Post by: Jenkar on March 13, 2012, 07:25:23 am
Note: does NOT protect against mass CC, such as Rain of Fire or Thunderstorm.
(http://i.imgur.com/lGZMx.png)
Post by: waterzx on March 13, 2012, 07:27:50 am
Never been a fan for critical hit in any game
And, why Shard of Freedom ? Sounds like a lazy name, everyone comes up with this name, and the mechanics doesn't really match the name
Post by: Jenkar on March 13, 2012, 07:33:48 am
so....more randomness to this game. BadIgnoring shields is pretty free to me ... :P
Never been a fan for critical hit in any game
And, why Shard of Freedom ? Sounds like a lazy name, everyone comes up with this name, and the mechanics doesn't really match the name
Post by: waterzx on March 13, 2012, 07:35:21 am
But critical hit itself does not imply any "Freedom".so....more randomness to this game. BadIgnoring shields is pretty free to me ... :P
Never been a fan for critical hit in any game
And, why Shard of Freedom ? Sounds like a lazy name, everyone comes up with this name, and the mechanics doesn't really match the name
Post by: Jenkar on March 13, 2012, 07:44:31 am
Nope. But this card isn't only critical hits ^^But critical hit itself does not imply any "Freedom".so....more randomness to this game. BadIgnoring shields is pretty free to me ... :P
Never been a fan for critical hit in any game
And, why Shard of Freedom ? Sounds like a lazy name, everyone comes up with this name, and the mechanics doesn't really match the name
Post by: Schlonz on March 13, 2012, 08:01:51 am
Wow, that really buffs air-decks.
Post by: Jenkar on March 13, 2012, 08:04:59 am
So with 6 shards in play I get 6*15%=90% critical hit probability?Yep. Keep in mind that even if you pack 6, it's not that probable to have them all out QUICK.
Wow, that really buffs air-decks.
Post by: Schlonz on March 13, 2012, 08:08:13 am
Post by: Absol on March 13, 2012, 08:28:45 am
Post by: Kuroaitou on March 13, 2012, 08:59:57 am
How does this buff non- :air creatures? Since shards generally can be used in any deck, yet gives certain advantage to one element.Note the wording; it says AIRBORNE creatures, not just 'Air'. ;) There's a wiki list of all Airborne creatures I believe: http://elementscommunity.org/wiki/ability/airborne/
Post by: Absol on March 13, 2012, 09:42:31 am
I see. So unlike the other shards, splashing this in will be a bit harder.How does this buff non- :air creatures? Since shards generally can be used in any deck, yet gives certain advantage to one element.Note the wording; it says AIRBORNE creatures, not just 'Air'. ;) There's a wiki list of all Airborne creatures I believe: http://elementscommunity.org/wiki/ability/airborne/
22/86 creatures affected as per 1.30. Yeah, will be hard to splashed.
Does this affect opponent's creatures? There's no specific wording for your creatures only.
Post by: Eleahen on March 13, 2012, 10:18:44 am
Post by: Vineroz on March 13, 2012, 11:08:33 am
EDIT: OK after some testing, generally a weak shard. You really need at least 4+ in early game to make an impact. Even with SoI, it is difficult to do the shard split.
Post by: Hisar on March 13, 2012, 11:51:46 am
Edit: Yes, they can. Cool.
Edit 2: After a bunch more playing... I really don't feel like this shard offers much except shield bypass in the late game. For rushes its better just to have another creature, and it takes 3+ shards to really have an impact. This is also the only shard that doesn't offer some bonus to its own element. What if the % chance was doubled to 30% with an air mark?
Post by: petersenk on March 13, 2012, 12:13:53 pm
Ignoring shields is also _very_ badass.
Sounds very powerfull to me. Flying weapons and vampires, ignoring shields, critical hits.
oO
Post by: drolly on March 13, 2012, 12:30:24 pm
This is also the only shard that doesn't offer some bonus to its own element. What if the % chance was doubled to 30% with an air mark?I think the bonus is given by the fact that all :air creatures (5 species), the :air weapon and every flying weapon (which is still somehow connected to the :air mark) are airborne while the other elements only have their respective dragon and one or two smaller critters. Thus you can consider the effect somehow doubled ;) . Seems like spiders will become way more useful in near future ...
And in case I haven't said this yet: I like the new shards except Shard of Focus. Wonder if Shard of Justice is just a new name for Shard of Conscience or if SoJ will have an ability different from controlling the quanta cap.
EDIT: Changed "SoF" into Shard of Focus. I like Shard of Freedom but didn't notice that the abbreviation could be the same!
Post by: Absol on March 13, 2012, 12:49:47 pm
Post by: Jenkar on March 13, 2012, 12:54:38 pm
Is Blue Nymph airborne? IIRC it's not.Ain't.
Post by: drolly on March 13, 2012, 01:00:47 pm
Is Blue Nymph airborne? IIRC it's not.You win :)) No nymph is airborne. But it's the only exception and I didn't include her when counting five species. I just thought of normal cards, not some obscure rares. ::)
Post by: kurathedog on March 13, 2012, 02:30:14 pm
This also makes stuff like diving even crazier, as mentioned. And Mass dive + sky blitz + this is nearly unstoppable once you get it running.
The shield bypass is a more important part of this, IMO. I would almost have liked simply the shield bypass part of it. Without the random damage increases.
Post by: Shantu on March 13, 2012, 03:03:19 pm
Post by: Hisar on March 13, 2012, 03:18:54 pm
Post by: RavingRabbid on March 13, 2012, 04:11:38 pm
Is 15% additive {(0.15*n)%} or multiplicative {1-(0.85)^n}?
Post by: Jenkar on March 13, 2012, 04:15:43 pm
Entropy =/= Randomness.Additive.
Is 15% additive {(0.15*n)%} or multiplicative {1-(0.85)^n}?
Post by: eaglgenes101 on March 13, 2012, 04:22:09 pm
Post by: Belligerence on March 13, 2012, 04:30:47 pm
Post by: teffy on March 13, 2012, 05:00:12 pm
[...] The problem right now, is that 15% chance to do 50% extra damage is really bad. To put it into perspective, one shard is 1/14 of a creature in a creature spam deck. Much easier to just add another creature. The only time it makes sense is if you have really big creatures, since you then get more for the cost. However, then the randomness really kicks in.Do you only have 1 creature on your field ? 1 shard is more than 1/14 of a creature.
