*Author

Offline traceurling

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 192
  • Country: us
  • Reputation Power: 3
  • traceurling is a Spark waiting for a buff.
  • Burn Bright Fiery Might
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 4th Birthday Cake
Re: Lightning | Thunderbolt http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=1985.msg1071520#msg1071520
« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2013, 08:15:53 pm »
That's cool I never noticed the spark before
Anyways, I feel like this card should be OP with 5 damage for 1 :aether but at the same time, it just doesn't feel
OP...anyone wanna explain why it is/isn't overpowered?
[War]: :fire Shards Beta |
[Guild]: :fire
:fire Burn The World :fire

Offline xsindomanx

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 290
  • Country: ca
  • Reputation Power: 4
  • xsindomanx is a Spark waiting for a buff.
  • New to Elements
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 4th Birthday Cake
Re: Lightning | Thunderbolt http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=1985.msg1071572#msg1071572
« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2013, 10:24:17 pm »

Looks weaker compared to thunderbolt, but if the user has anywhere between 20 - 75 quarta, it's a lot more powerful.


Same as fire lance, with added ability to freeze.


Could be said to be underpowered compared to thunderstorm, but has added ability to instantly kill frozen creature or weapon.
Fire guild member

Offline Higurashi

  • Administrator
  • ********
  • Posts: 7835
  • Country: no
  • Reputation Power: 103
  • Higurashi is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.Higurashi is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.Higurashi is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.Higurashi is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.Higurashi is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.Higurashi is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.Higurashi is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.Higurashi is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.Higurashi is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.Higurashi is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.Higurashi is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.Higurashi is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.Higurashi is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.Higurashi is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.Higurashi is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.
  • ∆ther in ∆ternum enim ∆quilibrio
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 13th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 12th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 11th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 10th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 9th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 8th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 7th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 6th Birthday CakeWinner of Team PvP #6Slice of Elements 5th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament WinnerFalse Gods Competition: Reloaded - WinnerSlice of Elements 4th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 3rd Birthday Cake4th Trials - Master of Aether3rd Trials - Master of AetherWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerSlice of Elements 2nd Birthday Cake
Re: Lightning | Thunderbolt http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=1985.msg1071619#msg1071619
« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2013, 12:32:30 am »
That's cool I never noticed the spark before
Anyways, I feel like this card should be OP with 5 damage for 1 :aether but at the same time, it just doesn't feel
OP...anyone wanna explain why it is/isn't overpowered?
As far as CC goes, it's the strongest single-target one in most metas. War being the most notable one. For a more direct comparison, you should compare this to Gravity Pull and Basilisk Blood: the other two very strong single-target CC spells.

GP has the downside of slowing down your own offence, but it can kill -anything-. Unfortunately the latter point is normally useless as what you want to kill rarely has much HP. Most high attackers are fragile, and most Dragons only have 5 HP (which is why Shockwave is a lot less relevant in the likes of War, by the by). The caveat of needing attackers is another huge one, because stalls normally do not run much of that.

BB stops -anything- for a whopping 6 turns. Of course, it doesn't die. That's an obvious huge downside.

The three bolts (includes Drain Life) have more utility, and thus stalls can be built around them, but Lightning deals the most damage for such a very low cost, which makes it practical in Bone Wall decks and all kinds of stalls. These decks need a fast response to a fast meta where you have to deal with a first turn Golem or a second/third turn Shrieker/Dragon. If you don't have the quanta, you're in big trouble, so 2 :aether is just the ticket.

Why isn't it OP? Mostly because there are a few things that stop a rush even harder.
Spoiler for examples:







A few examples, with Pandemonium being the one closest at hand. For 3 :entropy, you're going to deal, on average, 3.2 damage to every creature on the board. That's more than Rain of Fire for a cost that's only 1 more than Lightning. As for the perms.. they can be stopped, which is a plus for Lightning, but they remain the biggest obstacles for an offence-oriented deck. You need PC in most metas to get anywhere because perms are so very powerful. Add Sanctuary to any of the examples I've given and you have a few well used stalls. Lightning has another thing going for it too though: it's in the same element as Dim Shield.

