an Armagio from her Fate Egg so the Chimera might come handy.
Post by: mikpj on October 04, 2012, 12:41:58 am
Post by: eaglgenes101 on October 04, 2012, 12:53:05 am
So I was enjoying a semi upped gold league killer deck and now I have decided to switch to this deck. Lets see what happens.You'll likely be run over by SoF. Use it on plat.
Post by: whatifidogetcaught? on October 04, 2012, 02:37:34 am
Post by: mikpj on October 05, 2012, 12:58:49 am
So I was enjoying a semi upped gold league killer deck and now I have decided to switch to this deck. Lets see what happens.You'll likely be run over by SoF. Use it on plat.
I want another fun deck without being a OTK deck
Post by: choongmyoung on October 05, 2012, 05:23:46 am
you'll need chimera against any DR shields, but anyway it works.
Post by: ddevans96 on October 05, 2012, 03:31:45 pm
Post by: Ephesar on October 08, 2012, 12:44:55 pm
I have a quick question:
how does the new rule for supernovas influence the instosis deck? Is it a problem that you can only play one supernova per turn safely or doesn't it make any big difference?
I'm asking because i am considering to upgrade about 15 cards to have the "original" instosis deck.
And another question: are there any rumors about nerfs that would touch this deck? I would think that the supernova nerf, the sundial nerf and maybe to some degree the max 75 quanta rule had impacts on the efficiency of instosis.
I searched the forum and couldn't find any answers to these questions. Please excuse me if i have overlooked them somehow. Maybe you would like to point out the relevant thread for me.
Thanks a lot,
i really appreciate the community for all the great tips in the forum and in the wiki. It makes elements special as a game.
Greetz,
Ephesar
Post by: choongmyoung on October 08, 2012, 12:48:25 pm
Hi everybody!
I have a quick question:
how does the new rule for supernovas influence the instosis deck? Is it a problem that you can only play one supernova per turn safely or doesn't it make any big difference?
I'm asking because i am considering to upgrade about 15 cards to have the "original" instosis deck.
And another question: are there any rumors about nerfs that would touch this deck? I would think that the supernova nerf, the sundial nerf and maybe to some degree the max 75 quanta rule had impacts on the efficiency of instosis.
I searched the forum and couldn't find any answers to these questions. Please excuse me if i have overlooked them somehow. Maybe you would like to point out the relevant thread for me.
Thanks a lot,
i really appreciate the community for all the great tips in the forum and in the wiki. It makes elements special as a game.
Greetz,
Ephesar
Actually, It doesn't matter. If you have to use 2 SN in a row, just use them.
1 Singularity + Chimera is still over 200, 2 Singularities are, 3 are,, Even without the Chimera, Singularity do not matter to your win.
75 Quanta cap is not related to this deck. No quanta will grow above 75 in Instosis, Never.
Post by: Reid4891 on October 08, 2012, 02:41:05 pm
But still I think there is no big difference, you still need at least 6-7 rounds in order to play the combo, so there isn't a particular reason to play 2 SN in the same round in a normal situation. If the situation requires it, just play according to it (you can even play 3-4 SN in a row and play chimera if you don't need it after, since they are gonna be killed and save you a little damage from enemy creatures).
Post by: Ephesar on October 08, 2012, 02:54:59 pm
Thanks for the quick answers!
I think you are both right. In most of the games with an instosis deck the sn-limitation wont make any difference. And if you are really about to kill the FG in the next round, you can just "risk it".
Thanks a lot!
Gee,
Ephesar
Post by: pulli23 on October 08, 2012, 03:15:52 pm
Actually I disagree on previous comment. Singularity can auto-duplicate them, became vampire (dealing damage to you when they attack), play chaos power on themselves, adrenaline, etc. A vampire+adrenaline singularity deals to you a lot of damage and can kill you before your dragons start to attack. You shouldn't use two SN in a row unless you're planning to win in this or next round. Don't make a singularity at the start, definitely.