Size of creatures doesn´t matter, 50% of X are 50% of X, no matter how they are distributed over your creatures. Only total damage counts. However more creatures mean a more reliable result - as you have written it.
The true strength of this card is, that it bypasses shields. And skyblitz combos.
I think some decks will REALLY hate this shard in opponent´s decks - like RoL-Hope, Aether-stall.
However, it can also make these decks stronger.
P.S.
A slower graphic effect would be good. (Also for the earth shard). The difference to the aether shard should be higher (colors).
Post by: Hisar on March 13, 2012, 05:18:49 pm
The reason it works better with big creatures is that this card has a cost - 1/14 extra ray of light for 3 :rainbow is awful, but 1/14 of a ruby dragon for 3 :rainbow is a much better deal.
In a mono air rush, for example, you're getting a soft counter to dim shields and hope - most of your damage is from diving, or from dragons - other shields won't affect you as much.
With 1 shard of patience out against no shield, a diving elite worm has on average 10.75 attack - yes, it doesn't even increase it 1 point.
Against a 2 damage reduction shield, the worm's attack is on average 9.05 - barely 1 point. This is for 1/2 the quanta it would take to just play another worm. In addition, you're sacrificing card space to put in those shards of freedom - instead you could have an extra pillar to play another creature, or just another creature.
Post by: Mathematistic on March 13, 2012, 05:21:12 pm
Next is a card that gives airborne status to creatures?Without "that card" SoF is pretty much UP, since its versatility is very limited.
While 15% makes the perfect solution for a stack of 6, it seems too slow to be useful on its own. Same problem as SoV, just that SoV has a more practical use of limiting healing while this doesn't do much except for momentum with luck.
Problem 2 is arena decks with double deck size, and/or mindgaters. 105%?! :o
I would suggest giving it a duration and increases the chance of activation.
Alternatively, higher initial percentage of activation and reduces by gradual stacking might work. What I mean is +30% for 1 shard, +20% (total 50) for another, +10% (total 60) for 3rd one in stack so that it converges to 100% as shards stack up, but one of them alone won't be too bad either.
Post by: Jenkar on March 13, 2012, 05:35:25 pm
This is the proposed change i like the most.Next is a card that gives airborne status to creatures?Alternatively, higher initial percentage of activation and reduces by gradual stacking might work. What I mean is +30% for 1 shard, +20% (total 50) for another, +10% (total 60) for 3rd one in stack so that it converges to 100% as shards stack up, but one of them alone won't be too bad either.
Post by: Atico on March 13, 2012, 06:03:52 pm
The worst element got the worst shard - so it is balanced ;)
Post by: Avenger on March 13, 2012, 06:30:36 pm
Post by: Tiko on March 13, 2012, 06:41:31 pm
Dive, Sky Blitz plus the cheap, small creatures that even generate quanta on each attack - and now Shard of Freedom; the damage potential can reach extremes and it also lets you ignore shields some of the time.. I really don't see any problem with it. I also love the Critical Hit animation, nice take on the Shockwave effect.
It is strange that nobody mentioned before, that Shard of Freedom(s) paired up with immortality lets you have *completely* invulnerable creatures; at least in theory. We're looking forward of facing some really annoying mono-Aether decks in the future.. :]
Post by: Belligerence on March 13, 2012, 07:07:49 pm
Post by: moomoose on March 13, 2012, 07:29:17 pm
Post by: eaglgenes101 on March 13, 2012, 10:54:18 pm
I'm curious; if this is the "Air" attuned shard, what bonus does it directly offer to Air over the other elements? All of the other shards (SoG, SoV, SoSe, etc) have an ability that is stronger or affects the relevant element over the other elements. Apart from Air having more flying creatures, this shard seems to break the theme. What if Air creatures had a higher chance to critically hit over other creatures? Say, 20% for all Air creatures, 15% for all others?All of air's creatures are flying. For some elements, the only flying creatures are the dragons.
Post by: Rutarete on March 13, 2012, 10:56:50 pm
Post by: furballdn on March 14, 2012, 12:23:19 am
Post by: willng3 on March 14, 2012, 04:31:41 am
It's fun. Probably one of the best designed Shards for me thus far.
Post by: furballdn on March 14, 2012, 04:48:19 am
Post by: Atico on March 14, 2012, 08:29:22 am
This shard is very weak. I thought, that this shard will remove weakness Air. Bonus for attack isn't something special, especially when SkyBlitz works much better.
One of the weakness Air is PC. Maybe it will be good idea, when all Air creatures will ignore shield with this card (some kind of PC for shield) and rest of all airborne creatures will have 15% for critical hit?
Post by: Chapuz on March 14, 2012, 02:28:39 pm
Post by: Jenkar on March 14, 2012, 02:35:59 pm
damage is +50%, rounded up or down? For example, a critical hit with a firefly (1 attack) is of 1 or 2 HP?Up.
Post by: zhangvict on March 14, 2012, 02:47:39 pm
Some good creatures from other elements examples:
:fire: phoenix, ruby dragon, seraph
:darkness: vampires, gargolyes
:death: Bone dragon, condor
:life: forest spirit, jade
:light: Pegasus (major benifit), Archangel, RoL even
etc etc.
Perhaps if mark is air, percentage chance for each SoF increases from 15% to 25%, or extra dmg or all air creatures automatically bypass shields with same chance to deal extra damage?
Post by: Shantu on March 14, 2012, 05:02:31 pm
Post by: Atico on March 14, 2012, 08:07:35 pm
As more and more cards are added to the game, Air will have more and more airborne creatures. I am quite sure we won't see many non-airborne air creatures other than the occasional bean nymph, while other elements will get less flying stuff. So overall, it benefits Air more.Where You can see benefit for Air when we compare decks:
1. Towers, Immolation, Phoenix, Dragon and Seraph
2. RoL+Fractal+Archangels - one of the most popular FG Deck
3. Any kind of Air deck.
Where is advantage for Air?
I agree with @zhangvict - we need more Air bonus. Avoid shield as bonus for Air creatures will be good change, like some kind of soft PC for the weakness element in game.
15% chance for airborne creatures to critical hit (+50% attack) and all Air creatures avoid shield (as bonus for this Element).
Post by: Belligerence on March 14, 2012, 08:14:52 pm
So basically permanent momentum for all Air creatures as long as you have at least 1 shard out? That doesn't sound severely OP or anything like that.As more and more cards are added to the game, Air will have more and more airborne creatures. I am quite sure we won't see many non-airborne air creatures other than the occasional bean nymph, while other elements will get less flying stuff. So overall, it benefits Air more.Where You can see benefit for Air when we compare decks:
1. Towers, Immolation, Phoenix, Dragon and Seraph
2. RoL+Fractal+Archangels - one of the most popular FG Deck
3. Any kind of Air deck.
Where is advantage for Air?
I agree with @zhangvict - we need more Air bonus. Avoid shield as bonus for Air creatures will be good change, like some kind of soft PC for the weakness element in game.
15% chance for airborne creatures to critical hit (+50% attack) and all Air creatures avoid shield (as bonus for this Element).
Post by: Atico on March 14, 2012, 08:26:04 pm
Why not? SoP is like ChaosPower every turn for Water. The same can be here. Remember that Momentum gives +1/1 and can be use on each creature, so it is advantage with compare to SoF.So basically permanent momentum for all Air creatures as long as you have at least 1 shard out? That doesn't sound severely OP or anything like that.As more and more cards are added to the game, Air will have more and more airborne creatures. I am quite sure we won't see many non-airborne air creatures other than the occasional bean nymph, while other elements will get less flying stuff. So overall, it benefits Air more.Where You can see benefit for Air when we compare decks:
1. Towers, Immolation, Phoenix, Dragon and Seraph
2. RoL+Fractal+Archangels - one of the most popular FG Deck
3. Any kind of Air deck.
Where is advantage for Air?
I agree with @zhangvict - we need more Air bonus. Avoid shield as bonus for Air creatures will be good change, like some kind of soft PC for the weakness element in game.
15% chance for airborne creatures to critical hit (+50% attack) and all Air creatures avoid shield (as bonus for this Element).
Now this shard is incredibly weak and there is no bonus for Air. Avoid shield when You have Air creature have a sense - it is real freedom.
Post by: kurathedog on March 14, 2012, 09:29:33 pm
Airborn creatures you control get +1/+0 per shard, +2/+0 if you have an air mark. They also get a flat 25% chance to bypass shields.
Maybe no flat chance, still adds per shard? I was trying to make it not make shields that useless.
Maybe even no momentum whatsoever... (Although I like freedom + avoid shields). I think adding damage might still be enough, because it works so well with all the damage doubles already out there.
Or another angle entirely:
Airborn creatures you control have a 50% chance to avoid any negative effect. Feels very freedomy.
Post by: abacus on March 14, 2012, 10:55:31 pm
In the early game: If you don't have many of them out, then it's unlikely to fire. If you do have many of them out, then you don't have much damage out.
In the late game: You either already lost to a faster deck that didn't dither around with shards and just packed more creatures, or you will lose to a deck with a more powerful lategame strategy.
My suggestion: Make it so that the shard fires off 50% of the time, and multiplies creature damage by 1.2. This gets increased by .2 with each additional shard in play. That way it will actually be consistently useful even with just 1 out, and doesn't change the expected damage by much
Post by: Atico on March 14, 2012, 11:16:56 pm
Post by: dragonsdemesne on March 14, 2012, 11:49:41 pm
Post by: Aves on March 14, 2012, 11:59:46 pm
As for the actual shard- I'll reserve judgement until it's in use, but it seems fine to me.
I don't know why some of us compare concept of avoiding shield by Air creatures with Momentum. Better comparision is with Explosion, which can destroy 3/4 of shields and You have the same effect like avoid. So where it will be OP? Explosion can destroy all permaments, SoP "destroy" only shield. Explosion open the shield for everyone, SoP only for Air. So what is the problem with avoiding shield by Air? What is more - Shard of Focus is like "avoid shield", because You can easily destroy shield or other permament (big advantage). I didn't see any kind of problem with avoiding shield by Air and personally I think that it shouldn't be the last buff for this card to Air...It's not a good comparison between explosion, because explosion destroys permanents. Momentum is exactly the card to compare this against, as they both bypass shields. Permanent control like explosion does nothing against shields protected by enchant artifact or immaterial shields like Hope, Emerald Shield, or Reflective shield.
Post by: Atico on March 15, 2012, 09:00:15 am
Suggestion: New acronym, like SoFr or something- it's getting really confusing looking between this and Shard of focus.Real difference between Explosion and Momentum is only with Hope and BoneWall. Only here. Emerald and Reflective shield are one of the less used cards and RS reduce damage only by 0-1, so it isn't big problem. So I can say that in about 80% games Explosion gives You skill "avoid the shield". SoFr probably will give also 70-80% chance to avoid shield, because we must remember that sometimes SoFr will be destroyed. We shouldn't bother about this change. I would like to see this change in Trainer to test it.
As for the actual shard- I'll reserve judgement until it's in use, but it seems fine to me.I don't know why some of us compare concept of avoiding shield by Air creatures with Momentum. Better comparision is with Explosion, which can destroy 3/4 of shields and You have the same effect like avoid. So where it will be OP? Explosion can destroy all permaments, SoP "destroy" only shield. Explosion open the shield for everyone, SoP only for Air. So what is the problem with avoiding shield by Air? What is more - Shard of Focus is like "avoid shield", because You can easily destroy shield or other permament (big advantage). I didn't see any kind of problem with avoiding shield by Air and personally I think that it shouldn't be the last buff for this card to Air...It's not a good comparison between explosion, because explosion destroys permanents. Momentum is exactly the card to compare this against, as they both bypass shields. Permanent control like explosion does nothing against shields protected by enchant artifact or immaterial shields like Hope, Emerald Shield, or Reflective shield.
And I like concept @dragonsdemesne. It looks very good and gives fine strategy skills for game. But maybe it should be 5-6th creature, not 7th. Why? Because we must remember that "we lose" few turns for wait to 7th creature and then skill of SoFr = 0%. In previous version we always have 15%. But idea is very good.