In the end, Lightning is the most used (and thus probably the most practical) single-target CC in the game, but it's still only single-target and you can still only pack 6 of them. Some say it's still OP and would like a cost increase of 1 :aether. To be honest, it wouldn't have much of an effect outside of Pendulum-Nova rushbows, and it's not impossible it deserves it since it hits the sweet spot of 5 HP.

In the upped meta it's not quite as common because most Dragons get more HP, but it remains very key in stopping decks that are now even faster. I wouldn't call it anywhere near OP in the upped meta regardless.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2013, 12:44:32 am by Higurashi »
:aether  http://elementscommunity.org/forum/guilds/991-thunderbolts-ho!-991/ :aether
Aether is the prime Element present in all things, providing space, connection and balance for all Elements to exist.
Aether represents the sense of joy and union, and the ultimate potential of all things.

Offline furballdn

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7573
  • Reputation Power: 86
  • furballdn is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.furballdn is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.furballdn is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.furballdn is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.furballdn is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.furballdn is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.furballdn is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.furballdn is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.furballdn is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.furballdn is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.furballdn is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.furballdn is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.furballdn is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.furballdn is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.furballdn is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.
  • Facetious trollnotmod
  • Awards: Epic 3 Card Winner - Clockwork GolemBest Recruiter of FriendsBest JournalistBest Chat PainterBattle - Slayer of The Great ChimeraBest Crafted Relic of Other
Re: Lightning | Thunderbolt http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=1985.msg1071700#msg1071700
« Reply #15 on: May 19, 2013, 06:20:05 am »
In the upped meta it's not quite as common because most Dragons get more HP, but it remains very key in stopping decks that are now even faster. I wouldn't call it anywhere near OP in the upped meta regardless.
I disagree a bit with this statement. It isn't because of the prevalence of dragons in the upped meta, (liststats has most of the dragons in the upped environment near the bottom), but because the upped environment is just faster. More, faster creatures, and lightning just doesn't cut it as the awesome destroyer it is in unupped. It's still decent in the upped meta, but the pace is just much faster so players will often be packing faster and more powerful cards. Lightning drops from 2384k, near the top of the uu meta, to 548k in the u meta where it's near the very bottom.

Offline Higurashi

  • Administrator
  • ********
  • Posts: 7835
  • Country: no
  • Reputation Power: 103
  • Higurashi is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.Higurashi is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.Higurashi is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.Higurashi is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.Higurashi is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.Higurashi is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.Higurashi is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.Higurashi is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.Higurashi is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.Higurashi is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.Higurashi is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.Higurashi is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.Higurashi is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.Higurashi is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.Higurashi is a mythical and divine giver of immortality, one of the Turquoise Nymphs.
  • ∆ther in ∆ternum enim ∆quilibrio
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 13th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 12th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 11th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 10th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 9th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 8th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 7th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 6th Birthday CakeWinner of Team PvP #6Slice of Elements 5th Birthday CakeWeekly Tournament WinnerFalse Gods Competition: Reloaded - WinnerSlice of Elements 4th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 3rd Birthday Cake4th Trials - Master of Aether3rd Trials - Master of AetherWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerWeekly Tournament WinnerSlice of Elements 2nd Birthday Cake
Re: Lightning | Thunderbolt http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=1985.msg1071711#msg1071711
« Reply #16 on: May 19, 2013, 08:10:00 am »
Speed actually makes it more necessary because decks invest in their strategies more. Because a rush is so much more effective, your domin has to be faster too. Similarly, stalls invest even more in card advantage and at the same time have to pack more fast responses to rushes. The real reason single-target spells see less use is because exactly this reason: combating rushes takes more effort and thus CC like Pande and SoFo+GF is more common. Furthermore, creatures have more HP in general, not just Dragons. Things like Forest Spectre get above 5 HP faster and the likes of Abyss Crawler/Archangel is common. Also Chaos Power, etc.