But still I think there is no big difference, you still need at least 6-7 rounds in order to play the combo, so there isn't a particular reason to play 2 SN in the same round in a normal situation. If the situation requires it, just play according to it (you can even play 3-4 SN in a row and play chimera if you don't need it after, since they are gonna be killed and save you a little damage from enemy creatures).
Well in last turn you obviously FIRST create the dragons/combo - THEN use the extra supernovas (just before activating sky blitz). That way singularities won't do anything at all.
Post by: furballdn on October 09, 2012, 05:34:20 am
how does the new rule for supernovas influence the instosis deck? Is it a problem that you can only play one supernova per turn safely or doesn't it make any big difference?
Not that big actually. It might slow you down a bit in the beginning, but you can chain sundials to stop your singularities from hurting you, and as long as your hp isn't too low, just pull off the combo. The negative attack singularities will act before your instosis combo that deals >200 damage happens
And another question: are there any rumors about nerfs that would touch this deck? I would think that the supernova nerf, the sundial nerf and maybe to some degree the max 75 quanta rule had impacts on the efficiency of instosis.
As stated above, SN nerf barely hurts it. The sundial nerf which makes AIs target sundials does hurt this more, and especially with 2 FGs getting SoFo. However, this still remains one of the best FG farmers even after these nerfs. The quanta cap does not affect this at all (You could put the quanta cap at 20 and still instosis won't suffer
Post by: Ephesar on October 09, 2012, 12:05:40 pm
Thanks for your reply!
You are obiously right, the quanta cap doesn't touch this deck. Should have thought of that before.
From what I read, instosis really seems to be the best fg-farmer. Although I was thinking about an aether deck, too. But the instosis deck thread on this forum has some great suggestions how to bolster the deck up against certain fg with only a few more upgraded cards.
All the best,
Ephesar
Post by: pulli23 on October 09, 2012, 12:22:15 pm
how does the new rule for supernovas influence the instosis deck? Is it a problem that you can only play one supernova per turn safely or doesn't it make any big difference?
Not that big actually. It might slow you down a bit in the beginning, but you can chain sundials to stop your singularities from hurting you, and as long as your hp isn't too low, just pull off the combo. The negative attack singularities will act before your instosis combo that deals >200 damage happens
And another question: are there any rumors about nerfs that would touch this deck? I would think that the supernova nerf, the sundial nerf and maybe to some degree the max 75 quanta rule had impacts on the efficiency of instosis.
As stated above, SN nerf barely hurts it. The sundial nerf which makes AIs target sundials does hurt this more, and especially with 2 FGs getting SoFo. However, this still remains one of the best FG farmers even after these nerfs. The quanta cap does not affect this at all (You could put the quanta cap at 20 and still instosis won't suffer
Well supernova nerf does hurt in the sense that you can't spam it at turn 3 to get quickly 3 hourglasses out..
I myself am now running a 31-card variant with an extra tower splashed in, and un-upgrading 2 sundials (so 4 upgraded now instead of earlier 6). The QI is exactly the same, however now muligan never screws me over anymore - making the EFFECTIVE time quantum actually higher. Only problem now is that I have a slightly less chance on hourglasses - and you need to draw 1 more (though I often still find myself having a "left over" draw at the last turn so the 31 card version isn't slower).
Post by: choongmyoung on October 09, 2012, 01:09:54 pm
I myself am now running a 31-card variant with an extra tower splashed in, and un-upgrading 2 sundials (so 4 upgraded now instead of earlier 6).Nice idea though. I found that 6 unupped sundials seems even more solid, since you will always have the tower from first. I'll use this version instead. Thanks a lot.
Post by: Reid4891 on October 09, 2012, 02:01:48 pm
There is pro and con, since you have to spend 6 :time to play 6 unupped sundials. It seems irrelevant, but it's not, trust me, especially against rush decks. Also not having sundials nor horuglasses at the start on your hand can be more fatal than not having towers.I myself am now running a 31-card variant with an extra tower splashed in, and un-upgrading 2 sundials (so 4 upgraded now instead of earlier 6).Nice idea though. I found that 6 unupped sundials seems even more solid, since you will always have the tower from first. I'll use this version instead. Thanks a lot.
Btw, last FG game today ;D :
(http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo233/Reid4891/darkmatta.jpg)
Post by: kimham8a on October 09, 2012, 10:10:25 pm
Hey furballdn!
Thanks for your reply!
You are obiously right, the quanta cap doesn't touch this deck. Should have thought of that before.
From what I read, instosis really seems to be the best fg-farmer (on the forum anyway). Although I was thinking about an aether deck, too. But the instosis deck thread on this forum has some great suggestions how to bolster the deck up against certain fg with only a few more upgraded cards.
All the best,
Ephesar
Poison Dials took the title of best FG farmer a while ago. It also EM's constantly with extra HP with SoD.
Post by: Ephesar on October 10, 2012, 10:17:51 am
Nice to know!
As I have all the cards needed for the instosis deck (at least unupgraded) I think I will stick with that one.
Sadly, I do not own 6 shards of sacrifice :-)
Maybe if I'd had the cards, I would go for the poison stall deck.
Thanks and greetz,
Ephesar
Post by: Poker Alho on October 10, 2012, 04:01:03 pm
Hey furballdn!
Thanks for your reply!
You are obiously right, the quanta cap doesn't touch this deck. Should have thought of that before.
From what I read, instosis really seems to be the best fg-farmer (on the forum anyway). Although I was thinking about an aether deck, too. But the instosis deck thread on this forum has some great suggestions how to bolster the deck up against certain fg with only a few more upgraded cards.
All the best,
Ephesar
Poison Dials took the title of best FG farmer a while ago. It also EM's constantly with extra HP with SoD.
i might have to disagree with you there, Instosis may have a smaller win-rate but it has a much faster ttw. Not sure how much electrum both decks can earn you in an hour, but taking in consideration that you win the most money from selling upped cards from spins, i would say Instosis is still the way to go to farm FGs
Post by: Sevs on October 10, 2012, 04:07:24 pm
Hey furballdn!
Thanks for your reply!
You are obiously right, the quanta cap doesn't touch this deck. Should have thought of that before.
From what I read, instosis really seems to be the best fg-farmer (on the forum anyway). Although I was thinking about an aether deck, too. But the instosis deck thread on this forum has some great suggestions how to bolster the deck up against certain fg with only a few more upgraded cards.
All the best,
Ephesar
Poison Dials took the title of best FG farmer a while ago. It also EM's constantly with extra HP with SoD.
i might have to disagree with you there, Instosis may have a smaller win-rate but it has a much faster ttw. Not sure how much electrum both decks can earn you in an hour, but taking in consideration that you win the most money from selling upped cards from spins, i would say Instosis is still the way to go to farm FGs
From the stats it is 40 electrum better per hour, which means it is too close to tell as RNG plays a part. The difference in game time with skips is actually only 15 seconds between the two.
Post by: Reid4891 on October 10, 2012, 11:06:56 pm
I've been doing a lot better in this new update (partial of these last 500 games is 57%), having reached also 55,5% for a little while, then dropped to the definitive 55,07%. Chaos Lord took the scepter of the most frequent FG from Seism and I added a trend ( I increased my win ratio the most with Hecate, and decreased it the most with Jezebel).
Some adjustments from 1000 test:
EASY (>75%)
Lionheart -> RAWR! My favorite puppy!
Paradox
Neptune
Miracle
Elidnis
Destiny
Gemini -> Gemini is a bit slower version of Ferox in term of rashness
Serket -> It keeps getting easier and easier for me
Fire Queen
Incarnate -> New entry!
Ferox -> New entry!
MEDIUM (75%-50%)
Morte
Scorpio
Obliterator
Seism -> I play it by playing a time tower at turn, making it use a quicksand on it, then playing another one. Use at most one Hourglasses unless it dropped many creatures fast.
Akebono -> I had some interesting matches vs him. In one it made a Chimera at the middle of the game, I didn't have sundials anymore nor enough SoR but still played the combo without playing my Blitz and Chimera. Result: its chimera destroyed. Even if it can overdrive your mitosed Dragon in the next turn you can still probably win in 2 turns (it can't probably make a comeback without creatures unless it's very lucky with the draws). So my tip is: start to play sundials by turn 2, try to rush your hand and keep your health at max.
Graviton
HARD (50%-25%)
Divine Glory -> imho it's better to play fast with Sundials from turn 2 here.
Chaos Lord -> it would be A LOT easier without that damn Discord.
Octane
Jezebel -> I'm trying an experiment on it (not really going well), still working in progress.
Rainbow
Decay -> If you start the game, and you have at least 2 towers, 1 SN and 1 hourglass (yeah I know it's not very often), play Hourglasses on round 2. It will steal your Hourglasses instead of playing a Pest, which means your quanta won't be drained and you can play your SN.
Osiris -> Stop playing stuff when it plays a SoFo and hope for it to be catapulted. Still not a good FG to face.
Hermes -> I wonder how I got it so high, my face everytime I see it as an opponent is >:(
PROHIBITIVE (<25%)
Hecate -> Oh this got a lot better (almost +10%). But I really don't know why, didn't really changed strategy, probably just luck.
Eternal Phoenix
Dark Matter
Dream Catcher -> It' still my #1 enemy.
Post by: Joe21 on October 11, 2012, 07:01:10 am
I'd like to know what version of Instosis are you using and, since your incredible experience with this deck, detailed playing tips for every FG that noobish player like me could use instead of the one in the OP.
It
would be great!
Post by: pulli23 on October 11, 2012, 10:19:47 am
On a second note: how the hell did you get so high vs rainbow. He's like my worst nightmare as he can screw you over at any point in the game. (compared to chaos lord who isn't actual hard imo after you got supernovae out). Really that massive amount of CC takes away each and every hourglass. Even dreamcatcher is "easier" - just play till you see a butterfly effect.
Lost 2 times in a row to lionheart thanks to all my hourglasses in last 8 cards -.-
Post by: Reid4891 on October 11, 2012, 11:28:58 am
Reid, your guide is simply awesome!
I'd like to know what version of Instosis are you using and, since your incredible experience with this deck, detailed playing tips for every FG that noobish player like me could use instead of the one in the OP.
I would be great!
I'm using the classic version, the one posted in the OP. 30 cards and sundials all upped.
I think Sevs suggestions are all pretty good, maybe with the exceptions of some hard FGs, but well it's hard to determinate a nice strategy for them since beating them really depends on your luck most of the time. I'll try to upgrading it if I can exploit some strategy.
@reid: as I said I added 1 tower, making it 31 cards. So as (normally) each tower brings at least 2 time quantum, swapping out the sundials is not "negative". & thanks to the mulligan I can prevent seism of demolishing all my towers - I get enough in start hand to play them 1 by 1 and keep a few for some turns.
On a second note: how the hell did you get so high vs rainbow. He's like my worst nightmare as he can screw you over at any point in the game. (compared to chaos lord who isn't actual hard imo after you got supernovae out). Really that massive amount of CC takes away each and every hourglass. Even dreamcatcher is "easier" - just play till you see a butterfly effect.
Lost 2 times in a row to lionheart thanks to all my hourglasses in last 8 cards -.-
Well I think there are pro and con, as always. It happened to me to having lost to Ferox, Scorpion, Gemini, Incarnate too many time for my taste in 6 turns for having got 0/1 sundials at the beginning and nothing more. Also whenever in a 30 cards deck I draw the sundial that is gonna save my ass with my last hourglass draw, it means it couldn't have happened in a 31 cards deck. But well... I'm almost positive that if I'd play 1500 games with your deck I'd probably get a same/similar win ratio (don't ask me to do it, though :P).
I lost to Lionheart today too for my 1st time. Most clogged hand of all times.
For Rainbow, I agree it's more chaotic than Chaos Lord. Too bad I delete it, but I had a screenshot of a "rushed" game I almost pull an EM (it played a Eye at the last turn and I went to 93/100 health), darn. I basically have two strategies that are based on a couple of factors: number of my towers/hourglasses/sundials, its numbers of towers (2+ or 2-), its actual :fire but mostly :darkness quanta poll. Strategy 1: everything out asap in round 2 and try to rush your hand as fast as possible. Strategy 2: play only 1/2 tower (more only if you'd discard otherwise), it usually targets it/them immediately if they're only 1/2 with Steal/Explosions. Try to make it waste all those cards on your towers, then when it seemed they ended play hourglass(es) (max 2, you need to save :time) and sundials. Luckily it should target Hourglass when it draws another additional Steal/Eplosion. But still you're right: everything can be screwed anytime in a single turn, especially, but not only, if you went for Strategy 1.
Pic for strategy 1 (reason for strategy 1 is him having played all cards by turn 2 with only 1 hourglass out; I had 2 towers, 2 sundials, 1 hourglasses at start, so I've been to rush all my deck with him being able only to steal 1 hourglass from me):
(http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo233/Reid4891/rainbowpic1.jpg)
Pic for strategy 2:
(http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo233/Reid4891/rainbowstrategy2.jpg)
Post by: Reid4891 on October 17, 2012, 06:24:10 pm
Now in technicolor (obviously Dark Green -> Light Green -> Yellow -> Orange -> Red). Not a great session (partial 53,2%), I even got 4 losses vs Lionheart and some really screwed hands in general. Still I kind of managed a new interesting tactic (vs difficult FG that don't need Chimera and you have it, you can start chaining Sundials soon and play all the SN to exploit Singularities by making them in a Chimera in the case you don't draw a Sundial. The Chimera can kind of protect you for 1 turn. It kind of saved me sometimes, but it's not a safe tactic, so don't use it unless you know your changes to win are slim anyway or the enemy FG can easily destroy your stalling anytime).
An example of this tactic successfully deployed vs Dark Matter (even if it wasn't necessary in this situation):
(http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo233/Reid4891/darkmatsing.jpg)
Some adjustments from 1500 test:
VERY EASY (>80%)
Lionheart -> Bad puppy! Bad!
Neptune
Miracle
Elidnis
Paradox
Destiny
Gemini -> Gemini is a bit slower version of Ferox in term of rashness
Fire Queen
Incarnate
FAIRLY EASY (80%-60%)
Serket
Ferox
MEDIUM (60%-40%)
Morte
Scorpio
Seism -> I play it by playing a time tower at turn, making it use a quicksand on it, then playing another one. Use at most one Hourglasses unless it dropped many creatures fast.
Obliterator
Akebono -> I had some interesting matches vs him. In one it made a Chimera at the middle of the game, I didn't have sundials anymore nor enough SoR but still played the combo without playing my Blitz and Chimera. Result: its chimera destroyed. Even if it can overdrive your mitosed Dragon in the next turn you can still probably win in 2 turns (it can't probably make a comeback without creatures unless it's very lucky with the draws). So my tip is: start to play sundials by turn 2, try to rush your hand and keep your health at max.
Graviton
Chaos Lord -> play fast, Sundials from turn 2.
Divine Glory -> imho it's better to play fast with Sundials from turn 2 also vs this one. Try to play the dragon+mitosis asap if you have them.
HARD (40%-20%)
Jezebel -> I'm trying an experiment on it (not really going well), still working in progress. But start chaining Sundials before playing Hourglasses (try not to let Hourglasses be stolen).
Osiris -> Start to chain at round 2 and stop playing stuff when it plays a SoFo and hope for it to be catapulted. Still not a good FG to face.
Octane -> play fast and pray. A good idea the singularity->Chimera trick here.
Rainbow
Decay -> If you start the game play a Sundials on round 2. It will steal your Hourglasses instead of playing a Pest if it has an Improved Steal, which means your quanta won't be drained and you can play your SN.
Btw, I always get the most amazing games vs Decay:
(http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo233/Reid4891/decayz.jpg)
Hecate -> This is all about luck, I even lost in 4 turns here. Hermes -> I wonder how I got it so high, my face everytime I see it as an opponent is >:(
PROHIBITIVE (<20%)
Eternal Phoenix
Dream Catcher
Dark Matter
Post by: iancudorinmarian on October 26, 2012, 05:12:35 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/wgyKS.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/nrsKT.png)
Post by: crosscounter on November 22, 2012, 10:35:19 pm
Chimera related tips:
Just to reiterate God by God Breakdown by Sevs, here is the List of FG with No Chimera Needed:
Destiny
Divine Glory
Dream Catcher
Elidnis
Eternal Phoenix
Ferox
Fire Queen
Gemini
*Graviton (*without grav pulled Armagio)
Hermes
Jezebel
Miracle
Neptune
Obliterator
**Octane (**if Octane is about to kill you early, you can choose to pull an incomplete combo with Chimera to tank attacks since Octane usu. has few creatures/low attack. Hold on to the Chimera if you can!)
Osiris
Paradox
Rainbow
Scorpio
Seism
Serket
Discarding Tip:
You can get rid of Chimera in 2 ways:
1. Have a full hand by end of turn, and discard Chimera
2. Play Chimera with 6/7 :gravity
While method 1 is popular, method 2 can be useful when you still have Haste options left and see a more strategic way to draw more cards earlier (for a Sundial, for more Time Tower, etc.)
Destiny
Divine Glory
Dream Catcher
Elidnis
Eternal Phoenix
Ferox
Fire Queen
Gemini
*Graviton (*without grav pulled Armagio)
Hermes
Jezebel
Miracle
Neptune
Obliterator
**Octane (**if Octane is about to kill you early, you can choose to pull an incomplete combo with Chimera to tank attacks since Octane usu. has few creatures/low attack. Hold on to the Chimera if you can!)
Osiris
Paradox
Rainbow
Scorpio
Seism
Serket
Discarding Tip:
You can get rid of Chimera in 2 ways:
1. Have a full hand by end of turn, and discard Chimera
2. Play Chimera with 6/7 :gravity
While method 1 is popular, method 2 can be useful when you still have Haste options left and see a more strategic way to draw more cards earlier (for a Sundial, for more Time Tower, etc.)
I wish I had a charm to repel those atrocious 3D's (Dark Matter, Decay, and Dream Catcher) when I challenge FGs :(
Regards
Post by: dragtom on December 19, 2012, 08:33:09 pm
the bad thing is that you need 25 :time ...
the good thing is that the :air cannot be messed up, and you only need 4 sn...
i think -2 sn + 2 :time tower wont give enough :time, though.
Post by: choongmyoung on December 20, 2012, 01:59:58 am
in 1.32, SoR will cost 3 :time.Exactly what I thought. Good job.
the bad thing is that you need 25 :time ...
the good thing is that the :air cannot be messed up, and you only need 4 sn...
i think -2 sn + 2 :time tower wont give enough :time, though.
Post by: kimham8a on December 20, 2012, 03:55:04 am
in 1.32, SoR will cost 3 :time.1.32 makes this deck stronger, actually.
the bad thing is that you need 25 :time ...
the good thing is that the :air cannot be messed up, and you only need 4 sn...
i think -2 sn + 2 :time tower wont give enough :time, though.
Post by: Absol on December 20, 2012, 04:10:34 am
Maybe this.
Dunno, SoR might be buffed again.
Post by: justaburd on December 20, 2012, 11:31:53 am
Maybe this.
Dunno, SoR might be buffed again.
Tried some games with it, seemed to have trouble with getting quanta/drawing stuff when you need it.
The lack of the 2 SNs kind of hurt.
Post by: choongmyoung on December 20, 2012, 02:32:41 pm
And too much full hands.Maybe this.
Dunno, SoR might be buffed again.
Tried some games with it, seemed to have trouble with getting quanta/drawing stuff when you need it.
The lack of the 2 SNs kind of hurt.
Post by: takezoido on December 20, 2012, 03:17:19 pm
Post by: Fippe94 on December 20, 2012, 03:50:33 pm
I've been testing a variant of -1SoB -1 Time Tower +2 Entropy Tower and change mark to Fire. You draw really fast, but you really need an Entropy Tower quick to play the SNovas.
Maybe this.
Dunno, SoR might be buffed again.
Post by: Foraker on December 24, 2012, 10:24:31 pm
only be used twice, I've played around with this in the trainer:
Too slow and even more vulnerable to PC and quanta denial than Instosis.
If one SoFr gets destroyed, the game is over.
So bb Instosis and thx to Sevs for that great deck.
Post by: Pineapple on December 25, 2012, 01:54:19 am
Might as well post this here.(http://i.imgur.com/w5ADJ.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/0kiYH.png)
Combo requires 8+1 chimera cards (compared to classic's 7+1).
Quanta:
Classic (234) : 12 rainbow + 0 time
1.32 (pre-nerf) : 8 + 12
1.32 (234) : 12 + 6
1.32 (208) : 8 + 10
http://imgur.com/a/bOEAT
Post by: mesaprotector on December 25, 2012, 02:01:35 am
For the last time, Instosis is not dead. Crippled, maybe, but not dead.
Still, it doesn't make any sense to insist on using it after it's been weakened so much ;) Especially when decks like Poisondials and Pillarless SPlat have been affected a lot less.
Post by: Chapuz on December 25, 2012, 04:00:16 am
Limitless Speed and Devonian FrOTKal aren't affected at all ;)For the last time, Instosis is not dead. Crippled, maybe, but not dead.
Still, it doesn't make any sense to insist on using it after it's been weakened so much ;) Especially when decks like Poisondials and Pillarless SPlat have been affected a lot less.
Post by: ddevans96 on December 25, 2012, 04:02:57 am
Post by: bob8willie on December 26, 2012, 03:47:02 am
Post by: Luminous on December 26, 2012, 03:03:00 pm
win rate of 69%... best deck ever right there :D
PDials has passed that.
Post by: kimham8a on December 27, 2012, 02:00:05 am
I think the PDials stats do not include skipped gods as losses... Unless you're talking about the stats received in the simulator?win rate of 69%... best deck ever right there :D
PDials has passed that.
Post by: VegeForsaken on January 05, 2013, 03:24:59 pm
For the last time, Instosis is not dead. Crippled, maybe, but not dead.Might as well post this here.(http://i.imgur.com/w5ADJ.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/0kiYH.png)
Combo requires 8+1 chimera cards (compared to classic's 7+1).
Quanta:
Classic (234) : 12 rainbow + 0 time
1.32 (pre-nerf) : 8 + 12
1.32 (234) : 12 + 6
1.32 (208) : 8 + 10
http://imgur.com/a/bOEAT
can you post the code of this version pls? also, have ya got any stat to compare with classic Insosis to quantify how much crippled it is? Tnx
Post by: Pineapple on January 05, 2013, 05:34:07 pm
1x Silurian Dragon, Mitosis, Sky Blitz, Chimera
2x Twin Universe
3x SoR
3x Hourglass
6x Time Towers
6x Supernova
6x Sundial
And, in lieu with my inability to produce the deck code, no stats from me.
Post by: kimham8a on January 05, 2013, 05:54:33 pm
As you can see/guess from the screenshots:
1x Silurian Dragon, Mitosis, Sky Blitz, Chimera
2x Twin Universe
3x SoR
3x Hourglass
6x Time Towers
6x Supernova
6x Sundial
And, in lieu with my inability to produce the deck code, no stats from me.
-1 TU
+1 Mitosis
Works better against Decay and Dark Matter, but works against less shields without Chimera.
Post by: willng3 on January 05, 2013, 06:38:45 pm
This thread is going to be archived.
I know it's not completely unusable and it can be modified, but the reality here is that we're now up to 50+ pages of the discussion being about the deck as it was during 1.31 and I don't see the OP being active enough these days to adjust it to account for the SoR change. I think this will be more productive at fixing this deck for newer players and players who want to continue to use it after 1.31.
Therefore, if anyone wants to start a new thread for Instosis for the 1.32 changes, you have my permission to do so. Just make sure to credit original ideas properly if they aren't yours.