Post by: xn0ize on March 18, 2012, 03:42:33 pm
Post by: Hyroen on March 21, 2012, 03:43:40 am
When Freedom comes to mind, I think of being able to do more with my hand, being able to do weird and unexpected things with my permanents and creatures, and being able to play cards a bit more liberally.
It's quite frankly a little disappointing to see that :air Air is still going down the path of surprise attack when it can really do so much more. The more it chases after being the "damage dealer" of Elements the Game, the more it faces the hurdle of how to surpass the daunting damage tyrant that is and should be :fire Fire.
This is not the only Shard that seems to be made the way I sometimes write my essays, but I sincerely hope that a little more time and effort are put into thinking what Freedom could truly bring to :air Air, and what doors could be opened for an element which has had many doors shut.
Conscience was changed to Wisdom, and mechanically, I hope something similar happens to SoFr. The name is beautifully thematic for :air Air, but as for the mechanic, it's more trapped than Freedom should be.
Am I the only one who feels this way?
Post by: zhangvict on March 21, 2012, 02:03:09 pm
I have always loved zanzarino's work and I am amazed by his work as a developer, however, I sincerely hope that the concept of Freedom is not limited to being able to whack the opponent better.Yes I totally agree with you. I thought at least it should grant all air creatures auto momentum to better showcase the theme of freedom and benefit air creatures better (shocking how a mono darkness with gargolyes and vampires can get the full benifit of this shard with no air at all). The ignore shield part I get about freedom, not so much the higher damage, though it does have excellent synergy with wryms and blitz.
When Freedom comes to mind, I think of being able to do more with my hand, being able to do weird and unexpected things with my permanents and creatures, and being able to play cards a bit more liberally.
It's quite frankly a little disappointing to see that :air Air is still going down the path of surprise attack when it can really do so much more. The more it chases after being the "damage dealer" of Elements the Game, the more it faces the hurdle of how to surpass the daunting damage tyrant that is and should be :fire Fire.
This is not the only Shard that seems to be made the way I sometimes write my essays, but I sincerely hope that a little more time and effort are put into thinking what Freedom could truly bring to :air Air, and what doors could be opened for an element which has had many doors shut.
Conscience was changed to Wisdom, and mechanically, I hope something similar happens to SoFr. The name is beautifully thematic for :air Air, but as for the mechanic, it's more trapped than Freedom should be.
Am I the only one who feels this way?
Perhaps some suggestions of future mechanics for a freedom shard:
- You may discard cards from your hand and draw an equal number if cards you discard.
- Cards cost less quanta to play
- Summoning sickness is removed for all airborne creatures and ranged weapons
- Creatures attack twice next turn in exchange for being delayed afterwards.
Freedom is in one way about liberty, but another way I like to think about freedom is the letting go of roots and things holding you down, embracing change and moving forward. Some more unconventional ideas could be sacrifice all non pillar/pend permanents in exchange for some temporary advantage, extra quanta, card draw, etc etc.
etc.
Post by: waterzx on March 21, 2012, 02:33:18 pm
You can play every card in hand and use all abilities. Your quanta pool becomes negative if you have insufficient quanta. You repay the quanta "debt" one turn later
Post by: Atico on March 21, 2012, 04:50:42 pm
Critical hit isn't thing what Air need. Adding random method for Air also isn't good news. And the last - there is no bonus for Air. What is more, this shard is probably better balanced with other elemenents and cards than Air (for example Vampire, Phoenix etc). I still think that we should completly change this card or remove effect of avoid shields for airborne creatures and gives only for Air Creatures.
Instead critical hit I prefer concepts which @zhangvict wrote. More freedom for SoFr!
Post by: Max Fire on March 23, 2012, 07:01:58 pm
It allows to increase for 1 turn the power of your airbone creatures by 50% but only -> 15% <- of the time :(
0.5x0.15=0.075
So... finally we have a power increase of airbone creatures (in average and per shard) of 7.5%.
To make you a better idea, a Ruby Dragon will gain (in average) 1.125 damages per shard, which is quite ridiculous.
Post by: eaglgenes101 on March 23, 2012, 11:48:21 pm
In fact the Shard of Freedom is very very weak, this proves mathematically.What do you expect for something that costs 3 any?
It allows to increase for 1 turn the power of your airbone creatures by 50% but only -> 15% <- of the time :(
0.5x0.15=0.075
So... finally we have a power increase of airbone creatures (in average and per shard) of 7.5%.
To make you a better idea, a Ruby Dragon will gain (in average) 1.125 damages per shard, which is quite ridiculous.
Post by: Poker Alho on March 24, 2012, 12:47:31 am
well you have to take into count that ignoring shields is awesome and in math, awesome is a big number ^^In fact the Shard of Freedom is very very weak, this proves mathematically.What do you expect for something that costs 3 any?
It allows to increase for 1 turn the power of your airbone creatures by 50% but only -> 15% <- of the time :(
0.5x0.15=0.075
So... finally we have a power increase of airbone creatures (in average and per shard) of 7.5%.
To make you a better idea, a Ruby Dragon will gain (in average) 1.125 damages per shard, which is quite ridiculous.
Post by: Absol on March 24, 2012, 03:45:38 am
Something that gives 3 card advantage, something that gives free skill cost, something that heals for 16 HP.In fact the Shard of Freedom is very very weak, this proves mathematically.What do you expect for something that costs 3 any?
It allows to increase for 1 turn the power of your airbone creatures by 50% but only -> 15% <- of the time :(
0.5x0.15=0.075
So... finally we have a power increase of airbone creatures (in average and per shard) of 7.5%.
To make you a better idea, a Ruby Dragon will gain (in average) 1.125 damages per shard, which is quite ridiculous.
But note that this shard is stackable, meaning that the gain will be higher the more you use it.
Post by: Jenkar on March 24, 2012, 06:43:21 am
The same is true for every other shard...Something that gives 3 card advantage, something that gives free skill cost, something that heals for 16 HP.In fact the Shard of Freedom is very very weak, this proves mathematically.What do you expect for something that costs 3 any?
It allows to increase for 1 turn the power of your airbone creatures by 50% but only -> 15% <- of the time :(
0.5x0.15=0.075
So... finally we have a power increase of airbone creatures (in average and per shard) of 7.5%.
To make you a better idea, a Ruby Dragon will gain (in average) 1.125 damages per shard, which is quite ridiculous.
But note that this shard is stackable, meaning that the gain will be higher the more you use it.
Post by: E.Leblanc on March 24, 2012, 02:17:02 pm
Yes I totally agree with you. I thought at least it should grant all air creatures auto momentum to better showcase the theme of freedom and benefit air creatures better (shocking how a mono darkness with gargolyes and vampires can get the full benifit of this shard with no air at all). The ignore shield part I get about freedom, not so much the higher damage, though it does have excellent synergy with wryms and blitz.I support the "freedom" logic also. Crits is too random, maybe good enough for entropy, but there is the well made SoS
Perhaps some suggestions of future mechanics for a freedom shard:
- You may discard cards from your hand and draw an equal number if cards you discard.
- Cards cost less quanta to play
- Summoning sickness is removed for all airborne creatures and ranged weapons
- Creatures attack twice next turn in exchange for being delayed afterwards.
Freedom is in one way about liberty, but another way I like to think about freedom is the letting go of roots and things holding you down, embracing change and moving forward. Some more unconventional ideas could be sacrifice all non pillar/pend permanents in exchange for some temporary advantage, extra quanta, card draw, etc etc.
etc.
Summing up all other ideas of this mechanic, maybe let's give the new SoFr:
You may play every card in hand and use all abilities including those on newly played creatures. Playing cards cost quanta universally and if you have insufficient quanta your quanta pool becomes negative . (Credits to watersz) Playing :air cards consume half as much quanta and using skills on :air creatures are free
Post by: Picheleiro on March 24, 2012, 05:00:28 pm
True. It doesn´t stack better or worse than the others shards. Seems UP. +0.75 damage on average for every 10 than you already have. I would pack Damselfly before this. I would mess with the critical damage rather than the critical probability, I dont dare to say a precise number, but I would go to at least to 100%.The same is true for every other shard...Something that gives 3 card advantage, something that gives free skill cost, something that heals for 16 HP.In fact the Shard of Freedom is very very weak, this proves mathematically.What do you expect for something that costs 3 any?
It allows to increase for 1 turn the power of your airbone creatures by 50% but only -> 15% <- of the time :(
0.5x0.15=0.075
So... finally we have a power increase of airbone creatures (in average and per shard) of 7.5%.
To make you a better idea, a Ruby Dragon will gain (in average) 1.125 damages per shard, which is quite ridiculous.
But note that this shard is stackable, meaning that the gain will be higher the more you use it.
By the way, with SoSe you only get 2 card advantage. -3 :rainbow -1 card + 3 cards
Post by: Shantu on March 24, 2012, 05:17:06 pm
In fact the Shard of Freedom is very very weak, this proves mathematically.Wisdom affects a single creature, Freedom affects multiple creatures. Comparing them like this is pointless, because when you use Freedom you will (most often) have multiple Ruby Dragons on the field.
It allows to increase for 1 turn the power of your airbone creatures by 50% but only -> 15% <- of the time :(
0.5x0.15=0.075
So... finally we have a power increase of airbone creatures (in average and per shard) of 7.5%.
To make you a better idea, a Ruby Dragon will gain (in average) 1.125 damages per shard, which is quite ridiculous.
Post by: Essence on March 24, 2012, 05:51:11 pm
* Mana generation through creatures (Firefly, Damselfly)
* Spawning creatures (FFQ, Flying Weapon)
* Mass damage (Unstable Gas, Thunderstorm)
Air's shard could totally be something like:
1) When Shard of Teamwork is played, each creature you have in play generates one quanta of it's element. :air creatures generate 2 mana of their element.
2) Shard of the Hive Mind: [Permanent] 0: Generate a 1/1 Bug. If you have an :air mark, generate a Dragonfly instead.
3) Shard of Force: 4/2. When Shard of Force is removed from play, deal 2 damage to every enemy creature and if you have an :air mark, delay any surviving creatures for one round.
All of those are perfectly in-theme for Air's core set, and avoid the whole "must have moar flying-diveiness" mentality.
Post by: Picheleiro on March 24, 2012, 05:54:42 pm
Well, the idea remains the same. Every 100 damage/turn you do you will add 7.5 points on average. It really doesnt matters the numbers of creature (well, shields and typical deviation but you get the point). How much useful is the card?In fact the Shard of Freedom is very very weak, this proves mathematically.Wisdom affects a single creature, Freedom affects multiple creatures. Comparing them like this is pointless, because when you use Freedom you will (most often) have multiple Ruby Dragons on the field.
It allows to increase for 1 turn the power of your airbone creatures by 50% but only -> 15% <- of the time :(
0.5x0.15=0.075
So... finally we have a power increase of airbone creatures (in average and per shard) of 7.5%.
To make you a better idea, a Ruby Dragon will gain (in average) 1.125 damages per shard, which is quite ridiculous.
It only exceeds the damage of a Damselfly (0 :rainbow card which produces quantum 2 damage) when you reach 40 damage/turn. Do you really care about doing 3.0 more damage point then? I dont think so. I would like another kind of cards in those moments.
You can argue "But when you have reached 100 damage/turn It does 7.5 more". But, at that point, you really dont care about the damn 7.5 additional ponts.
Post by: Jenkar on March 24, 2012, 06:19:57 pm
Shard of Sacrifice, :death : Healing.
Shard of Wisdom, :aether : Attack buff.
Shard of Divinity, :light : Max HP
Shard of Focus, :gravity : PC
Shard of Serependity, :entropy : Card advantage
Shard of Bravery, :fire : Drawing speed
Shard of Gratitude, :life : Health gain
Shard of Readiness, :time : No previous niche (ability cost nihilification)
Shard of Patience, :water : Attack & hp buff
Shard of Void, :darkness : Over shield damage (MaxHP reduction)
Shard of Integrity, :earth : No previous niche (Card amalgation)
We can see that each of those, save void & gratitude, went into a niche that the element didn't possess a card for. Furthermore, i believe the first 6 boosted the element's power by going into that niche.
What i'd love to see here is a new concept that isn't in air, but that would fit one of its holes (go go creature protection, over shield damage, or something that has no niche yet!) and allow it to become stronger that way.
Post by: Essence on March 24, 2012, 06:29:01 pm
Shard of Freedom [Permanent, Stackable]
You and your creatures gain 15% Evasion. (Any time an effect the opponent controls would target them, they have a 15% chance to avoid that effect.)
Stack six, and you have 90% Evasion on all your creatures. It's unreliable, which seems like it's in Air's nature somehow even though there aren't any mechanics for it; it's Freedom to the core, and it cover's Air's major weakness (easily killable critters.)
Post by: Picheleiro on March 24, 2012, 06:42:58 pm
Post by: Jenkar on March 24, 2012, 06:44:13 pm
Otherwise, i like it.
Post by: Atico on March 24, 2012, 08:07:17 pm
I prefer versions when for example 5th creature gain effect (it is like 15% chance for all creatures, because we must remember about 0% chance until we have <5 creatures). Promoting big number of creatures are also compatibile with Air (this element has got small and fast creatures).
I thought also about something like this "Creatures with 2 airborne neighbours on field are unreachable for opponent. Air creatures avoid shield". Here when we want destroy creature we must earlier hit his neigbour on field. And special bonus for Air - avoid shield (no, it isn't OP, simple Explosion give also "avoid shield" effect for all elements and cards in game, here only works with Air). Then it will be real Freedom, real good card for teamwork with airborne and with bonus for Air (soft PC like shield avoid is something what Air need)
Post by: Marsu on March 24, 2012, 08:44:42 pm
Post by: Essence on March 24, 2012, 09:41:10 pm
Post by: OldTrees on March 25, 2012, 12:41:27 am
OK, so what would fit into air's holes and yet still be air flavored?This is much better than the current version
Shard of Freedom [Permanent, Stackable]
You and your creatures gain 15% Evasion. (Any time an effect the opponent controls would target them, they have a 15% chance to avoid that effect.)
Stack six, and you have 90% Evasion on all your creatures. It's unreliable, which seems like it's in Air's nature somehow even though there aren't any mechanics for it; it's Freedom to the core, and it cover's Air's major weakness (easily killable critters.)
It adds something new to the game, something new to Air and still fits withing Air's theme.
Post by: Essence on March 25, 2012, 04:20:21 am
Shard of Freedom [Permanent, Stackable]
You and your creatures gain 15% Evasion. (Any time an effect the opponent controls would target them, they have a 15% chance to avoid that effect.) Airborne creatures gain an additional 10% Evasion, as do you while under the effect of Wings.
Post by: Hyroen on March 25, 2012, 04:38:34 am
I wouldn't consider it perfect as a Shard, but the attempt is welcome and thanked.
Post by: Absol on March 25, 2012, 04:42:33 am
Post by: zhangvict on March 25, 2012, 05:10:10 am
Post by: Xenocidius on March 25, 2012, 05:19:40 am
(http://i.imgur.com/WWyD9.png) (http://i.imgur.com/7d0yW.png)
Post by: Hyroen on March 25, 2012, 05:28:25 am
As of now I have not experienced any of my targeting missing my creatures affected by SoFr. We'll see though...
EDIT:
Findings
- Confirmed: When an :air Air creature affected by SoFr dodges the "Dive" animation appears
- Confirmed: Any :air Air creature affected by SoFr may dodge, whether airborne or not
- Confirmed: Mass spells are affected differently by SoFr, depending on the spell. RoF and Thunderstorm are affected normally, Pandemonium is unaffected (http://i.imgur.com/lGZMx.png).
- Confirmed: Dodging applies to Devour, but buff from Devour is still added
- Tentative: :air Air creatures affected by SoFr do not dodge targeting from their side.
- Tentative: UG damage is unable to be dodged
Post by: Essence on March 25, 2012, 05:33:28 am
Glad I did. :)
[edit]This gives three official ways around (most) shields now -- Momentum, Wisdom, and Freedom. Is good.[/edit]
[edit2]Interestingly, a Devour that gets Evaded still results in a +1|+1 for the nommer. Also, this Shard is pretty sweet.[/edit2]
Post by: Absol on March 25, 2012, 06:04:31 am
Both the evasion and critical animation appears in the middle of creature field, not on the creature itself.
SoFr + Sundial still shows critical animation, though no damage done.
EDIT: maybe a bug. Mass CC spell still hits even with 100% evasion. Except Pandy. Everything else hit.
Post by: OldTrees on March 25, 2012, 06:19:32 am
Looks like that evasion idea has come to fruition.Nice. Another good shard.
Post by: Essence on March 25, 2012, 06:38:30 am
Post by: Jenkar on March 25, 2012, 09:13:18 am
Post by: Atico on March 25, 2012, 10:40:14 am
1 SoFr - is very weak
2-3 SoFr - normal power
4-5 SoFr - very powerful
Edit:
I tested this card more and for me it is still poor. We need 5 creatures to have 1 critical hit. So is it really worth to play this card? Maybe someone who play this card have new idea for this card?
Concept is good, but something goes wrong and this card didn't work so good. Idea of 50% at start +10% for each shard looks better, but probably it will be difficult/unrealistic to do.
Post by: Max Fire on March 27, 2012, 09:01:13 am
The concept of evading is very interesting regarding the concept of air. Don't change it. :)
Post by: Zso_Zso on March 27, 2012, 03:14:35 pm
1 shard would give 50% chance of critical hit/evade
2+ shards would work after each other, i.e. 1st tested if it works or fails 50%, if failed, then the next one is tested and so on.
So as a result, the chance of failure (no effect) goes down geometrically 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, 1/16, 1/32, 1/64 for 1-to-6 shards in play respectively.
This way even with 6 shards the effect is still not guaranteed, but very likely (63/64 chance), on the other hand, even 1 shard gives a 50% chance, so it is not negligible.
Post by: Essence on March 27, 2012, 09:24:18 pm
Post by: Atico on March 28, 2012, 08:40:21 pm
Concept Zso_Zso is good, but still too random. I prefer something like Flooding - SoFr generate Fog and all creatures in fog gain critical hit + evading if Air.
1 SoFr - maybe 50% places with fog (random, but we can see where is fog so we can create new tactic for game) or places 6-23 etc. More SoFr - more places with fog.
Then it will be good Shard especially for Air, which has got Damsefly, so for me this concept is worth to discuss.
Or maybe other concept (probably too difficult to create). We have got 3 lines in game table. SoFr should allow for us putting creatures where we want and in 1st line creatures gain 50% attack (and maybe lose 50% HP), in 2nd gains avoid shield, in 3rd line evading if it is Air creature. In addition You can shuffle places but only for Air creatures if new SoFr comes into a game (fantastic thing for tactic).
Post by: OldTrees on March 29, 2012, 04:48:46 am
I still think that random effect kills this Shard. And why it is only 20%? This shard has got sense only when we have 6 SoFr in 30 cards deck. 1-3 SoFr in deck do nothing. It is big problem.
Agreed, rares should be designed to be useful even with few copies.
Concept Zso_Zso is good, but still too random. I prefer something like Flooding - SoFr generate Fog and all creatures in fog gain critical hit + evading if Air.
1 SoFr - maybe 50% places with fog (random, but we can see where is fog so we can create new tactic for game) or places 6-23 etc. More SoFr - more places with fog.
I like this variant. It reduces the randomness to a more reasonable amount while still preserving the core mechanics.
Or maybe other concept (probably too difficult to create). We have got 3 lines in game table. SoFr should allow for us putting creatures where we want and in 1st line creatures gain 50% attack (and maybe lose 50% HP), in 2nd gains avoid shield, in 3rd line evading if it is Air creature. In addition You can shuffle places but only for Air creatures if new SoFr comes into a game (fantastic thing for tactic).
I think this would be better as an Air card.
Post by: EvilDeathX on March 30, 2012, 06:55:32 pm
Post by: aceben3 on March 31, 2012, 11:10:16 am
Post by: RRQJ on April 15, 2012, 08:16:55 pm
Post by: bogtro on April 15, 2012, 08:18:45 pm
Post by: Jocko on April 15, 2012, 11:14:34 pm
Post by: Atico on April 16, 2012, 07:31:16 am
Random kills this card. When effect will not be random then this card will be good. Then I will use a strategy and tactic. Now I can't plan nothing.
What is more - this Shard is probably too expensive. SoW cost 1 and often works better than SoFr. 3 quantum for only 25% chance - hmmm, we should discuss here. SkyBlitz cost 8, gives 100% chance, 100% attack more and it is as one card (so You have more space in deck with SkyBlitz).
And last problem - this card is poor when You haven't got 5-6 SoFr in deck. With 2-3 SoFr which I test this Shard really helps me in maybe 5-10% games and I lose 1 game because of this card (Damseflies avoid shield every turn, Wyrm hit BoneWall....). So it isn't worth to have it in deck, it is better to put other cards - like SkyBlitz. Probably SoFr like Flooding will be better (fog in game area).
I like idea of this card, so I return to test it with 6 SoFr. Now it is poor card for me...
Post by: Jenkar on April 17, 2012, 08:47:03 am
Your table says that unupped one sells at a higher cost than the upped one.Blump. It did in trainer :v
Post by: Max Fire on April 20, 2012, 01:57:40 pm
If your mark is :air ?
If the creature is :air ?
Post by: Absol on April 20, 2012, 02:03:49 pm
It's maybe a supid question but what means "if :air" ?Airborne creatures gain a 25% chance (per shards, stackable) to critically hit: (which is) damage +50%, (and) ignores shield effects,
If your mark is :air ?
If the creature is :air ?
and (25% chance to) evade targeting if :air (only if the airborne creature is also :air creature)
Also clarifies a few questions.
Post by: furballdn on April 28, 2012, 12:56:21 am
Post by: Chapuz on May 29, 2012, 01:50:12 am
Post by: eNeutrino on June 13, 2012, 12:00:57 pm
It's maybe a supid question but what means "if :air" ?Airborne creatures gain a 25% chance (per shards, stackable) to critically hit: (which is) damage +50%, (and) ignores shield effects,
If your mark is :air ?
If the creature is :air ?
and (25% chance to) evade targeting if :air (only if the airborne creature is also :air creature)
Also clarifies a few questions.
Um, I've actually been wondering this too. The evade-targeting effect didn't seem to be discussed much, and also everyone has been speaking as though the ignore-shields and crit-strike effects work on non- :air creatures as well.
So is this the actual effect?
Say you have n SoFr:
- your airborne creatures have a .25*n chance of doing 1.5x damage AND ignoring shields
- your airborne :air creatures evade targeting
Post by: Jenkar on June 13, 2012, 12:13:56 pm
Der.It's maybe a supid question but what means "if :air" ?Airborne creatures gain a 25% chance (per shards, stackable) to critically hit: (which is) damage +50%, (and) ignores shield effects,
If your mark is :air ?
If the creature is :air ?
and (25% chance to) evade targeting if :air (only if the airborne creature is also :air creature)
Also clarifies a few questions.
Um, I've actually been wondering this too. The evade-targeting effect didn't seem to be discussed much, and also everyone has been speaking as though the ignore-shields and crit-strike effects work on non- :air creatures as well.
So is this the actual effect?
Say you have n SoFr:
- your airborne creatures have a .25*n chance of doing 1.5x damage AND ignoring shields
- your airborne :air creatures have a .25*n chance of evading targeting
Post by: AP579 on June 13, 2012, 01:39:38 pm
Post by: Jenkar on June 13, 2012, 01:42:43 pm
So 4 is mass quint for air creatures.That is vulnerable to PC & mass CC.
Post by: Absol on June 13, 2012, 01:43:51 pm
So 4 is mass quint for air creatures.Still fail against Mass CC.
Fun fact: "So 4" sounds like "SoFr".
Post by: furballdn on June 13, 2012, 06:48:43 pm
Post by: Mammalman on July 25, 2012, 01:13:42 am
so you can actually crit from the SoFree and do extra dmg to yourself via reflection using psions or SoWisdoms. this makes no more sense to me than why you can lobo momentum but not adrenaline, cuz one is 'active' and the other is 'passive'....
Post by: furballdn on July 25, 2012, 01:33:44 am
apparently 'ignores shields' from the card text does not apply to the reflective property of jade/reflective shields. oh :(The spell damage takes priority over the shield bypass of freedom.
so you can actually crit from the SoFree and do extra dmg to yourself via reflection using psions or SoWisdoms. this makes no more sense to me than why you can lobo momentum but not adrenaline, cuz one is 'active' and the other is 'passive'....
Post by: I8SumOrangesNItWasK on August 21, 2012, 04:38:35 am
In other words, if I ignore the shield, then does that mean I'll ALSO deal 1.5x damage AND also evade targetting the next turn?
This is making us pay way too close attention to the quick animation sequence to see which cards passed the shield and did extra damage, and which didn't (so we don't waste our card's turn by targetting). Maybe make them untargettable so it's not even an option to target them?
Post by: furballdn on September 01, 2012, 04:03:25 am
When being targetted, and the creature is an airborne :air creature, it has a 25% of dodging.
The dodging and critical hits aren't related.
Also of note:
Non airborne :air creatures do not get dodge bonus.
Post by: deidmann on December 12, 2012, 05:51:35 pm
Chance of critical hit and ignoring shield = you move so fast your opponent let his guard down.
Chance of dodging attack/spell if airborne = harder to hit, prone to miss, speed of creature doesn't help.
Post by: willng3 on December 12, 2012, 06:05:19 pm
Post by: deidmann on December 12, 2012, 06:22:24 pm
I think the main reasoning behind the name was to make it more of a virtue (that was a theme among the new Shards at the time). Velocity might make more sense from a technical standpoint, but it doesn't make sense as a virtue.
Hmm. I've looked at some virtues and didn't see freedom listed anywhere. However I found a term which is an actual virtue.
Diligence could be interpreted as:
hard work for improving reflexes, careful analyzing to strike a vulnerable part. Stacked cards would represent better practice for the virtue.
As for the airborne bonus: birds and other flying animals keep an eye on their surrounding and will flee if danger is present.
Post by: eaglgenes101 on December 17, 2012, 06:34:36 am
Post by: Jenkar on December 19, 2012, 10:32:39 pm
Discuss.
Post by: Rutarete on December 19, 2012, 11:01:18 pm
Post by: Annele on December 19, 2012, 11:10:15 pm
Post by: furballdn on December 20, 2012, 02:23:32 am
Post by: Cunning_Wish on December 20, 2012, 02:19:25 pm
Post by: willng3 on December 21, 2012, 09:00:05 am
I'd bump the cost up by 2 at least. Haven't tested it unupped.
Post by: xsindomanx on May 18, 2013, 12:50:12 am
Post by: CuCN on May 18, 2013, 02:49:03 am
Post by: traceurling on May 18, 2013, 05:26:12 am
Post by: Calindu on May 18, 2013, 05:39:38 am
Shard of dexterity sounds like a good name; speed for evasion/bypassing shields and also provides skill for critical strikes
(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRjKD1jhmBQlW6m9VelB0hHd39pLR4ssxP1nTJA7uWvEGFvst-t)
Post by: andre_wb on May 29, 2013, 12:57:47 am
Post by: Luminouskun on October 03, 2013, 02:45:05 pm
Post by: timetock on October 04, 2013, 04:30:45 am
I believe that mono air deck with shard of freedom is currently the most common strategy in platinum arena.
It's hard to see a deck that gets an air card and DOESN'T use SoF, but then I would think most decks go for rainbow rushes or :time :darkness Ghostmare. I hate Ghostmare.
Post by: Gunthar on February 11, 2015, 03:03:59 pm
Post by: Espithel on February 11, 2015, 03:05:08 pm
If the creature is airborne and of the air element, it deals extra damage, evades shields, and evades targeting.
It's a weirdly worded card. And a broken one, too.
Post by: benoit on February 12, 2015, 06:01:06 am
Just found out though that even 4 SoFre (100% protect) does not protect against mass CC like RoF, plague,etc.
The definition of immaterial is "can not be targeted" just like the definition of SoFre but immaterial creatures ARE immune to mass CC.
If a creature is airborne, it deals extra damage and evades shields.Why do you say "broken"?
If the creature is airborne and of the air element, it deals extra damage, evades shields, and evades targeting.
It's a weirdly worded card. And a broken one, too.
Post by: Treldon on February 12, 2015, 06:12:51 am
Post by: benoit on February 12, 2015, 06:38:30 am
Whenever you see Frozen say 'Broken' just read it as 'OP'I don't feel they are OP as "steal" is such a HUGE counter. I just don't play my SoFre against a :darkness rich deck.
Post by: serprex on February 12, 2015, 07:26:42 pm
Post by: AD TienzuStorm on February 13, 2015, 02:00:31 am
Post by: CrockettRocket on February 13, 2015, 02:27:39 am
What is the chance that :air creatures evade targeting? 50%? And do they evade you as well as the opponent, or is it only affecting the opponent?With 1 sofree its 50%, 2 sofree its 50% 3 is 75% 4 is 100% 5 is 100% 6 is 100%. 5 and 6 are protectors from PC but don't do anything really
Post by: flyingcat on February 13, 2015, 02:31:43 am
Post by: AD TienzuStorm on February 13, 2015, 02:38:55 am
Post by: CrockettRocket on February 13, 2015, 02:40:19 am
Post by: Espithel on February 13, 2015, 04:26:43 pm
What is the chance that :air creatures evade targeting? 50%? And do they evade you as well as the opponent, or is it only affecting the opponent?With 1 sofree its 50%, 2 sofree its 50% 3 is 75% 4 is 100% 5 is 100% 6 is 100%. 5 and 6 are protectors from PC but don't do anything really
Five and six are 125% and 150%.
Yes, that matters. >:U
Post by: laelin on August 25, 2015, 10:36:57 pm
Post by: Monox D. I-Fly on September 06, 2015, 07:18:58 am
just found out that it doesn't protect airborn creatures of other elements besides air, welp back to the drawing board.
Even though it's just :air, I think it's already OP. With 4 Shard of Freedom, your :air creatures can't be targetted at all.
Post by: OdinVanguard on April 19, 2017, 08:06:52 pm
Interesting to see that this does not seem to apply to pandemonium though.
Has anyone tested this again recently?
Post by: worldwideweb3 on April 19, 2017, 08:12:09 pm
IIRC some mass CC effects still work. I believe I've seen RoF take out a field of :air creatures with 4+ SoFr in play.
Interesting to see that this does not seem to apply to pandemonium though.
Has anyone tested this again recently?
All mass cc, including pandemonium, affect air creatures under sofree.