Oh, and.. I wouldn't quote stats like the bible. PvP1 and 2 don't have any meta beyond upped decks rushing a lot against unupped ones in PvP2 (newbies trying their luck).
« Last Edit: May 19, 2013, 08:12:01 am by Higurashi »
:aether  http://elementscommunity.org/forum/guilds/991-thunderbolts-ho!-991/ :aether
Aether is the prime Element present in all things, providing space, connection and balance for all Elements to exist.
Aether represents the sense of joy and union, and the ultimate potential of all things.

Offline Tectonics

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 20
  • Country: ph
  • Reputation Power: 1
  • Tectonics is a Spark waiting for a buff.
  • I enjoy Card Games.
Re: Lightning | Thunderbolt http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=1985.msg1103125#msg1103125
« Reply #17 on: October 14, 2013, 03:04:05 am »
As I see, Lightning  is to overpowered. Maybe increase the cost by one  :aether? At least that way, it's more balanced out?
"Uncharted Depths"
"Unbounded Hopes"
"Unfathomable Mysteries"

Offline timetock

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 935
  • Country: cn
  • Reputation Power: 12
  • timetock is taking their first peeks out of the Antlion's burrow.timetock is taking their first peeks out of the Antlion's burrow.
  • wow much infinity wow
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 5th Birthday Cake
Re: Lightning | Thunderbolt http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=1985.msg1103127#msg1103127
« Reply #18 on: October 14, 2013, 03:09:54 am »
It's fine the way it is. in the unupped meta it's strong, in the upped meta it's still pretty good. Most people would think it's fine the way it is in the way it has strong cc but doesn't kill everything.

Offline Monox D. I-Fly

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1143
  • Country: id
  • Reputation Power: 2
  • Monox D. I-Fly is a Spark waiting for a buff.
  • Always use Water element in any CCGs
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 11th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 7th Birthday Cake
Re: Lightning | Thunderbolt http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=1985.msg1223691#msg1223691
« Reply #19 on: February 14, 2016, 06:26:35 am »
Same as fire lance, with added ability to freeze.

I am sure you mean Ice Lance.
My idealized elements cycle:
Water -> Fire -> Air -> Earth -> Lightning -> Metal -> Light -> Darkness -> Wood -> Water

Offline Treldon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1508
  • Country: hu
  • Reputation Power: 23
  • Treldon is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.Treldon is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.Treldon is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.Treldon is a Mummy waiting to discover the path to glory.
  • Do I have to?
  • Awards: 1st Place WC Winner: October 20152nd place Weekly Challenge Winner: September 2015Solved the Ruby Mansion MurderSlice of Elements 6th Birthday CakeGold Donor
Re: Lightning | Thunderbolt http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=1985.msg1223702#msg1223702
« Reply #20 on: February 14, 2016, 08:45:20 am »
Same as fire lance, with added ability to freeze.

I am sure you mean Ice Lance.

What's up with all the necro posts?
The one with answerable questions and questionable answers


10th Elements Council member == Brawl #4 :life Meaning of Life :life Artist == Brawl #5 :chroma A Toadally Newtral Team :chroma Artist

Offline Monox D. I-Fly

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1143
  • Country: id
  • Reputation Power: 2
  • Monox D. I-Fly is a Spark waiting for a buff.
  • Always use Water element in any CCGs
  • Awards: Slice of Elements 11th Birthday CakeSlice of Elements 7th Birthday Cake
Re: Lightning | Thunderbolt http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=1985.msg1223704#msg1223704
« Reply #21 on: February 14, 2016, 08:54:10 am »
Same as fire lance, with added ability to freeze.

I am sure you mean Ice Lance.

What's up with all the necro posts?
OCD which makes me can't resist the urge to comment?
My idealized elements cycle:
Water -> Fire -> Air -> Earth -> Lightning -> Metal -> Light -> Darkness -> Wood -> Water

 

anything
blarg: